Do we need a new captain?

[Sttew]

Selwood has not shown that he is yet a Leader. Might be a good player, didn't do much in the finals, but not yet a Leader.

Totally disagree there - Selwood is a natural leader on and off the field.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Personally, I don't think Scott will be to keen to come straight in and strip the captaincy off Ling. He won't want to be seen making hasty, rash decisions that may cause disharmony at the club.

I think he'll tread a little carefully in his first year. I believe he'll make massive changes at the end of season 2011. I think he'll give Milburn, Mooney, Ottens, Ling and maybe Wojinski the tap on the shoulder. Even if Ling does get another contract, he'll almost certainly be stripped of the Captaincy.

Its a big ask for a first time young rookie coach like Scott to just come in and within weeks change captains. Scott is a very, very smart man and he knows Ling is a massive cult figure down in Geelong and is very popular with all. I do agree that Ling should be replaced with Selwood and I wish in a way that Ling would have taken it upon himself and personally resigned. But holding Sel back for another year isn't going to kills us. In 2012 we'll see a far different side than what we are seeing now and with Sel as skipper

You've got it in one. Those four will be retired (i.e. the decision will be made for them) Wojo will be form dependant, and Scarlett is the only one who will be allowed to decide when he retires. Assuming Ling wasn't carrying an injury this year (if his foot was indeed broken that might change our view obviously) his rapid slowness indicates that a continued trend of that will ensure that in 12 months he definitely isn't best 22 anymore, so in the interests of fair team selection, Scott will have to take the captaincy off him. In any case, I suspect this won't need to happen because Ling will probably know his body is telling him it's time, and retire in 12 months, much like Harley knew his body was telling him the same thing at the same age and made the same decision. In the interests of stability, as you say, I doubt Scott will make the change now, and he'll know the potential for disharmony is much less if he lets Ling make the call himself. But like I said, if Ling tries to hang on as captain beyond next year, he will be pushed, and that will be sad, so I hope he knows when it's time and makes the call himself.

 

[AM]

Chris is a very astute operator and will take a leaf from the Collingwood play book and use the senior cits largely as top-up players as the Maggies did with Fraser, Medhurst, Anthony, O'Bree and a few others.

I hope Linga takes the initiative re the captaincy because it's time for generational change and he's no longer a walk up start as a ones player. I'd suggest the playing group will include him as part of their leadership group, however, so it will take a decision higher up the hierarchy to pass over him as skipper.

Oh, and I don't know what the contributor who suggested Selwood isn't a leader is on.

 

[cats23]

Personally, I don't think Scott will be to keen to come straight in and strip the captaincy off Ling. He won't want to be seen making hasty, rash decisions that may cause disharmony at the club.

I think he'll tread a little carefully in his first year. I believe he'll make massive changes at the end of season 2011. I think he'll give Milburn, Mooney, Ottens, Ling and maybe Wojinski the tap on the shoulder. Even if Ling does get another contract, he'll almost certainly be stripped of the Captaincy.

Its a big ask for a first time young rookie coach like Scott to just come in and within weeks change captains. Scott is a very, very smart man and he knows Ling is a massive cult figure down in Geelong and is very popular with all. I do agree that Ling should be replaced with Selwood and I wish in a way that Ling would have taken it upon himself and personally resigned. But holding Sel back for another year isn't going to kills us. In 2012 we'll see a far different side than what we are seeing now and with Sel as skipper

Great post Smarty-totally agree with you (although I'd love Bartel to get the captaincy )

 

[bulletproof]

I'd keep Ling. There has been too many changes already this year.

Lets keep one thing the same.

Ling is a fabulous leader.

 

[moond0g]

short answer is yes.

you cant have someone as captain who may well be outside your best 22, and i'm affraid ling is just that.

whether we give the mantle to bartel for a while, give it to selwood straight away, or to an out there choice like a harry taylor, well thats a different question

 

[AndrewD]

I love Ling, but I really wish that they'd give the C to Selwood now.

New coach & new captain to hopefully lead us through the next decade.

I think it'll be a much bigger help to Scott if he's got Lingy there as captain in his first year. In 2012, when there's probably going to be a few retirements and a significant changing of the old guard, that'll be the best time to bring in a new captain.

 

[Smarty_]

Great post Smarty-totally agree with you (although I'd love Bartel to get the captaincy )

Thanks. Yeah, Bartel would be an excellent choice too. He's a very, very good leader and is extremely well spoken off the field and it wouldn't surprise me if they gave it to him for 2-3 years and then to Selwood after that. I certainly wouldn't object Jimmy. B being made captain

 

[Poetic Justice]

As a side note, those who say he may be let go or retire after 2011.. Isn't he a relatively tall bloke? Whilst he was one of the fittest players in the AFL up until not that long ago, wouldn't it be fair enough to suggest that if his fitness drops off a little it will still be relatively high?

As a result, couldn't you put Ling in the forward line? He's a good mark and kick afterall..

