Do we have the worst under 25 in the Comp?

[Sphynx]

Our under 25 list is expected to be light given we've been contending for effectively the last 6 years and also throwing away our first round picks in trades when we've had down season (2021/2024). But we have our trump card in Naicos. Not many other sides would have a <25yo player the quality of Naicos to build around (ie guaranteed multi-AA quality):

Sydney: Gulden
Port: Butters
Freo: Serong
Brisbane: Ashcroft
WB: Darcy/JUH
WC: Reid
GC: Anderson/Flanders
North: Sheezel
GWS: T Green maybe
Carlton: Maybe Walsh if he stays injury free
Geelong: No
Melbourne: No
Richmond: No
Hawthorn: No
Ess: No
Saints: No
Adelaide: No

I don't think we need a big rebuild, just a 2004/2005 style two years (excluding this year given we threw away our first rounder) bottoming out before we re-emerge again as contenders:

• KEEP our two future first rounders (1 likely to be T Mcguane) as they become the new elite young core to grow with.
• 2025: Trade out a 2nd rounder or two for a not yet established high end talent like a Hill, Henry, Caldwell type.
• 2026: Trade out a 2nd/3rd rounder for a older gun underutilised talent that's getting pushed out from their side like a Mitchell, Adams, Grundy, Treloar type.
• 2026: Sign a gun FA ideally KPF
• 2026: Potentially trade out a future first for a gun (2027 will be first year of Tassie compromised drafts)

Then we'll be back in business for 2027.

Some of those clubs have multiple. Particularly with a <25 cutoff


I found the Hawks "no" particularly funny. Moore and Watson will probably be 3+ AA's by the end of their careers.

I'll mark itallic as possible rather than probables.

Sydney: Gulden, Warner, Rowbottom, Blakey, McDonald
Port: Butters, Rozee, JHF
Freo: Serong, Young, Jackson, Treacy, Brayshaw, Clark
Brisbane: Ashcroft, Bailey, Wilmot, Coleman
WB: Darcy, JUH, Richards, Naughton, Weightman, Sanders,
WC: Reid
GC: Anderson, Rowell, Moyle, Andrew, Flanders, Rodgers, Walter, Read
North: LDU, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Xerri, McKercher, Comben, Curtis, Duursma
GWS: Taylor, T.Green, Callaghan, Briggs, Ash
Carlton: TDK, Walsh, E. Hollands
Geelong: Holmes, Miers, Dempsey, Neale, SDK, Bruhn
Melbourne: Pickett, Rivers, Windsor, JVR
Richmond: Balta
Hawthorn: Moore, Day, Watson, Newcombe, Weddle, D'Ambrosio
Ess: Durham, Martin, Caddy
Saints: NWM, Henry, Wilson, Owens, King, Phillipou
Adelaide: Rankine, Soligo, Thilthorpe, Rachele

For clarity I would have Coll:

Daicos, Hill, Quaynor

So my answer is No, because it's Richmond, as they don't have Reid/Daicos.

However they will have a lot of top picks this year to rectify that in what looms as an even and strong draft, the problem is Collingwood might be the answer to this at the end of 2025.

The main problem here is, some of these clubs like Fremantle, North, GC will be adding to already significant lists this offseason, Freo have 4 picks in the top 25, including your Pick 6*, North will have Pick #3 more than likely and have Duursma not even in the side yet and Gold Coast add Lombard + have a bevvy of picks.

Whilst WC, Richmond will start big rejuvinations, particularly Richmond.

You either need to cut hard now, or go all out at FA before Tassie.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

You would have matched the Swans’ 3 year deal for him?

No.

 

[Pie thon]

Start the rebuild ASAP before Tassie compromise the draft. We are possibly in for a tough patch, 1995-1999 style. Naicos to be the Bucks of the era, but with a flag at least. And I prefer that to accumulate high end draft picks than sit in no man's land in the middle like essendon, saints, and north pre rebuild.
At least when 04-05 happened it was due to low moral from the grand final loses, we had a youngish list, and we could pick up pendles and thomas to reload quickly.

 

[SchuPie]

I saw this on FB, its not 100% correct and it doesnt mention the 2 picks for Treloar .

