Autopsy Doggies Woof all over Cats by 47 points.

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Cataholic said:
Nope, I want to see more premierships, regularly.

Reckon everyone who endured the decades of nothingness will agree. We've got a lot to make up for..... we're still not content.

Younger supporters here will call it 4 premierships in 16 years. Older supporters see it as 4 premierships in 60 years.
Click to expand...
I don't approach or judge things I can't control on a scale of satisfaction.

It's not up to us, so it's a pointless exercise. I've got enormous faith in the club, and that's enough for me.

The very idea of being 'hungry for more' only works when it's up to you, your effort, and your commitment. That's the players and coaches jobs, not us.

They can control the outcome, not us.

And FWIW Lana, I did say I reckon that 5th flag isn't far away either, just that I'm not the type to whinge if it doesn't happen after our recent dominance.

Give us 20 years in the wilderness, and I'm sure I'll be less forgiving.
 
Cataholic said:
Nope, I want to see more premierships, regularly.

Reckon everyone who endured the decades of nothingness will agree. We've got a lot to make up for..... we're still not content.

Younger supporters here will call it 4 premierships in 16 years. Older supporters see it as 4 premierships in 60 years.
Click to expand...

And those in between see it as 4 premierships in 35 odd years
 

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Lana said:
We have tools at our disposal, and a plan how to use them to fullest effect. The plan is built to get our list wins on the MCG, it looks coherent and logical. Seeing us as a possible 12th team is ridiculous, moves from pessimism to cuckoldry. Seriously list the 11 teams you'd rate ahead of us even under the worst circumstances or put up your ladder predicter.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s as simple as that. There is every realistic chance north turns up on the weekend and knocks us off.

How does that gel with the logic of pick 11 team better than us??

The reality atm is most teams can beat anyone this year if they are in form.

It’s a cluster of mediocrity across the board with probably the academy swans closely followed by 2-3 or so teams who are just good but not great.
 
Lana said:
Golden mean fallacy is a thing. I say we'll win then next 4 premierships, you say we'll win zero. Lets just meet in the middle. If you meet me in the middle, I'll say we'll win the next 8 so we can meet in the middle again.

I know Scott isn't sitting satisfied, as long as we're experimenting with unconventional sets ups that maximise our talents, we're in with a chance and a chance is all you need every year. I believe we're a chance ever year until we're down 6 goals in the first quarter in a knockout final.
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Sure, there are times when GMF applies, but I believe we're discussing different aspects of the issue.

I wasn't trying to be overly analytical, but rather offering an ongoing commentary on the positive and negative trends we observe here each week with Vdubs, and various other posters who might skew more positively.

Reactions among posters vary significantly—some are strongly influenced by results weekly, while others are less affected.

Those who are more optimistic about our chances tend to view pessimism as unwarranted negativity.

Conversely, those with a more pessimistic outlook see optimism as misplaced.

Your point about GMF suggests that aiming for a balanced, consistent view and finding the middle ground over either extreme doesn't lead to an accurate representation of reality.

It's a sound premise, but it's not what I'm getting at.

My point was about maintaining consistent views, whether optimistic or pessimistic, rather than changing them based on a week or two of results and riding the weekly roller coaster of footy.

For instance, if we lose this week, our list management decisions shouldn't change dramatically compared to a win, or vice versa.

It's a different perspective to the "We're winning and everything's awesome" vs "We're losing and require a 5 year rebuild" trap that some fall into week by week.
 
