Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[LRitz]

Yes agreed. That was why I was interested in the use of plural. By no means certain and less so because not seen but it has a place in determining POL especially because it is independent testimony

If neighbour knew that a couple of kids were visiting he could have just used the word "children" because he would assumed that they were both playing. He does not mention adults voices, yet FM alleges she is playing with kids and that FGM was outside for a time as well. Or maybe adult voices do not carry as much as adult voices could explain it.
Edit : Or maybe adult voices do not carry as much as Children voices could explain it.

 

[Underarrest_]

I'll tell you why. It's absolutely critical to the case. Not so much WHERE she drove but WHEN and WHY. Because the timing and location of the drive is inconsistent with the explanation that she was looking for William. She took the drive before looking for him, and before telling anybody he was missing. She initially did not tell anyone about the drive. She later related the drive but the sequence of events as told by FM is inconsistent with known facts and other eyewitness testimony.

Yes but aren’t police saying they believe FM put William in the car and took him to somewhere near that intersection?
This is why they have expert testimonies about bones,etc?

 

[31550]

Then there is something very critical to consider and it should probably be referred to as a what if.

What if the created times were actually the times? But then I have the following question continually circling in my mind and that is:

What would be the reason someone would want to prove that they were with William (his foster grandmother and his biological sister) and they were all alive and present and positioned on the deck at 48 Benaroon Drive in Kendall at the times between 9.37 and 9.39 on 12/9/2014 when it could be proven (likely) beyond doubt (by cctv images captured in Lakewood and later verified by police investigators) that the foster father was in the Lakewood location at these times and Lakewood was approximately 10 kilometers away?

We have been asked not to discuss the photo times any more unless the deputy coroner challenges their veracity.

 

[31550]

Yes but aren’t police saying they believe FM put William in the car and took him to somewhere near that intersection?

I don't care what the police allege. I am interested in what actually happened.

 

[Underarrest_]

I don't care what the police allege. I am interested in what actually happened.

Me too, just in case you think you’re the only one
Police either have evidence to support their theory that FM disposed of William where they said she did or they don’t.

 

[Wallace52]

No I did not go to inquest or listen to hours of podcasts. If it was not seen it was not witnessed, that is, there is no proof, is all I'm saying. Yes it is possible FGM had dementia, yes it is possible that they rode the bikes, yes it is possible William was run over by the postie.

FGM walkthrough : FF left at 8:00, allegedly
FM statement : FF left after 9:00, he was running late.allegedly
FF walkthrough: left 9ish. allegedly
CCTV at tennis club has him there before 9:00

So do you know when FF left FGM house, after all these years? Please let us know.

Yes, CCTV has him passing the tennis club about 8:40am.

 

[Wallace52]

Yes but aren’t police saying they believe FM put William in the car and took him to somewhere near that intersection?
This is why they have expert testimonies about bones,etc?

That’s right.

 

[31550]

Me too, just in case you think you’re the only one
Police either have evidence to support their theory that FM disposed of William where they said she did or they don’t.

Regardless of the police evidence, the coroner needs to determine the probable cause and circumstances of William's death. The nature and intention, time and location of the FM drive provides vital information to determine that. Why doesn't anyone want to talk about it?

 

[Wallace52]

Regardless of the police evidence, the coroner needs to determine the probable cause and circumstances of William's death. The nature and intention, time and location of the FM drive provides vital information to determine that. Why doesn't anyone want to talk about it?

Because there is another week of the inquest and then the findings will be published in 2025.

Maybe if the FM takes the stand at the upcoming tranche, as the policy lawyers have requested; the Coroner may have a more comprehensive understanding about the questions you’ve outlined.

 

[31550]

Yes, CCTV has him passing the tennis club about 8:40am.

With a 9 minute or 13 minute adjustment depending on which version you believe. However FM statement says he was in the house when she called Spedding, which has been shown to be 9.03am so that's yet another discrepancy.