View attachment 2055474

Not essentially true

2013 - poor choices
2014 - great
2015 / 2016 - traded out 2x pick 7 for Treloar. Phillips was nearly part of a premiership (as was Sier)
2017 - nearly won us a flag. (Should have)
2018 / 2019 - Beams (ridiculous cost)
2020 - Henry: not a miss, poor result in trade out. Macrae: a choice for Buck's gameplan. Had we had Fly as coach, we may have selected Holmes.
2021 Traded pick 2 in 2020. Just dumb. Even in best case scenario, we were trading out a F1 for a couple of junk picks in the 20s. Draper was a good pick - he just didn't (IMO) translate in workmate required in gameplay. HH still a chance.
2022 We don't really know about these players. Allan in particular was always long-game with lots of development needed.

Threw out bc of previous admin absurd list management.

2023 Haz instead of Morris - yet to determine. Traded out F1.

 

[cfc19902010]

I saw this on FB, its not 100% correct and it doesnt mention the 2 picks for Treloar .

View attachment 2055474

What a disaster this shows

Unbelievable how we have been successful

 

[BEEG]

I saw this on FB, its not 100% correct and it doesnt mention the 2 picks for Treloar .

View attachment 2055474

In Hine We Trust



Absolute fraud.

 

[Kirby]

Jeepers, we have some dummies here.

That list conveniently leaves off Moore, Josh Daicos

7

Josh Daicos

Age

26

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

8.3

3star

HB

7.3

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.2

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.5

4star

CL

1.5

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

, Murphy, Cox. Quaynor, Mihocek, McCreery, Noble etc.

Including Harrison as a bust is stupid, let alone including the 2022 draft bunch.

 

[Ugene41]

Some of those clubs have multiple. Particularly with a <25 cutoff


I found the Hawks "no" particularly funny. Moore and Watson will probably be 3+ AA's by the end of their careers.

I'll mark itallic as possible rather than probables.

Sydney: Gulden, Warner, Rowbottom, Blakey, McDonald
Port: Butters, Rozee, JHF
Freo: Serong, Young, Jackson, Treacy, Brayshaw, Clark
Brisbane: Ashcroft, Bailey, Wilmot, Coleman
WB: Darcy, JUH, Richards, Naughton, Weightman, Sanders,
WC: Reid
GC: Anderson, Rowell, Moyle, Andrew, Flanders, Rodgers, Walter, Read
North: LDU, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Xerri, McKercher, Comben, Curtis, Duursma
GWS: Taylor, T.Green, Callaghan, Briggs, Ash
Carlton: TDK, Walsh, E. Hollands
Geelong: Holmes, Miers, Dempsey, Neale, SDK, Bruhn
Melbourne: Pickett, Rivers, Windsor, JVR
Richmond: Balta
Hawthorn: Moore, Day, Watson, Newcombe, Weddle, D'Ambrosio
Ess: Durham, Martin, Caddy
Saints: NWM, Henry, Wilson, Owens, King, Phillipou
Adelaide: Rankine, Soligo, Thilthorpe, Rachele

For clarity I would have Coll:

Daicos, Hill, Quaynor

So my answer is No, because it's Richmond, as they don't have Reid/Daicos.

However they will have a lot of top picks this year to rectify that in what looms as an even and strong draft, the problem is Collingwood might be the answer to this at the end of 2025.

The main problem here is, some of these clubs like Fremantle, North, GC will be adding to already significant lists this offseason, Freo have 4 picks in the top 25, including your Pick 6*, North will have Pick #3 more than likely and have Duursma not even in the side yet and Gold Coast add Lombard + have a bevvy of picks.

Whilst WC, Richmond will start big rejuvinations, particularly Richmond.

You either need to cut hard now, or go all out at FA before Tassie.

That's a ridiculous list of bolded players that you claim are highly likely to be generational multi-AA players. Do you think they hand that jacket out like candy?

You've bolded 30+ under 25s excluding the possibles. How many players do you think make the AA squad? And what about all the players over 25 that are likely to continue dominating AA positions like the Gawn, Bonts, Merretts, Neale, Heeney etc

Dylan Moore and Nick Watson to end up with 3x AAs by the end of their career? Good to see that you already think they're better than Cyril Rioli (3x AA) and Luke Breust (2x AA) who were the best small forwards during a 3-4x premiership run.

All you've named is just a list of talented young players. But they're just not in the same class as a Naicos. Maybe the question should be who would you be willing to entertain a trade for Naicos. Then maybe you can refine your list.

 

[Sphynx]

That's a ridiculous list of bolded players that you claim are highly likely to be generational multi-AA players. Do you think they hand that jacket out like candy?

