Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[31550]

I think you're probably correct but I don't know how you can prove it. The problem is the media article states it was in Kendall.

The media is not an infallible source. Besides the caption, there is nothing in that '3rd birthday' photograph to suggest it was taken anywhere else than the fosters house, where we know William was on his 3rd birthday. There is no evidence that William or the fosters visited FGM any time between Opa's death and William's disappearance AFAIK. So any theory that the verandah photographs may have been taken at another time would need to provide evidence that this happened: E.g. phone ping, neighbour's eyewitness testimony, other photographs with verifiable timestamps, electronic transactions, CCTV footage etc.

 

[Underarrest_]

What I have seen is this photo of William opening his birthday presents. The article states it was at his grandmothers. Not sure whether it is true or even the month.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...shocking-discovery-house-person-interest.html

Were you meaning from the photo/caption? William’s birthday is the 26th of June.

 

[truecrimepath]

yes, in know his birthday. Is any part of the caption correct?

 

[Underarrest_]

yes, in know his birthday. Is any part of the caption correct?

I’m leaning with others that if this photo is of him opening his presents on his birthday, it’s in Sydney.
FGM’s house is tiled then carpeted throughout.
The other possibility is the media have just selected any photo with the caption.
I’ve added a photo of him with his plane and another of him with his cake on his birthday.

 

[Wallace52]

I’m leaning with others that if this photo is of him opening his presents on his birthday, it’s in Sydney.
FGM’s house is tiled then carpeted throughout.
The other possibility is the media have just selected any photo with the caption.
I’ve added a photo of him with his plane and another of him with his cake on his birthday.

If you see the whole picture (the aeroplane photo) you will see the fosters crappy art work / sculptures in the background and it will be very obvious whose house it is. It’s the Sydney house belonging to JS and SD before they moved. Their taste in art is un-mistakable. IMO

 

[Underarrest_]

If you see the whole picture (the aeroplane photo) you will see the fosters crappy art work / sculptures in the background and it will be very obvious whose house it is. It’s the Sydney house belonging to JS and SD before they moved. Their taste in art is un-mistakable. IMO

Yes and I think I can just see a part of the timber flooring behind him in the other photo truecrimepath added but could be mistaken.
I think the media have just picked any photo to go with their caption. Bit confusing.

 

[Wallace52]

Yes and I think I can just see a part of the timber flooring behind him in the other photo truecrimepath added but could be mistaken.
I think the media have just picked any photo to go with their caption. Bit confusing.

As a blanket statement: I’m not holding the media to a very high standard in the case of William Tyrrell. There are some exceptions, of course.

On the whole, I prefer to wait for the inquest, for the facts and then if I can’t make it down to Lindcombe in person, I plan to seek out a factual court reporter online such as Miklos Bolza, whom I think writes for the AAP, and read his yarns over that time for an accurate update of the proceedings. You get to know over time who the sensationalist journos are, and who’s just presenting the facts of the proceedings.

IMO

I’m sick of reading about the spin and the blame games regarding this case. It’s fatiguing and I just want real answers.

 

[js47]

Have you never dried a towel by hanging it over a large item with wheels? lol

Not in that house the washing was hung on the line.

 

[js47]

Ok. But the missing pieces are that FD was asked about how WT went missing. Answer: "He went off balcony in search of FF" or similar

It also ignores 2 neighbours hearing children playing before and after 9. You say they are wrong or created false memory. I question that especially when one corroborates the other and FD corroborates both.

FD wouldn't have known 7.30 v 8.30. So maybe most of events as described happened but much earlier. But it still doesn't explain what neighbours heard and it should. Unless of course what they heard was after WT was taken away by FF and it was one child not two. Mistaken.

There is conjecture about sequence especially the bike riding. Breakfast was after the bike rides supposedly. So too the verandah. But they aren't dressed like that on the verandah shots. FD still wearing dressing gown. Seems wrong

I am confused the bike riding was before breakfast? I thought they woke Gran because they were hungry? I don’t think Gran would watch bike riding before making breakfast plus why didn’t the neighbours say they heard kids playing twice before and after breakfast?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I am confused the bike riding was before breakfast? I thought they woke Gran because they were hungry? I don’t think Gran would watch bike riding before making breakfast plus why didn’t the neighbours say they heard kids playing twice before and after breakfast?