 

[Earls Smother]

Yes but aren’t police saying they believe FM put William in the car and took him to somewhere near that intersection?
This is why they have expert testimonies about bones,etc?

Of course. But those who are adamant FM did it, are now forced to jump off the police theory horse. She now must be somewhere else and they are not interested in the police theory.

Regardless of the police evidence, the coroner needs to determine the probable cause and circumstances of William's death. The nature and intention, time and location of the FM drive provides vital information to determine that. Why doesn't anyone want to talk about it?

What evidence?

 

[31550]

Because there is another week of the inquest and then the findings will be published in 2025.

Maybe if the FM takes the stand at the upcoming tranche, as the policy lawyers have requested; the Coroner may have a more comprehensive understanding about the questions you’ve outlined.

I don't get it. Establish the timeline. That should have been the starting point. Why waste everyone's time with random truck drivers who didn't see anything except unidentified cars and unidentified drivers?

 

[31550]

Of course. But those who are adamant FM did it, are now forced to jump off the police theory horse. She now must be somewhere else and they are not interested in the police theory.




What evidence?

Agree, what evidence, and I was never ON the police theory horse. Any of them.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Then there is something very critical to consider and it should probably be referred to as a what if.

What if the created times were actually the times? But then I have the following question continually circling in my mind and that is:

What would be the reason someone would want to prove that they were with William (his foster grandmother and his biological sister) and they were all alive and present and positioned on the deck at 48 Benaroon Drive in Kendall at the times between 9.37 and 9.39 on 12/9/2014 when it could be proven (likely) beyond doubt (by cctv images captured in Lakewood and later verified by police investigators) that the foster father was in the Lakewood location at these times and Lakewood was approximately 10 kilometers away?

Relevant FACTS are:

• The photos have been used as POL.
• The FGM even volunteered their existence in walk through ( which I found insightful because it wasn't asked) " This was where the photos were taken"
• The 000 reporting happened after 20 min not 2 hrs usual despite the hundreds of places he could hide ie it was truncated on purpose to present an abduction as more likely
• The photos were shown on arrival of WH to show normalcy and promote POL
• All FPs painting down and away from the cul-de-sac. WT can only go down hill

The effect of these steps was to make it unlikely on face value that FM was involved. Perpetrate an alleged hoax.

What does it achieve? FF alibi has been checked. Not him. The effect though IF they are wrong is that instead of having 20 minutes to make a drive she has nearly an hour.. Her CC questioning where she said he would be found in future upon clearing land is imo an " embedded confession" in witness statement parlance for where she hid him. No one was there to hear/ see them before 9.30..

Perhaps SFR has done testing to prove them but they haven't made that testing public and until they do I remain sceptical of the time because of the COG behaviours all pointing to an intentional manipulation of time. That and the fact SFR has got it wrong on Cobb & co.

Their manipulation achieves a purpose. To create an alibi for FM..even her showing the photos to WH she could asses quickly that WH didn't look at EXIF.....so possibly the idea of manipulation germinated at that point and was finessed in the few days after

If the time remains 9.37 then she has 10 mins to drive. If it's the nearly hour he could be anywhere..Perhaps thats why she so confidently stated he'd be found in the distant future upon clearing land for development.

 

[Kurve]

Do you have a "burner phone"? Do you know anybody with a "burner phone"?

A lot of people have burner phones for varying reasons, as a spare, for work or because they're having an affair.

We know that even Russell Hill had a burner phone with him when he was stabbed at Wonnangatta.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

If neighbour knew that a couple of kids were visiting he could have just used the word "children" because he would assumed that they were both playing. He does not mention adults voices, yet FM alleges she is playing with kids and that FGM was outside for a time as well. Or maybe adult voices do not carry as much as adult voices could explain it.

Agreed. Not perfect

 

[jason_recliner]

A lot of people have burner phones for varying reasons, as a spare, for work or because they're having an affair.

We know that even Russell Hill had a burner phone with him when he was stabbed at Wonnangatta.

Do you have a "burner phone"? Do you know anybody who has a "burner phone"?