You've bolded 30+ under 25s excluding the possibles. How many players do you think make the AA squad? And what about all the players over 25 that are likely to continue dominating AA positions like the Gawn, Bonts, Merretts, Neale, Heeney etc

Dylan Moore and Nick Watson to end up with 3x AAs by the end of their career? Good to see that you already think they're better than Cyril Rioli (3x AA) and Luke Breust (2x AA) who were the best small forwards during a 3-4x premiership run.

All you've named is just a list of talented young players. But they're just not in the same class as a Naicos. Maybe the question should be who would you be willing to entertain a trade for Naicos. Then maybe you can refine your list.

Last I checked multiple means 2+

Moore is going to win his first AA jacket this season. So he's half way there.

Watson is averaging 3.5 shots on goal a game and he's 18 years old. Betts and Charlie Cameron at their peaks averaged similar, they simply kicked straight.

The line for Watson from bookmakers would be about 3.5 AA's at the moment.

You don't need to be an 8 x AA to carry your side through the next decade, if that is what you are inferring. A better question might be, out of the bolded I listed, who don't you think capable of 2+ AA by the end of their careers?

A very big chunk of those bolded may be named an AA inside of the next 7 weeks, like Gulden, Warner, Serong, Butters, Moore and Sheezel.

Rankine probably would have if not for games disqualification.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

What a disaster this shows

Unbelievable how we have been successful

I know

Given how totally f*cked the club is I fear they will revoke the 2023 premiership

 

[Ugene41]

Last I checked multiple means 2+

Moore is going to win his first AA jacket this season. So he's half way there.

Watson is averaging 3.5 shots on goal a game and he's 18 years old. Betts and Charlie Cameron at their peaks averaged similar, they simply kicked straight.

The line for Watson from bookmakers would be about 3.5 AA's at the moment.

You don't need to be an 8 x AA to carry your side through the next decade, if that is what you are inferring. A better question might be, out of the bolded I listed, who don't you think capable of 2+ AA by the end of their careers?

My original post said guaranteed multiple AA type generational player. The type where as long as they're not injured, they're basically clear top 10-20 in the comp. And here you are listing 30+ bolded under 25s. How do you fit Naicos, Serong, Butters, Rozee, Gulden, Warner, Walsh, Green, Anderson, Rowell, Reid, Young, Ashcroft, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Mckercher, LDU, Day, Holmes into one midfield? That's before you even take into account the older guys.

Sure all of them are "capable" of snagging an AA as they have talent. But none of them are guaranteed. A lot of them will end up having amazing careers like Sidebottom (1x AA), Crisp (0 AAs), Treloar (0 AAs). But you don't look at most of those bolded players and say they're definite top 20 in the comp. Unlike Naicos.

 

[cfc19902010]

I know

Given how totally f*cked the club is I fear they will revoke the 2023 premiership

Haha

No way Jose

Some shockers tho you have to admit

 

[Sphynx]

My original post said guaranteed multiple AA type generational player. The type where as long as they're not injured, they're basically clear top 10-20 in the comp. And here you are listing 30+ bolded under 25s. How do you fit Naicos, Serong, Butters, Rozee, Gulden, Warner, Walsh, Green, Anderson, Rowell, Reid, Young, Ashcroft, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Mckercher, LDU, Day, Holmes into one midfield? That's before you even take into account the older guys.

Sure all of them are "capable" of snagging an AA as they have talent. But none of them are guaranteed. A lot of them will end up having amazing careers like Sidebottom (1x AA), Crisp (0 AAs), Treloar (0 AAs). But you don't look at most of those bolded players and say they're definite top 20 in the comp. Unlike Naicos.

Serong, Gulden, Butters are about to clock up their second AA's with 10+ years left in the league.

Half of those you are listing have 15 years left in the game.

You obviously don't fit all of them in the same side, because they wont rack up 15 All-Australians.

As they won't make the AA side every year.

Judd and Ablett didn't make it every single year of their careers either.

 

[jathanas]

Jeepers, we have some dummies here.

That list conveniently leaves off Moore, Josh Daicos, Murphy, Cox. Quaynor, Mihocek, McCreery, Noble etc.

Including Harrison as a bust is stupid, let alone including the 2022 draft bunch.

I don't like the doomsday merchants in this thread who are conveniently forgetting that the club was similarly written off in '21, but we shouldn't denigrate them.

To the doomsday merchants in this thread: denigrate means "to put down".

 

[Ugene41]

Serong, Gulden, Butters are about to clock up their second AA's with 10+ years left in the league.

Half of those you are listing have 15 years left in the game.

You obviously don't fit all of them in the same side, because they wont rack up 15 All-Australians.

As they won't make the AA side every year.

