Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Poppy Penny]

Is there any truth that FM offered to look after William's brother?

Yes, I have previously read that.

 

[stormbird]

Do we know if they fingerprinted the high balcony rails?

Fingerprinting on surfaces in and around the house, cars etc may have been informative even if it indicated someone who shouldn't have been there, was. If William handled the rails at the high end etc.

Even the FM or FF.

I haven't seen anything about whether the house was fingerprinted, only that both cars were.

But gymjam's post 5,922 said that a "full forensic examination including with relevant search dogs took place on 19 September 2014".

Would a "full" examination normally include fingerprints (or footprints) on balcony rails etc? I don't know.

 

[js47]

I haven't seen anything about whether the house was fingerprinted, only that both cars were.

But gymjam's post 5,922 said that a "full forensic examination including with relevant search dogs took place on 19 September 2014".

Would a "full" examination normally include fingerprints (or footprints) on balcony rails etc? I don't know.

Who knows Stormbird? After seeing how this investigation has run its course you would question how thorough it would have been. You would have to question how competent the people doing it were.
When Wm. Went missing the roof cavity was not searched because ‘a child would not be able to access it’
But! …… what about an adult?
Why was a ladder on the upstairs balcony and when was it put there?

I don’t think Wm. Was roaring I think he was yelling at the FM.
FGM said he was bouncing out of (whatever) with life.
He was bored? We’re we’re his toys????

Why? Did FF park down the bottom why not at the carport next to FGM ?
Go and find daddy Wm. Don’t worry if he cannot see you in his big 4wheel drive.

 

[stormbird]

That search was in 2021. Maybe if they had considered the balcony fall theory in 2014 there might have been some evidence, if he did die in a fall. Remember, the house had already passed through two (I think) new owners, who could well have destroyed any evidence, if it existed.

Whoever decided to do the 2021 forensic searches must have believed it was still possible to find evidence, IMO. The alternative is that the searches were done even though no evidence could have survived to be found and the police knew they would find nothing - which is possible, but probably not very likely, MOO.

 

[stormbird]

Who knows Stormbird? After seeing how this investigation has run its course you would question how thorough it would have been. You would have to question how competent the people doing it were.
When Wm. Went missing the roof cavity was not searched because ‘a child would not be able to access it’
But! …… what about an adult?
Why was a ladder on the upstairs balcony and when was it put there?

I don’t think Wm. Was roaring I think he was yelling at the FM.
FGM said he was bouncing out of (whatever) with life.
He was bored? We’re we’re his toys????

Why? Did FF park down the bottom why not at the carport next to FGM ?
Go and find daddy Wm. Don’t worry if he cannot see you in his big 4wheel drive.

js47, I reckon you seem quite interested in that ladder - isn't this about the third time you've mentioned it?
Why was it there? Good question. FGM's ladder or someone else's? Could it have been left there for future use by handyman Geoff Owen? Or maintenance workers? House painters? Window washers? What about FM being asked about a drop cloth - is that related? Could there be a link to the ladder(s) on the vehicles seen by truck driver Peter? Is it possible someone called at the house to drop off something for a job - cleaning materials, a drop cloth - or to get their ladder back?

 

[passball]

Was the ladder to get in to the manhole?

The ladder shouldn't have been there anyway with the kids.
I don't get why Michelle White was taking photos. She is documenting her own evidence that she is negligent allowing the kids to go visit the place. Her photos show she is guilty of this. I don't understand.
How is she in the position she is now? Don't understand that either.

 

[passball]

Yes, I have previously read that.

That tells me everything about the FM.
She's mentally ill big time.
What the hell asking that.
She's cold as.

 

[31550]

Was the ladder to get in to the manhole?

The ladder shouldn't have been there anyway with the kids.
I don't get why Michelle White was taking photos. She is documenting her own evidence that she is negligent allowing the kids to go visit the place. Her photos show she is guilty of this. I don't understand.
How is she in the position she is now? Don't understand that either.

Is there any evidence the ladder was "there" when William actually disappeared?
I don't see any photos taken on the 14th with the ladder in them.
Perhaps the ladder was put "there" or moved by people after William was reported missing? Including possibly the police when they searched the house?

 

[passball]

Is there any evidence the ladder was "there" when William actually disappeared?
I don't see any photos taken on the 14th with the ladder in them.
Perhaps the ladder was put "there" or moved by people after William was reported missing? Including possibly the police when they searched the William wouldn't be able to get in there.

Why would the Police use the ladder?
They didn't check the roof, William wouldn't of been able to get in there.
Isn't that what Rowley said?
Why else would the ladder be there?
If they decided to check it you would leave it in the carport, not on the verandah.

 

[31550]

Why would the Police use the ladder?
They didn't check the roof, William wouldn't of been able to get in there.
Isn't that what Rowley said?
Why else would the ladder be there?
If they decided to check it you would leave it in the carport, not on the verandah.

According to Rowley, they checked the roof cavity of another house.
Rowley does not say they DIDNT search the FGM house roof cavity.