 

[ninjacat]

As a side note, those who say he may be let go or retire after 2011.. Isn't he a relatively tall bloke? Whilst he was one of the fittest players in the AFL up until not that long ago, wouldn't it be fair enough to suggest that if his fitness drops off a little it will still be relatively high?

As a result, couldn't you put Ling in the forward line? He's a good mark and kick afterall..

As someone mentioned previously in this thread, I think he should play the role that Maxy did in 2009. We all know what a great mark and kick he is for goal.

 

[ROCKETT24]

I just been doing a little thinking about this thread and the thought occoured to me...despite still being an intergral part of our team and game plan in 2010....whos saying that Linga will fit into Scotts game plan/style.

Whilst i think Ling should still be captain...if Scott is wanting to change things up, even just a little bit....Ling might not fit into Scotts best 22 to deliver such a gameplan.....

If this happens, then we ahve a captain who isnt even part of the team...what the hell happens then.

This thing with Harley was, he had 3 years left in him and there was stability (no GC17, Thompson still good) and long term prospects left in the club (6 years until 2012 as in...the end of Thompsons contract and pretty much a fair few guys carreers).

Ling is now captain and all of the sudden our stability is shaken up wiht no Ablett or Coach..and our long term prospects are much closer now, 2 years 2011/2012.

The biggest problem being a new coach, means new direction, new gameplan and some players dont fit into that plan becasue either

1: Too Old as of Round 1 2011
2: Not the right type of player.

No-one knows what type of player Scott is after, we all knew Thompson wanted big strong burly crash and bash players (majority of our team)....mixed in with a bit of finesse. Thats how Ablett/Stokes/Byrnes kept their places really.

If Scott is more after fast, defensive types (See Collingwood Centre Square 11) Byrnes/Stokes may be looking at a lot of VFL time this year...and the older players who can keep up will get to play. If Ling is neither defensive and cant keep up isnt that fast defensive type...jeepers.

 

[STC]

As a side note, those who say he may be let go or retire after 2011.. Isn't he a relatively tall bloke? Whilst he was one of the fittest players in the AFL up until not that long ago, wouldn't it be fair enough to suggest that if his fitness drops off a little it will still be relatively high?

As a result, couldn't you put Ling in the forward line? He's a good mark and kick afterall..

To be honest, I don't think it will work. He's not really mobile enough to play as a medium sized forward and he's not tall or strong enough to hold down a key position (not that we need another one). The problem is - when the ball goes to ground, will he be able to beat his opponent to the ball, pick it up and dish it off or kick the goal? I doubt it.

 

[AndrewD]

The problem is - when the ball goes to ground, will he be able to beat his opponent to the ball, pick it up and dish it off or kick the goal?

In a word, yes!

Lingy can very easily play as a defensive forward who provides a genuine scoring option. In 2010 Jake King at Richmond showed how valuable that type of player can be and he doesn't have Lingy's skills or size. A lot of teams build their attacking moves from half-back through players like Shaw, Hodge and Goddard. Lingy would be able to minimise their influence, apply pressure to keep the ball in the forward 50 and still be a viable forward (who can actually kick straight).

 

[Inferno]

Give Ling another year, then give it to Joel. I don't think he is as gone as people here suggest he is. He'll still be in this team for at least another two seasons.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

To be honest, I don't think it will work. He's not really mobile enough to play as a medium sized forward and he's not tall or strong enough to hold down a key position (not that we need another one). The problem is - when the ball goes to ground, will he be able to beat his opponent to the ball, pick it up and dish it off or kick the goal? I doubt it.

Offensively, Ling will be good forward, because he's a great mark, reads the play very well and is a good shot for goal.

But defensive pressure wise he won't be able to provide even remotely what Max did, because he is so slow. The reality is Max was great in that role, not just because he was so hard and went after defenders with a hunter mentality, but because he had the speed of movement to back it up, so defenders knew they had to fear being chased down by Max, and that created heaps of perceived pressure as well as actual pressure. No AFL defender is going to be losing any sleep at night worrying about having not much time to dispose of the pill, because they're worried Ling will chase them down, because they know he can't do it anywhere near to that degree.

That said, his slowness makes it impossible for Ling to play in the midfield anymore, and he'll be less of a liability for us as a forward than as a midfielder, so if Scott is keeping him as captain, expect to see him play there a lot next year.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I dont agree with the "captaincy based on years of service" way of thinking. I think the selection of Ling was a reward for service. We all love the guy and what he's done for the club but either Selwood or Ablett should have been given it.

Feel like I've said this a hundred times, but Ablett should never have been considered captaincy material. He was an iffy prospect to even show up to watch the boys run around when he was out injured. You wouldn't accept that from your local club's captain, let alone an AFL club captain. Great player, but not a skipper. Ling was an obvious choice. If the situation arose and Ling was five years younger, he still would have been the obvious choice.

I might be in a minority here but a captain's most important leadership has to be shown on the ground. He needs to be in the top 3 players in the team, not a guy that is arguably not in the 22.