The FGM walk through she doesn't even mention bike riding. In the Where's Willian Tyrrell podcast they say that bike riding happened first AND that FGM was there with FM and kids. Very odd.

Bear in mind though that FM says that UTurn car did U turn and FD questioned FM about it all in presence of FGM. I'm thinking this was a deception designed to paint a story corroborated that there was a strange man in a car watching them.. Who knows when it happened

 

[js47]

I’m not sure about staged? I’d like to know more about the relationship between foster mum and her mother.
Was FM trying to prove to her own mother what a wonderful mother she could be , hands on etc and grandma could see right through it and was ignoring her? If any of the timeline of the morning is true , I think FM was doing just this.

The relation ship seemed a bit rocky as FM explained to FGM about little boys behaviour. Again I mention William was unsettled that morning. That is why I wonder if FM took William for a drive to discipline him in some form out of FGM hearing.

 

[Sammy 72]

Prove it was taken at 9.30.Take some time It can't be taken at 7.30, I agree. I have provided the sun direction in previous posts. It is accurate see below 7.30 was probably the time it was uploaded. Check it if you must using Suncalc etc.

I provide the photos for your convenienceView attachment 2137005

View attachment 2137007



View attachment 2137009




By the way you got the direction of the sun on Williams face correct. The problem of your analysis previously was the actual direction of the sun (expected) at that time. You have to explain the pink water bottle shadow. ie reflected light, but there is no bright object in the yard. I have looked. I find this image difficult for one very important reason and it is how I know it is a fake.

truecrimepath just putting it out there that the photo was taken on the 1st August 2014 at 2.05pm are you able to prove that it wasn't ?
No disrespect

 

[truecrimepath]

With due respect. I know you're taking the piss. I will give you a serious answer.

Here is the sun at 1.38 that day. You are closer than you think for this photo. Certainly closer than 9.30am




I am not the one claiming the photo is taken at the 9.30 as if this is definitive. That's the problem I have with the poster. I find the photos highly complex in determining time. We know they were all taken about the same time. To determine the exact time I don't think is possible.

The problem with the photo is the light on the back wall and the shadow of the pink water bottle. There is also a shadow from the verandah post that is missing. Looking at the shadow from both the flower planter pot on the right and the pink water bottle you get a direction close to your time and date.

In reality at 9.30am on the 12th September it was overcast. There is no secondary light source in the northerly direction (reflection). There should be no shadows at all, there should not be bright light on the wall. This is causing reflections on the verandah floor. The problem is there is definite shadows and reflections. I came to the conclusion it was not taken that morning at all. It may have been photoshopped with a filter to give this appearance. Then ask yourself why would you photoshop the image? It does not make sense.

 

[truecrimepath]

truecrimepath just putting it out there that the photo was taken on the 1st August 2014 at 2.05pm are you able to prove that it wasn't ?
No disrespect

see response

 

[Lady O]

With due respect. I know you're taking the piss. I will give you a serious answer.

Here is the sun at 1.38 that day. You are closer than you think for this photo. Certainly closer than 9.30am

View attachment 2137757


I am not the one claiming the photo is taken at the 9.30 as if this is definitive. That's the problem I have with the poster. I find the photos highly complex in determining time. We know they were all taken about the same time. To determine the exact time I don't think is possible.

The problem with the photo is the light on the back wall and the shadow of the pink water bottle. There is also a shadow from the verandah post that is missing. Looking at the shadow from both the flower planter pot on the right and the pink water bottle you get a direction close to your time and date.

In reality at 9.30am on the 12th September it was overcast. There is no secondary light source in the northerly direction (reflection). There should be no shadows at all, there should not be bright light on the wall. This is causing reflections on the verandah floor. The problem is there is definite shadows and reflections. I came to the conclusion it was not taken that morning at all. It may have been photoshopped with a filter to give this appearance. Then ask yourself why would you photoshop the image? It does not make sense.

The Michelle White photo was taken from the same direction of the sun indicated on your earlier post. Can you see that the sunlight would have been hitting the back wall of the verandah?