Judd and Ablett didn't make it every single year of their careers either.

Yes Serong, Gulden and Butters were on my original list. Take a look. They're clearly a class above and would be top 20 players in the comp.

But there's definitely not a 30+ list of top 20 players in the comp. And players outside the top 20 can be great players but not generational players like Naicos.

 

[76woodenspooners]

What a disaster this shows

Unbelievable how we have been successful

Or maybe the fact we have been successful shows that things aren’t anywhere near as bad as what some folks are carrying on about?

 

[pie chucker]

Our list is a bit of a worry. Too many over 30;s. Degoey and Moore are approaching 30 and by the time will rebuild they could possibly be gone.
Trading out this years first pick looks like a terrible result for us.
Anyway we'll see, but apart from Daicos, we don't have much talent coming through.
Hoorah for 2023.

 

[sideswipe]

I don't like the doomsday merchants in this thread who are conveniently forgetting that the club was similarly written off in '21, but we shouldn't denigrate them.

To the doomsday merchants in this thread: denigrate means "to put down".

You stole that from Bob Newhart you cheap hustler


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jathanas]

You stole that from Bob Newhart you cheap hustler


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Indeed I stole like an artist! Very well observed.

Bob was the master of deadpan delivery.

 

[Kappa]

Or maybe the fact we have been successful shows that things aren’t anywhere near as bad as what some folks are carrying on about?

We're in a similar position to West Coast in 2018. Carried by a bunch of quite old stars who are now slowing down and struggling to have a regular impact, given away a bunch of first rounders and the picks we've used haven't come on.

 

[greening22]

Ohhh it's unbelievable, we only have 9 years of drafts for evidence.

I agree totally. Our recruiting via the draft since 2018 - apart from from our father-son recruiting - has been terrible. Right now I cannot identify any of our recent draftees - perhaps apart from Harvey Harrison - who will definitely be AFL players going forward. As has been mentioned previously, Joe Richards is turning or close to 25 & so can anybody identify anybody on our AFL list & usually playing in the VFL, who is demanding a place in the senior team? Therefore I do not feel optimistic not only for the remaining games of 2024 but a pretty challenging 2025. Hopefully, I am proven wrong but I doubt it. Goodnight & good luck.

 

[greening22]

I was watching a review on Tom Mcguane. Looks highly rated for next years draft and was talked about having similar traits to Nick Daicos.

Maybe we trade next years first for a first this year and a bunch of picks to use for points next year (this may send supporters into meltdown talking about trading a first again )

Is he a key forward or a key back or an elite mid-fielder? That will determine how hard we use our draft points in 2025 to recruit him. They are non-negotiable requirements that we must prioritise going forward. I am not saying father-son recruits are unimportant but we must strategically recruit to fill the major gaps in our list. We saw what happened with Callum & Tyler Brown who ultimately became superfluous to our club's needs. However with Hine in charge of our recruiting going forward, I am not at all confident. We really need to have recruiting team. End of story. Goodnight & good luck.

 

[Jen2310]

Is he a key forward or a key back or an elite mid-fielder? That will determine how hard we use our draft points in 2025 to recruit him. They are non-negotiable requirements that we must prioritise going forward. I am not saying father-son recruits are unimportant but we must strategically recruit to fill the major gaps in our list. We saw what happened with Callum & Tyler Brown who ultimately became superfluous to our club's needs. However with Hine in charge of our recruiting going forward, I am not at all confident. We really need to have recruiting team. End of story. Goodnight & good luck.

elite mid. Can play inside and wing. Can go forward and kick goals. He's putting up numbers as a 16 year old, of mids that usually go really early.
At this point, could be anywhere from pick 5-10, or depending how his top age year goes, could be top 3. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[adammania9]

Club should move on Hine before he gets the chance to cover up his sub-par drafting with another great F/S.

 

[jakson68]

Jeepers, we have some dummies here.

That list conveniently leaves off Moore, Josh Daicos, Murphy, Cox. Quaynor, Mihocek, McCreery, Noble etc.

Including Harrison as a bust is stupid, let alone including the 2022 draft bunch.

Moore, Daicos Bros- F/S
IQ, Cox, Checkers and JFN were not young talent found in the draft.

What "that" list clearly shows is that we are no good at identifying young talent at the draft.
It is no wonder, we keep giving away draft picks for players, our talent identification is poor.

No matter what rose colored glasses you look through, there has been way too many busts over the last decade.

I am grateful for the flag but alot of that came from finding players that filled a need.
This is vastly different from being able to find a talented 18yo.