William Tyrrell twist: Police found BLOOD and hair in wire fence

The boy in the Spiderman suit was three years old when he vanished from his foster grandmother's property on Benaroon Drive at Kendall, on the mid north coast, in September 2014.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I am just asking if we know for CERTAIN that the ladder was on the verandah (as is suggested by others above)?
Because I have not seen any evidence that proves the ladder was accessible to William or others BEFORE he disappeared. It's a big conclusion to jump to IMO. Might be another rabbit hole.

 

[passball]

God, if it's not one ladder it's 3 of them.
Ladder at FGMs on the balcony.
Ladder at Taxi Driver.
Ladder on.car roof of someone's car, according to Peter truck driver.
I don't know if the Ladder was there before the abduction/wandered off/accident/incident/murder.
I thought I had read in here that it was there along with stacked furniture.

 

[shorsky]

Wendy's statement is all 'recall'. There are her handwritten notes, which were presumably done each evening or on the fly. But the statement was not (started being) typed up until 18 September and not completed (sworn) until 2nd October.
Happy to DM you the entire statement -don't think I can post it here because I don't think it has been formally / legally released.

FD statement never released AFAIK.

I’ve not found Wendy’s ‘notes’ of much value for this very reason. The relevance / importance of particular words, sentences etc can be very easily Lost when notes are not promptly & succinctly recorded.
… another example of the huge police failings in the initial investigation imo.

 

[shorsky]

Do we know if they fingerprinted the high balcony rails?

Fingerprinting on surfaces in and around the house, cars etc may have been informative even if it indicated someone who shouldn't have been there, was. If William handled the rails at the high end etc.

Even the FM or FF.

I of course have no clue - however I’d suggest no fingerprints were taken & no real notice was taken of things that could, in certain contexts, be considered suspicious.

That’s because in the initial stages they were looking for a child who couldn’t be found e.g. a child who was perhaps hiding somewhere, trapped somewhere or who has wandered off and become lost.

 

[Kurve]

I of course have no clue - however I’d suggest no fingerprints were taken & no real notice was taken of things that could, in certain contexts, be considered suspicious.

That’s because in the initial stages they were looking for a child who couldn’t be found e.g. a child who was perhaps hiding somewhere, trapped somewhere or who has wandered off and become lost.

The FGM vehicle was taken for examination the following day iirc, which suggests that maybe someone in charge thought it wise to have a look.

We might find out later that they did do fingerprinting along the high balcony.

The cops must have something to suggest William fell over it?

 

[js47]

js47, I reckon you seem quite interested in that ladder - isn't this about the third time you've mentioned it?
Why was it there? Good question. FGM's ladder or someone else's? Could it have been left there for future use by handyman Geoff Owen? Or maintenance workers? House painters? Window washers? What about FM being asked about a drop cloth - is that related? Could there be a link to the ladder(s) on the vehicles seen by truck driver Peter? Is it possible someone called at the house to drop off something for a job - cleaning materials, a drop cloth - or to get their ladder back?

Noted: just going over stuff.

 

[31550]

The FGM vehicle was taken for examination the following day iirc, which suggests that maybe someone in charge thought it wise to have a look.

We might find out later that they did do fingerprinting along the high balcony.

The cops must have something to suggest William fell over it?

Is there evidence that FGM car was 'taken' on the 13th? My understanding was that it was 'examined' several days later, but no thorough forensic examination was done until 2021.

What purpose would fingerprinting the balcony serve? Wasn't it FM testimony that William played out there early on the morning of the 12th? So no surprise if his fingerprints were on the balcony.

The cops must have something? Don't know that they need much more than the fact that the balcony exists, and William had easy access to it, and it's very high and unsafe for an unsupervised 3YO. It's the most obvious and prominent feature of the house if looking for a potential accident to a young child. There's no swimming pool or pond. No playground equipment, no firearms or sharp tools lying around. It's the most obvious thing if you think something happened to William on the property.

 

[Kurve]

Is there evidence that FGM car was 'taken' on the 13th? My understanding was that it was 'examined' several days later, but no thorough forensic examination was done until 2021.

What purpose would fingerprinting the balcony serve? Wasn't it FM testimony that William played out there early on the morning of the 12th? So no surprise if his fingerprints were on the balcony.

If his fingerprints for example were on the top rail end of the balcony, that might be informative if it indicated he was climbing on it or the furniture. It might then provide an explanation of how he might have gone over the rail, if of course it's not conclusive.

Questions might then be asked accordingly, as hidden information. "Did William climb on the balcony furniture?" "Could you see him if William was at the high end rail facing the driveway?"

Is there evidence that FGM car was 'taken' on the 13th? My understanding was that it was 'examined' several days later, but no thorough forensic examination was done until 2021.

What purpose would fingerprinting the balcony serve? Wasn't it FM testimony that William played out there early on the morning of the 12th? So no surprise if his fingerprints were on the balcony.

