Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Wallace52]

I feel like there’s so much pressure with this case. There’s a little boy who went missing at 3 years of age and 10 years on still waiting for answers.
I’m glad the inquest is next month. It’s been way too long.
I just hope there is some answers for William and his loved ones.

One would hope so.

 

[js47]

I disagree. It's evidence-tampering in a case involving a missing presumed dead person. So it's clearly perverting the course of justice. And perjury, as these photos have been tendered as evidence in a coronial inquest. Very serious charges.

Legally does it matter if the photos supposedly were taken before the disappearance but were given after the disappearance?

 

[js47]

Just because they are rich doesn't mean they aren't into penny-pinching or buying shitty old cheap stuff for other people. Wasn't the camera a planned present for FGM? But FF and FM had the latest iphones, new fancy 4WD. But skimp on stuff for other people like suitable food or appropriate toys for the children, Macca's as a 'treat''? Crappy polyester Spiderman suit from a Bali market? Made a big deal about 'new bikes' for the kids, but there was nowhere to actually ride them in Kendall, and they were just regular cheap kids bikes like you get at Kmart. And then they sell all their unwanted crap on Gumtree instead of donating to charity.

Did the kids attend private schools?

 

[BFew]

People/families who have multiple smart/spare phones, often have older model phones for their ALT/spare/burner phones.

Just to add.

Sometimes these spare phones work perfectly fine, except that their glass (back and/or front is badly damaged), or things like speakers or microphones don't work or don't work properly any more.

 

[Wallace52]

Just because they are rich doesn't mean they aren't into penny-pinching or buying shitty old cheap stuff for other people. Wasn't the camera a planned present for FGM? But FF and FM had the latest iphones, new fancy 4WD. But skimp on stuff for other people like suitable food or appropriate toys for the children, Macca's as a 'treat''? Crappy polyester Spiderman suit from a Bali market? Made a big deal about 'new bikes' for the kids, but there was nowhere to actually ride them in Kendall, and they were just regular cheap kids bikes like you get at Kmart. And then they sell all their unwanted crap on Gumtree instead of donating to charity.

They’ve sold a lot of L’s stuff on Gumtree.

In 2020 or 2021 the foster mother also took a lot of the foster child’s personal items from her room and didn’t give them back to her, [whilst they were still living with the FM] as a punishment. That was the basis of one of the arguments documented in the FM stalk/intimidate and assault case.

Circling back to the wedding: The helicopter would have been used by a friend of theirs who is super rich and is in the aviation industry. His wife is the lady in the green blouse who spoke for the fosters in Kendall after William’s disappearance. I won’t publish their names because I can’t be bothered.

Did the kids attend private schools?

No. They attended public school.

 

[shorsky]

shorsky, are you replying to my post? It doesn't seem to fit with what you're saying.

Sorry Stormbird, I was looking at his photo ( yet again) and I just don’t see him as ‘roaring’. . his face isn’t fierce enough imo ( or should I say inconsistent with the looks my little savage lions & tigers used to give )

 

[shorsky]

JS?

Interesting that Williams sister actually said nothing at all to the police on the actual day he disappeared.

JS is FF.

We are the mere public so we really have no idea what sister may have said. We did hear that she told Wendy Hudson that William went to find daddy.
Jubelin said she was spoken with by specialist officers in dealing with children, but we’ve not heard any thing from those conversations.

 

[shorsky]

I believe William’s sister that William was playing with her on the morning that he disappeared.

I don’t think the photos provided by the FM are legit, but I do think William was there at the house. IMO

To be honest I have no idea if he was wearing a Spider-Man costume or if he had shoes on when he disappeared. Once the photos are ruled out or discredited, then everything is on the table.

But I do believe the little girl. He was there that day, at some point.

I also want to mention:

If the photos are bull*, that means that JS also knows they are bull*.

Hence that’s possibly why police had him under surveillance for at least 1000 hours.

If there has been any sort of coverup, if the photos are not genuine, then that would suggest JS is somehow involved in the cover up. I’m not suggesting he’s involved in William’s disappearance, just in helping SD to protect her rear-end. And if so: He needs to speak up and be helpful.

I do believe he was there at some stage that morning.

I struggle with the ‘fall from balcony (I’d call it a veranda) cover-up’ theory - although I could see a fall possible.
There were lots of furniture pieces on that veranda and I think I saw a ladder in one photo (not sure when it was taken tho so may not be relevant)

IF a recently turned 3 year old was locked out there, would he try to climb over ?
Or would he initially cry & throw a tantrum - such that neighbours would have heard ( or was no one home at that time) ? Or were his tears ignored ?