Didn't Russell Hill just have a second phone, to facilitate his long running affair? What evidence is there it was a "burner phone"?

 

[Kurve]

Do you have a "burner phone"? Do you know anybody who has a "burner phone"?

A burner phone is just a simple prepaid. Are you trying to imply anybody with a burner phone is a criminal?

 

[stormbird]

No I did not go to inquest or listen to hours of podcasts. If it was not seen it was not witnessed, that is, there is no proof, is all I'm saying. Yes it is possible FGM had dementia, yes it is possible that they rode the bikes, yes it is possible William was run over by the postie.

FGM walkthrough : FF left at 8:00, allegedly
FM statement : FF left after 9:00, he was running late.allegedly
FF walkthrough: left 9ish. allegedly
CCTV at tennis club has him there before 9:00

So do you know when FF left FGM house, after all these years? Please let us know.

LRitz, re: "...it is possible William was run over by the postie."

From memory, that's the second time you've suggested that. Have you seen that allegation by anybody in the investigation, or what are you referring to?

At the time of the Local Court hearing for Gary Jubelin's charges it was reported that Det Sgt Beacroft had been asked (I don't know when) about Det Sgt Lambert's view about the postie. She was reported to think it "far-fetched", but I've never seen an explanation for what his view actually was.

The "I Catch Killers" book by Jubelin and Box says the postie's early delivery time that day (8:45am) was verified by CCTV cameras around Kendall. If that's correct, I think it's likely the postie can't have run over William, MOO.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Regardless of the police evidence, the coroner needs to determine the probable cause and circumstances of William's death. The nature and intention, time and location of the FM drive provides vital information to determine that. Why doesn't anyone want to talk about it?

It was talked about for 4 hours at the inquest last week with the NSW CC video being played to the Coroner.

 

[passball]

Yes, CCTV has him passing the tennis club about 8:40am.

And CCTV has him passing the tennis club on his way home?

 

[LRitz]

Yes, CCTV has him passing the tennis club about 8:40am.

So you don't know of the FGM was at the inquest or what time the FF left after all these years?

Is it your view that if no one saw anything it didn't happen?

And yes I do believe those thing could have happened in that time frame as all activities were of a short duration IMO

Yes. CCTV is certain.

To explain my comment Wallace52, it was reply to alwaysintrigued who asked me in post 6358 "So you don't know of the FGM was at the inquest or what time the FF left after all these years?"

I was pointing out that there were differences in statements of time FF left the house. The FF and FM, are wrong if they say he left at or about 9:00. Maybe FF has early signs of dementia.

I think the FF left the house at least before the time to drive to the tennis club. So ~ 8:35 to 8:40 around that time. But he could have left earlier. So the time FF left the house is possible between early 7:30 am to 8:40 am. He could not have left at 9:00 unless he doubled back after going past the tennis club.

If alwaysintrigued is implying that they know for certain what time FF left the house can they let me know.

 

[jason_recliner]

A burner phone is just a simple prepaid. Are you trying to imply anybody with a burner phone is a criminal?

"Burner phone" has a specific meaning - it's a phone to use and then dispose of. There are millions of prepaid phones that aren't "burner phones". And the fact they are disposable and used (not solely) by criminals definitely brings with it connotations associated with nefarious purposes.

 

[31550]

A burner phone is just a simple prepaid. Are you trying to imply anybody with a burner phone is a criminal?

I thought a burner phone meant a phone which was not registered in the owner/user's real name, and hence could not be traced? (Pretty difficult to do in this country). Lots of us have 'second' phones or SIMS - perfectly legal. A true burner is illegal.

 

[31550]

It was talked about for 4 hours at the inquest last week with the NSW CC video being played to the Coroner.

And yet there is no definite timeline or location for this drive, as there is e.g. for the Roar photograph?
Shouldn't the coroner have a position on where and when the drive was, at least, if not why?
It's foolish to rely on the FM telling us where and when and why she took the drive. It needs forensic evidence - phone pings etc or at least independent witnesses.