I think there's some in between room here. Tom Harley wasn't near the top 3 Geelong players in 2007 and wasn't even in the same postcode in 2009. Seemed to work ok though. As long as you're a permanent fixture in the senior side, you should be right. Hard to see Ling getting dropped this year. I reckon he gets one more year as skipper, then over to Selwood and bad luck for Bartel, Kelly etc. Got to be in the right place at the right time.

I would argue during my time, the years we've had issues with our captain is when we gave it to the best player, not the best leader (Buddha, Ablett, Colbert).

 

[pinion]

definitely time for a new captain. it's a shame ling's reign will only last a year, but with a new coach who owes him no favours he's no certainty to be in the best 22, as others have said. selwood ticks all the boxes, but he's going to have to cope with being the number 1 midfielder and the tag that goes with it at the same time

 

[MachoRandySavage]

Must be Bartel with Selwood vice.

 

[maxy87]

I must admit there are question marks over Lings pace and fitness but I think that too much has changed in such a short space of time that maybe some stability would be a good thing. Ling has always been slow but what he lacked in pace he made up for in aerobic capacity, skill and heart. If he can get the body right he probably provides value for another year as skipper cos
a) he is well respected by the group and a strong leader
b) he is very experienced
c) is physically capable of standing up to physical pressure
d) he is a solid overhead mark and kick

Im sure there will be some use for him in 2011. He may be handy in the guts early on as a bigger body that can impose himself on a contest for a few minutes than drop into the forward line. He may also be handy out of the cage for 10 minute bursts while Hawkins may take a few taps and Pods or Moons have a breather on the pine. If we can get a bit creative he might still be servicable and he deserves a chance to show he can still cut it, especially as the skipper. One mustn't underestimate the value of a real leader in the team much like Harls 07-09.

Lingu could end up like Riccardi circa 05 and enjoyed watching him in that role coming off the pine to slot a major or two

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I think there's some in between room here. Tom Harley wasn't near the top 3 Geelong players in 2007 and wasn't even in the same postcode in 2009. Seemed to work ok though. As long as you're a permanent fixture in the senior side, you should be right. Hard to see Ling getting dropped this year. I reckon he gets one more year as skipper, then over to Selwood and bad luck for Bartel, Kelly etc. Got to be in the right place at the right time.

I would argue during my time, the years we've had issues with our captain is when we gave it to the best player, not the best leader (Buddha, Ablett, Colbert).

But that's the point, Ling isn't. Keep in mind Harley admitted that towards the end (i.e. 09) he only got selected in the team because he was captain, and he knew it (and therefore so did the playing group no doubt). I'm not having a go at Tommy, they are his words not mine.

For sure your captain doesn't need to be in your top half dozen players, I can think of several captains at other clubs but they are still the best man to be captain...but you have to have a captain who is not in the best 6, but definitely in the best 22, irrespective of whether he's captain.

Right now Ling is about 18th, and that might even be generous...he could well be 22 or 23 or 24th, and that's not really tenable.

I hope he has a great pre season, finds some run back in the legs, and proves my comments completely wrong, but that's an optimistic view.

 

[Aussiemac82]

Lings leadership is as strong as ever. With the rock solid deputies in chappy, jimmy, kelly and selwood, it is as formidable an on field leadership group as you can get.

If or when Lings fitness / performance becomes an issue, he would put the team first.

I think his directness and control will only help to develop the greenhorns which is vital for 2011.

 

[jim boy]

I hope Linga takes the initiative ....

He may, but the captaincy position is largely decided by the leadership group so I believe. Likewise Scott probably wont have much of a say.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

But that's the point, Ling isn't. Keep in mind Harley admitted that towards the end (i.e. 09) he only got selected in the team because he was captain, and he knew it (and therefore so did the playing group no doubt). I'm not having a go at Tommy, they are his words not mine.

For sure your captain doesn't need to be in your top half dozen players, I can think of several captains at other clubs but they are still the best man to be captain...but you have to have a captain who is not in the best 6, but definitely in the best 22, irrespective of whether he's captain.

Right now Ling is about 18th, and that might even be generous...he could well be 22 or 23 or 24th, and that's not really tenable.

I hope he has a great pre season, finds some run back in the legs, and proves my comments completely wrong, but that's an optimistic view.

It's a matter of opinion. In my opinion I don't see him being dropped in 2011, whether he has the (c) against his name or not. In your opinion, you can. Neither of us are wrong.

 

[AM]

Scott, who has been at Skilled Stadium for a month following two-time premiership coach Mark Thompson's departure, says the Cats' leadership structure will likely remain similar to what it was this year

Scott was happy with the condition the players presented in after they elected to return to training earlier than in the past following the Cats' failed September campaign.

"It's another indication to me the boys are up for the challenge," he said.

Go Chris!

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=105453

 

[Vdubs]

"At the end of the day", if Lingy is fit and useful on the ground, he is our best leader. If he loses more form and fitness than this year and gets dropped, we have others that can do the job, so not really an issue.