 

[stormbird]

"Four witnesses make shocking claim about William Tyrrell investigation", news.com.au, 11 Oct 2024

https://www.news.com.au/national/cr...n/news-story/b513716043347841f5ff0a026e5c384a

 

[31550]

"Four witnesses make shocking claim about William Tyrrell investigation", news.com.au, 11 Oct 2024

https://www.news.com.au/national/cr...n/news-story/b513716043347841f5ff0a026e5c384a

“But I now look back and I’m terrified that, in trying to explain something one way and being recorded, that my words can be skewed to something that is not true.”​

​

Another witness described the questioning as being “shocking to me and despicable”.​

​

“I tried not to offer any information other than yes and no, because I just thought, anything I say, they’re going to hang me or hang the foster mother with it.”​

​

If you say exactly what you mean, and tell the truth, there is no way your words can be 'skewed to something that is not true'.

If you think "they are going to hang me or hang the FM", then that is because the truth you are telling actually implicates you, or implicates the FM. You can't be hanged unless they have something to hang you on.

I don't know who the '4 witnesses' are in this case, but am guessing that one is MW.

 

[Lady O]

"Four witnesses make shocking claim about William Tyrrell investigation", news.com.au, 11 Oct 2024

https://www.news.com.au/national/cr...n/news-story/b513716043347841f5ff0a026e5c384a

Why would the witnesses want a transcript, unless it is to "remind" them of what they said?

 

[BFew]

The Michelle White photo was taken from the same direction of the sun indicated on your earlier post. Can you see that the sunlight would have been hitting the back wall of the verandah?
View attachment 2137807

What about the possibility of artificial light being used to light up the photo-shoot?
I'm pretty sure we went over this years ago in here.

 

[truecrimepath]

The Michelle White photo was taken from the same direction of the sun indicated on your earlier post. Can you see that the sunlight would have been hitting the back wall of the verandah?
View attachment 2137807

Given that you are refusing to acknowledge the shadow of the verandah post on the flower planter box and the fact it has been moved, I am not sure I should bother. The fact there is no light on the facing walls in your photo puts the time at about 3.15 pm on the 13th September, 2014. My previous post was on the 1st August. The sun direction changes enormously by date.

Why did you make this up? It's not even the same direction. LOL.

 

[truecrimepath]

What about the possibility of artificial light being used to light up the photo-shoot?
I'm pretty sure we went over this years ago in here.

That is possible, but we can't see a light source. The light source would have to be set up outside at right angles to the photos (to the north). Given most people on this thread deny there is a shadow on the flower planter box and that it has changed dramatically, I am not sure it's worth discussing.

 

[Underarrest_]

“But I now look back and I’m terrified that, in trying to explain something one way and being recorded, that my words can be skewed to something that is not true.”​

​

Another witness described the questioning as being “shocking to me and despicable”.​

​

“I tried not to offer any information other than yes and no, because I just thought, anything I say, they’re going to hang me or hang the foster mother with it.”​

​

If you say exactly what you mean, and tell the truth, there is no way your words can be 'skewed to something that is not true'.

If you think "they are going to hang me or hang the FM", then that is because the truth you are telling actually implicates you, or implicates the FM. You can't be hanged unless they have something to hang you on.

I don't know who the '4 witnesses' are in this case, but am guessing that one is MW.

Separate emails show another witness was told the detective leading the investigation into William’s disappearance, David Laidlaw had “conferred” with Ms Grahame.

“Her Honour stated that … no one will be provided with a copy of their respective statements or interviews until further notice,” this witness was told.

When this witness contacted the coroner’s court, they received a written reply saying, “Deputy State Coroner Grahame did not direct Police to conduct an interview with you.

“There is no transcript of that interview on the Coroner’s file and the Court is not aware if a transcript exists.”

I think a big issue is that they’ve been told this is in the Coroner’s hands and then been told by the Coroner’s court it’s not.
Why are they unable to see a copy of their statement/transcript. (By law in NSW you even have a right to make a request to alter a statement for different reasons if you wish.)
It raises questions for the witnesses.

​

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Prove it was taken at 9.30.Take some time It can't be taken at 7.30, I agree. I have provided the sun direction in previous posts. It is accurate see below 7.30 was probably the time it was uploaded. Check it if you must using Suncalc etc.