But then FM told us that William didn’t like heights, didn’t want to go in the tree - too high mummy - so would he climb a balcony ? …. Or was that a diversionary statement

FF got home at approx 10.30am as was planned;
FM had already done a secret drive & then run up / down the street enlisting neighbours, then gone back to the house to meet FF
FF took off searching
Was FM still searching somewhere because she & FF eventually agreed she call 000 some 26 mins later (seems neighbour was still with her because she asked neighbour the street name on 000 call)
No idea where FGM was at this stage but she said she previously walked down to road in search of FM ….
or where L was, all of which I think is quite bizarre ( lost one child so forget about the other)
How long was taken searching around the outside of house, then inside the house, before taking FGM car for a drive.
(are we sure FGM did not know she was taking the car )
How long to drive to riding school & back ?
Then to enlist the neighbours


Similarly FF told that William was cautious and never ventured away from them - he’s not a wanderer he said . (was it also said that he was shy ?)

Maybe William would go down the driveway since it was familiar territory, supposedly riding their bikes there etc.. But would he stay there if he saw a stranger or a strange car - or would he high tail it back to secure territory.
Did he go down the driveway - was it suggested he go look for ‘daddy’ to quieten his restlessness
His sister said he went to find daddy
Abduction is always a possibility.
Neighbours heard a vehicle they thought was Postie - was that just because of the time & it’s the only vehicle they normally hear - Or was it due to the sound of the vehicle
Postie apparently confirmed as having done early run - was this a different Postie due to female postie’s issues with PS ?
Why did no one hear FF leave that morning - weren’t their kids up for school ?
Did FF leave the house after those kids left for school
Surely PS saw FF car when he went off on his walk - what time did he come back & was FF car there then
* I don’t think PS is responsible in any way, but I have a feeling he may know something. I think he way know stuff about a lot of things - possibly what Jubelin picked up on, but unfortunately he rubbed PS the wrong way, noting that this was an elderly man grieving the loss of his wife.


William’s scent supposedly wasn’t found outside the boundary - Or was it ‘not outside the driveway’ - These are the details I’d like to have.
Did they find L’s scent there too ?
One would expect that since the kids were said to have ridden their bikes on driveway that morning - on that steep driveway FFS! It’s a wonder they didn’t end up across the road ! No wonder William crashed into the garden, such a naughty boy at all of 3 years 2+ months !!


It’s just difficult to envisage an abduction occurring on a dead end street in a very quiet neighbourhood, with no one hearing or seeing anything - unless preplanned.

 

[shorsky]

He did text 3 minutes before he came home ( when he was just around the corner) or was that to play a game so the children could run out to him.
FM did delete the text.
Or had he come home before and left again, FM allegedly did ask if William was with him.

FGM did say that when he arrived home he already knew William was missing ‘she must’ve rung him or something

 

[shorsky]

My apologies - I’m on weird times at moment so catching up and it’s all my replies.

I’ll stop now

 

[31550]

Legally does it matter if the photos supposedly were taken before the disappearance but were given after the disappearance?

No. As long as they were given when asked for by police.
What matters is if they are genuine or not, and whether police have examined this properly.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

No. As long as they were given when asked for by police.
What matters is if they are genuine or not, and whether police have examined this properly.

I think that's right. The issue is whether something false (the photos) was used to deceive LE regarding time to then enable WTs body to be hidden.. But if a body is never found then the deception doesn't pervert justice because there is no proof they achieved that objective or were intended to that purpose.. Its possible that an abductor took W still if hiding of a body can't be proven. I think the photos only proves perversion of justice if it sits with other evidence that proves involvement in the hiding of WTs body. If nothing forensic is ever found the photo change though deceptive won't of itself prove perversion of justice.

 

[31550]

I think that's right. The issue is whether something false (the photos) was used to deceive LE regarding time to then enable WTs body to be hidden.. But if a body is never found then the deception doesn't pervert justice because there is no proof they achieved that objective or were intended to that purpose.. Its possible that an abductor took W still if hiding of a body can't be proven. I think the photos only proves perversion of justice if it sits with other evidence that proves involvement in the hiding of WTs body. If nothing forensic is ever found the photo change though deceptive won't of itself prove perversion of justice.