The cops must have something? Don't know that they need much more than the fact that the balcony exists, and William had easy access to it, and it's very high and unsafe for an unsupervised 3YO. It's the most obvious and prominent feature of the house if looking for a potential accident to a young child. There's no swimming pool or pond. No playground equipment, no firearms or sharp tools lying around. It's the most obvious thing if you think something happened to William on the property.

Really? They can send a brief with recommendations for charges to the ODPP with "There's a balcony." ?

I don't know, maybe they did and someone else's career is going down the toilet.

 

[31550]

If his fingerprints for example were on the top rail end of the balcony, that might be informative if it indicated he was climbing on it or the furniture. It might then provide an explanation of how he might have gone over the rail, if of course it's not conclusive.

Questions might then be asked accordingly, as hidden information. "Did William climb on the balcony furniture?" "Could you see him if William was at the high end rail facing the driveway?"



Really? They can send a brief with recommendations for charges to the ODPP with "There's a balcony." ?

I don't know, maybe they did and someone else's career is going down the toilet.

We haven't seen the brief so we don't know that a balcony fall allegation specifically is part of it. In any case the brief is about 'interfere with a corpse' so the balcony fall itself is not relevant. The brief would presumably provide an hypothesis of how William's body was relocated and or disposed of. It wouldn't matter whether he fell from the balcony or was the victim of some other mishap.

 

[Sammy 72]

Does anyone know why there's no episode today from the Witness: William Tyrrell podcast? Is it still on the way or have they decided to finish instead? I checked Dan Box's X account but there was no news there.

Hi stormbird , did you attend the inquest at all ?

 

[stormbird]

Hi stormbird , did you attend the inquest at all ?

Hi Sammy 72! No, I didn't attend the inquest at all. Thanks for asking, but why are you asking?

I've never been to any inquests at all, but I watched bits of some of the hearings that were live streamed for Marion Barter's inquest. (They were extremely tedious, by the way - it seemed like half the time was spent looking for the right page of a document for a witness to check. I kept thinking there must be a better way to do an investigation.)

 

[stormbird]

Is there evidence that FGM car was 'taken' on the 13th? My understanding was that it was 'examined' several days later, but no thorough forensic examination was done until 2021.

What purpose would fingerprinting the balcony serve? Wasn't it FM testimony that William played out there early on the morning of the 12th? So no surprise if his fingerprints were on the balcony.

The cops must have something? Don't know that they need much more than the fact that the balcony exists, and William had easy access to it, and it's very high and unsafe for an unsupervised 3YO. It's the most obvious and prominent feature of the house if looking for a potential accident to a young child. There's no swimming pool or pond. No playground equipment, no firearms or sharp tools lying around. It's the most obvious thing if you think something happened to William on the property.

Re: "It's the most obvious thing if you think something happened to William on the property."

Any number of things could have happened to him (as they could to any child anywhere) but I think the most obvious danger for William would have been his asthma.

 

[31550]

Re: "It's the most obvious thing if you think something happened to William on the property."

Any number of things could have happened to him (as they could to any child anywhere) but I think the most obvious danger for William would have been his asthma.

Spontaneous asthma attacks are very rare. Something usually needs to trigger an asthma attack - stress, sudden environment change, air pollution, chemicals, allergic reaction, or missing medication.
If we are looking for an 'accident' then the asthma attack itself is not the accident. It's the thing which caused it.

 

[Sammy 72]

Hi Sammy 72! No, I didn't attend the inquest at all. Thanks for asking, but why are you asking?

I've never been to any inquests at all, but I watched bits of some of the hearings that were live streamed for Marion Barter's inquest. (They were extremely tedious, by the way - it seemed like half the time was spent looking for the right page of a document for a witness to check. I kept thinking there must be a better way to do an investigation.)

thanks stormbird I was just curious that's all I'm in WA so I didn't attend either.. but have followed other inquests also

 

[js47]

According to Rowley, they checked the roof cavity of another house.
Rowley does not say they DIDNT search the FGM house roof cavity.

William Tyrrell twist: Police found BLOOD and hair in wire fence

The boy in the Spiderman suit was three years old when he vanished from his foster grandmother's property on Benaroon Drive at Kendall, on the mid north coast, in September 2014.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I am just asking if we know for CERTAIN that the ladder was on the verandah (as is suggested by others above)?
Because I have not seen any evidence that proves the ladder was accessible to William or others BEFORE he disappeared. It's a big conclusion to jump to IMO. Might be another rabbit hole.

Yes it might be a rabbit hole but is the answer in the file? Over and over till one of you bright minds finds it.

 

[js47]

God, if it's not one ladder it's 3 of them.
Ladder at FGMs on the balcony.
Ladder at Taxi Driver.
Ladder on.car roof of someone's car, according to Peter truck driver.
I don't know if the Ladder was there before the abduction/wandered off/accident/incident/murder.
I thought I had read in here that it was there along with stacked furniture.

Thanks Passball