I provide the photos for your convenienceView attachment 2137005

View attachment 2137007



View attachment 2137009




By the way you got the direction of the sun on Williams face correct. The problem of your analysis previously was the actual direction of the sun (expected) at that time. You have to explain the pink water bottle shadow. ie reflected light, but there is no bright object in the yard. I have looked. I find this image difficult for one very important reason and it is how I know it is a fake.

When weather is scattered clouds or even overcast it's not certain you have no shadows. What is certain is that the light source (the sun) is diffused. Shadows if they exist are less well defined and softer in a sense. Further diffusion occurs when the light source has to penetrate a polycarbonate roof as so here

I agree with Lady O. The place at which you have most reflective sun would be off the brick wall which is a north easterly facing wall. That will persist until the sun moves past horizontal to then hit the westerly aspects of the house. I know this from hard experience of FGM walk through where we were trying to determine time of day. That sun patch itself Ina sense confirms that light source though diffused was sufficient to create reflective sun on wall..ie scattered clouds perhaps

The sun patch (which isn't direct but reflective) is exactly where id expect it to be in mid morning on 12th.

if I recall correctly we did detailed analysis of the perspective of house as it sits on the block. My recollection suggests consensus was it was slightly north easterly aspect at rear ?? I'm not convinced the north line in your house diagram is correct. Further, I have no idea how you transposed the sun direction and placement of WT and photographer where they are. Was that guess work? You do realise I hope that if you have slight errors in transposition it affects the whole math outcomes and therefore conclusions become flawed especially where you are trying to ascertain a linear shadow direction on a 3" cylindrical object (water bottle) lying on the floor itself facing slightly south east in direction and in multiple diffused light

This is not trolling. I just think you are wrong on multiple facts

 

[truecrimepath]

Separate emails show another witness was told the detective leading the investigation into William’s disappearance, David Laidlaw had “conferred” with Ms Grahame.

“Her Honour stated that … no one will be provided with a copy of their respective statements or interviews until further notice,” this witness was told.

When this witness contacted the coroner’s court, they received a written reply saying, “Deputy State Coroner Grahame did not direct Police to conduct an interview with you.

“There is no transcript of that interview on the Coroner’s file and the Court is not aware if a transcript exists.”

I think a big issue is that they’ve been told this is in the Coroner’s hands and then been told by the Coroner’s court it’s not.
Why are they unable to see a copy of their statement/transcript. (By law in NSW you even have a right to make a request to alter a statement for different reasons if you wish.)
It raises questions for the witnesses.

​

When previously dealing with the Coroner, you quickly learn the Coroner has power over everything in connection of the case. The police are right but the coronial response is not exclusive. Directing an interview and withholding a statement are quite different. Michelle White can make a new statement if they wish.

 

[31550]

Separate emails show another witness was told the detective leading the investigation into William’s disappearance, David Laidlaw had “conferred” with Ms Grahame.

“Her Honour stated that … no one will be provided with a copy of their respective statements or interviews until further notice,” this witness was told.

When this witness contacted the coroner’s court, they received a written reply saying, “Deputy State Coroner Grahame did not direct Police to conduct an interview with you.

“There is no transcript of that interview on the Coroner’s file and the Court is not aware if a transcript exists.”

I think a big issue is that they’ve been told this is in the Coroner’s hands and then been told by the Coroner’s court it’s not.
Why are they unable to see a copy of their statement/transcript. (By law in NSW you even have a right to make a request to alter a statement for different reasons if you wish.)
It raises questions for the witnesses.

​

There is a difference between a statement and a transcript.
When a witness makes a formal statement, they sign it and acknowledge that it is true and correct, and have the opportunity to correct it if necessary, and get a copy.
When a witness is interviewed, the police may make a transcript, which is purely for the use of police, and they are not obliged to give it to the witness. If that transcript is subsequently used as evidence, the witness may challenge its accuracy, and it is unlikely to hold weight in court unless it is supported by a recording.
The bottom line is, if you are innocent and have nothing to hide, you should have no issue telling the truth to police, and having it recorded or transcribed.