I don't agree entirely. Photos do not manipulate themselves. If they were proven to be false, then the statements made by the fosters are also patently false, and deliberate lies. They cannot claim they didn't know. Presumably statements have been sworn to. So, this is perjury, even if William wandered off and got lost. Furthermore, the court would need to consider the motivation for deliberate lying - and the only reasonable deduction would be that they deliberately lied to attempt to pervert the course of justice by hiding the truth.
Anyway, this is all hypothetical. Most likely police are of the view that the photos are genuine. If they haven't been able to prove otherwise in ten years, they are not going to now.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I don't agree entirely. Photos do not manipulate themselves. If they were proven to be false, then the statements made by the fosters are also patently false, and deliberate lies. They cannot claim they didn't know. Presumably statements have been sworn to. So, this is perjury, even if William wandered off and got lost. Furthermore, the court would need to consider the motivation for deliberate lying - and the only reasonable deduction would be that they deliberately lied to attempt to pervert the course of justice by hiding the truth.
Anyway, this is all hypothetical. Most likely police are of the view that the photos are genuine. If they haven't been able to prove otherwise in ten years, they are not going to now.

Yes there would be statements including sequence of events that link to photos at a time.

I suspect though that if the alternate hypothesis (an abduction) can't be disproved then it means the hiding of a body can't be proven so that the deception can be claimed to be innocent unrelated to THE crime. Kind of circular but I think they need both to be successful with charge. They are strongly persuasive to that end because I can't think of a single reason why they would be done innocently, but the onus is on DPP to prove beyond reasonable doubt and that entails by necessity being able to refute alternate hypotheses.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/alarming-results-as-cops-william-tyrrell-theory-tested/news-story/10eea04ebb4e42406c4ca6561ae81ee8

We know William was alive at 9.37am as that is when the last known photograph of him was taken.

There has been some controversy over this time but it has since been confirmed at the ongoing inquest into his disappearance.

 

[LRitz]

FF got home at approx 10.30am as was planned;
FM had already done a secret drive & then run up / down the street enlisting neighbours, then gone back to the house to meet FF
FF took off searching
Was FM still searching somewhere because she & FF eventually agreed she call 000 some 26 mins later (seems neighbour was still with her because she asked neighbour the street name on 000 call)
No idea where FGM was at this stage but she said she previously walked down to road in search of FM ….
or where L was, all of which I think is quite bizarre ( lost one child so forget about the other)
How long was taken searching around the outside of house, then inside the house, before taking FGM car for a drive.
(are we sure FGM did not know she was taking the car )
How long to drive to riding school & back ? .........

Lots of things don't add up in the immediate time after William disappears. The witness statements, walkthroughs, podcasts, media reports don't always line up. IMO- the more you try and unravel it the more confusing it comes and hard to grasp what is factual. At this point I don't think we know what happened.And futile trying to work it out. There should be a big"ALLEGED" before lots of these reports. Easy to see you had no idea where FGM was, as I think neither did she .

Did the FM ask FF when he returned did he have William? We only have the word of the FM and FF, so possible but not a fact.

If you compare the FM statement and FGM walkthrough, FM states she "walks" down the side of the house, can't see William and then comes .."back up the other side of the house"..." I walked all the way around. I went inside and walked through , calling out. Nothing"....
No mention of seeing any neighbours. But FGM says she follows FM. Hard to say how long after FM has gone that FGM follows. But she does not see FM, she does not say she hears FM calling for William. Then FGM says she sees female neighbour on the street. So if FGM followed soon she would have seen or heard FM. If FGM waited longer on patio she could have possibly seen FM as she went inside the house. And who saw the neighbour first FM of FGM? Waste of time thinking about it - IMO.

My references are previously posted - FM statement - quoted in inverted commas- and the longer walkthrough of FGM ( where she asks the police interviewer "which way would I have gone?" unbelievable. IMO- FM would not have been happy when she saw this).

 

[31550]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/alarming-results-as-cops-william-tyrrell-theory-tested/news-story/10eea04ebb4e42406c4ca6561ae81ee8

We know William was alive at 9.37am as that is when the last known photograph of him was taken.

There has been some controversy over this time but it has since been confirmed at the ongoing inquest into his disappearance.

The article is a pretty good summary, but it neglects to mention a few things:
The drive to the riding school is only a few minutes. It was possible to drive much further.
The claims that "he was only gone 5 minutes", and "not a wanderer" clearly have the intention to divert searchers to the immediate area around the FGM house, and not further afield. The immediate search did not extend as far as the riding school, as it was assumed William could not get that far on foot.
In 2014, most of the houses near that section of road were not built. There was bushland, and would be very quiet on a Friday morning, with few potential witnesses.
FM does not tell the 000 operator about the drive when asked, "Any idea where he might have gone". She says, "We've looked ...". She doesn't tell police about the drive immediately either - it's a couple of days before she mentions the drive and the truck driver.
There were alleged deleted text messages from the FM phone. It's possible she communicated with other people via instant messaging which could not be traced. The 'home in 5' text is alleged, but the content may have been different.
There is no explanation for the alleged question, "Have you got William?" to FF.
FGM said that when FF returned "he already knew! She would have phoned him or something."
Cups of tea were warm when police arrived. Did FM get FGM to make tea while she took the drive?
No police guard on the FGM property after around 9:30pm on the night.
When Wendy Hudson returned early the next morning FF was already "out looking for William" (on his own).
So, there is no alibi for either foster carer in the night or early morning - one of them may have gone out and moved the body or disposed of evidence.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/alarming-results-as-cops-william-tyrrell-theory-tested/news-story/10eea04ebb4e42406c4ca6561ae81ee8

We know William was alive at 9.37am as that is when the last known photograph of him was taken.

There has been some controversy over this time but it has since been confirmed at the ongoing inquest into his disappearance.

I've posted about this before. The probability that whatever happened did so immediately after the 9.37 photos is extremely low and highly convenient to LE theory. So much so I simply don't believe it happened like that. Why 10.40 to neighbours? I thought searches started at about 10.20? Because they happened before FF got home which was about 10.35 I had thought

9.37 time shifts the probabilities dramatically in favour of abduction now imo.. Critical now is whether or not cadaver scent was detected at the alleged site. If it wasn't then LE have got this entirely wrong. Cadaver indications accuracy tested to 97%. She didn't have time to hide elsewhere.

You can't place a body at the alleged site then move it next morning and not have cadaver scent in car .even this time later you would. Even at the site under water still you probably would. If they have NO cadaver indications in either imo they are wrong.

 

[truecrimepath]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/alarming-results-as-cops-william-tyrrell-theory-tested/news-story/10eea04ebb4e42406c4ca6561ae81ee8

We know William was alive at 9.37am as that is when the last known photograph of him was taken.

There has been some controversy over this time but it has since been confirmed at the ongoing inquest into his disappearance.

Can you show where it was confirmed. Not the newspaper.

 

[stormbird]

"The police theory", episode 4, Witness: William Tyrrell, 28 Oct 2024

https://omny.fm/shows/witness/the-police-theory-4

"Description: Does the police theory of what happened to William make sense?"

 

[stormbird]

The article is a pretty good summary, but it neglects to mention a few things:
The drive to the riding school is only a few minutes. It was possible to drive much further.
The claims that "he was only gone 5 minutes", and "not a wanderer" clearly have the intention to divert searchers to the immediate area around the FGM house, and not further afield. The immediate search did not extend as far as the riding school, as it was assumed William could not get that far on foot.
In 2014, most of the houses near that section of road were not built. There was bushland, and would be very quiet on a Friday morning, with few potential witnesses.
FM does not tell the 000 operator about the drive when asked, "Any idea where he might have gone". She says, "We've looked ...". She doesn't tell police about the drive immediately either - it's a couple of days before she mentions the drive and the truck driver.
There were alleged deleted text messages from the FM phone. It's possible she communicated with other people via instant messaging which could not be traced. The 'home in 5' text is alleged, but the content may have been different.
There is no explanation for the alleged question, "Have you got William?" to FF.
FGM said that when FF returned "he already knew! She would have phoned him or something."
Cups of tea were warm when police arrived. Did FM get FGM to make tea while she took the drive?
No police guard on the FGM property after around 9:30pm on the night.
When Wendy Hudson returned early the next morning FF was already "out looking for William" (on his own).
So, there is no alibi for either foster carer in the night or early morning - one of them may have gone out and moved the body or disposed of evidence.

Re: "No police guard on the FGM property after around 9:30pm on the night."
There was a police command post set up in the lower driveway - how is that not a police guard on the FGM property?

 

[31550]

Re: "No police guard on the FGM property after around 9:30pm on the night."
There was a police command post set up in the lower driveway - how is that not a police guard on the FGM property?

Was it manned overnight? I think not.
If it was manned, why would they have let FF go out in the morning alone?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The next inquest hearings are 4 nov to 8 Nov. This summary isn't what was confirmed by inquest but rather what media think. Ie their hypothesis. Is that possible?

Have we somehow missed confirmation by inquest that 9.37 was correct?

The logistics are just wrong. FGM and FM were talking on street before FF got home. they then started to search by foot then FM allegedly by car to then return at the time FF got home at 10.35 approx..the report 000 was 10.56. I don't believe they called 000 10 minutes after starting search. If they did and police didn't think that was Incriminating from the start then omg what a pack of.....

Michael Usher strikes again. He'll have them digging another hole soon. Pass me the shovel Box. No......get it yourself I'm still busy looking for Karlie.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

William Tyrrell foster mother's never before seen police interview

A police interview with William Tyrrell 's foster mother shows she gave confused and varying accounts of what happened on the toddler's last morning alive.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Good recent background. Importantly it refers to FM saying that the bike riding happened at about 9.am. this is second time I've seen this. We know from where's William Tyrrell podcasts that bike riding was first activity that day AND was when uTurn man happened with FD asking about him and FGM allegedly being present

We know that FGM says FF was gone by the time she got up. Where's William Tyrrell podcast says FGM was with FM and kids when bike riding happened (possibly explains the missed GO call) but FGM DIDN'T see FF even though he was captured on CCTV at approx 8.45. Huh???

Sooooo FGM possibly lied about not seeing FF before 9 and possibly also leaving in car just before/ perhaps even during the bike riding. Even worse is that they may have been on bikes when he left in his car!!! Yet FGM obsessively had to exclude FF and HIS CAR from being there. Interesting

Possible:

FF leaves at 8.40
FGM gets up after.
FM rings Spedding 9.05
They all go outside to ride bikes
Neighbours hear children playing just before and just after 9
Whilst bike riding GO rings and call missed 9.10

This sequence is consistent with 9.37 and the FGM error being just an error perhaps.

Uturn man could possibly be real and FA who had been asked to attend by GO to look at needs for GO repair job (theory). FA then seeks to intimidate GO by repeatedly implicating his property/ him.....as having WT body. The car didn't match RP car though..

 

[stormbird]

Was it manned overnight? I think not.
If it was manned, why would they have let FF go out in the morning alone?

js47 is former SES, so maybe they could tell us how the command posts work?

31550, who says FF went out in the morning alone? I think you claimed somewhere that Snr Cst Hudson said that, but what did she say and have you got her meaning right?

My guess is the command post would be staffed continously until the end, but I don't know. The searching continued through the nights, including on the Friday night, so IMO it would be strange if the command post was shut up overnight.

I copied the following quote years ago but now the article is paywalled, so I can't check whether anything has changed. I'm just trying to show the amount of activity at night, but I'll leave in the extra bits about weather etc for context. From "Child missing at Kendall", Port Macquarie News, 12 Sep 2014 updated 14 Sep.

https://www.portnews.com.au/story/2555404/child-missing-at-kendall/

Fri [12 Sep 2014], 5.15pm: The darkness is closing in, but the searchers are not going anywhere.
Police Inspector Mick Aldridge said PolAir has returned to Sydney after extensive aerial searches.
"But we're not leaving - we'll continue all the way through the night," he said.
Inspector Aldridge said police officers, SES volunteers and concerned residents will search the area, which includes state forests, during the night and as morning begins.
PolAir may be called tomorrow morning, and the Westpac Rescue Helicopter Service may also be contacted for help.
"We'll make those calls as the search goes on," Inspector Aldridge said.

Fri, 6.10pm: Extra units from Taree have been sent to help with tonight's search, an SES spokesman said.
Surf Life Saving Clubs from up and down the Mid-North Coast are also sending their members to bolster numbers as it gets colder and darker out there.

Fri, 7.45pm: Those wanting to help are asked to join the search on Saturday morning.
Searchers need to register with the SES from 7am at the end of Benaroon Drive, followed by a mandatory briefing at 8am.
Inspector Kerrie Brill said emergency services are working in dense bushland.
"The experts are out there now," she said.
"It's best to let them do what they do best, and any help would really be better in the morning."
Inspector Brill said search numbers have been bolstered by Kendall residents returning home from work.

Fri 10.30pm: Police have changed the meeting place for tomorrow morning: People are asked to gather at Kendall Showgrounds from 7am on Saturday to join the search for William Tyrell.
Weatherzone has predicted Friday night's patchy rain to continue on Saturday morning, as a trough brings showers to northeastern NSW."