Lana said:
We have tools at our disposal, and a plan how to use them to fullest effect. The plan is built to get our list wins on the MCG, it looks coherent and logical. Seeing us as a possible 12th team is ridiculous, moves from pessimism to cuckoldry. Seriously list the 11 teams you'd rate ahead of us even under the worst circumstances or put up your ladder predicter.
Click to expand...
As you can see on our ladder predictor thread, I do have us 5-8.
Realistically, with the evenness of this comp, there is very little difference between 13th and 5th- 2 wins. That is gettable between now and end rd 23.
I truly have no idea what we will dish up this weekend. Or any week. We could go 1-4, or 4-1
No longer do I believe our superior talent will be too much for NM. Losing Hawkins as he was in 21, 22, and a bit of 23 has been massive; that Hawkins Cameron combo has been a nightmare for opposition coaches, along with some small forwards, Danger, Selwood, Blicavs, Cam Guthrie, Stewart, I Smith, and Duncan.
Nowadays, I see us as overachieving on the rebuild.
Danger, Duncan, Blicavs, have all seen better days.
Cameron does not look consistently hungry.
Hawkins is about done.
Selwood and Smith retired.
None of these facts depresses me- it is part of the cycle of footy teams- what surprises me is that we are still there and abouts.
I can't and won't name 11 teams better than us, and I have not said we are a 12th team, but that range, given 23, is my estimate.
However, I have thought all year that Swans, Lions, Blues, Dogs, Freo, Port, GWS, Pies are superior lists to us. That doesn't mean they finish higher- we are well coached.
Also HGA, is hardly a factor for us this year.
This really is a very mixed bag season.
 
The AFL equalisation policy and years of trading away draft picks for top up players has finally caught up with us. It's a reason why we only have B and C graders in our midfield rotation. Our midfielders are at best hoping to nullify the opposing midfield. Often 3 opposition midfielders are matching the output of 5 of the best players in our midfield rotation. Until we can get a couple of players who can regularly get 25 to 30 disposals we will struggle to compete. Just one player like Adam Treloar would vastly improve Geelong's prospects. Look at Treloar's output against Geelong. 31 disposals, 3 goals, 6 marks, 8 tackles. That is what an A grade mid can do. Midfielders who kick goals, when was the last time Geelong had some of those. Atkins is one of our better midfielders but I can't recall the last time he kicked a goal.
 
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Kobe Gryant said:
I don't approach or judge things I can't control on a scale of satisfaction.

It's not up to us, so it's a pointless exercise. I've got enormous faith in the club, and that's enough for me.

The very idea of being 'hungry for more' only works when it's up to you, your effort, and your commitment. That's the players and coaches jobs, not us.

They can control the outcome, not us.

And FWIW Lana, I did say I reckon that 5th flag isn't far away either, just that I'm not the type to whinge if it doesn't happen after our recent dominance.

Give us 20 years in the wilderness, and I'm sure I'll be less forgiving.
Click to expand...
I got to see us win in 2022 live.
I got to see Joel's goal live.
I got to see him farewell the game as a premiership captain live.
I got to see him be the best human being for Levi, Archie and Sammy Moorfoot live.
I got to convert to a Isaac Smith fanboi live in the first quarter live.
I got celebrate with one of my cricket teammates as he watched one of his best mates PFD win that flag he craved live.

I am content. 2022 for me will make whatever happens from here pure gravy. Whether we win another flag or two or go a long time without another I got to see this club on one of its best all time days. Forever contented.
 
Art Vandelay_ said:
I got to see us win in 2022 live.
I got to see Joel's goal live.
I got to see him farewell the game as a premiership captain live.
I got to see him be the best human being for Levi, Archie and Sammy Moorfoot live.
I got to convert to a Isaac Smith fanboi live in the first quarter live.
I got celebrate with one of my cricket teammates as he watched one of his best mates PFD win that flag he craved live.

I am content. 2022 for me will make whatever happens from here pure gravy. Whether we win another flag or two or go a long time without another I got to see this club on one of its best all time days. Forever contented.
Click to expand...
I get it, but forever is a long time.
 
Vdubs said:
As you can see on our ladder predictor thread, I do have us 5-8.
Realistically, with the evenness of this comp, there is very little difference between 13th and 5th- 2 wins. That is gettable between now and end rd 23.
I truly have no idea what we will dish up this weekend. Or any week. We could go 1-4, or 4-1
No longer do I believe our superior talent will be too much for NM. Losing Hawkins as he was in 21, 22, and a bit of 23 has been massive; that Hawkins Cameron combo has been a nightmare for opposition coaches, along with some small forwards, Danger, Selwood, Blicavs, Cam Guthrie, Stewart, I Smith, and Duncan.
Nowadays, I see us as overachieving on the rebuild.
Danger, Duncan, Blicavs, have all seen better days.
Cameron does not look consistently hungry.
Hawkins is about done.
Selwood and Smith retired.
None of these facts depresses me- it is part of the cycle of footy teams- what surprises me is that we are still there and abouts.
I can't and won't name 11 teams better than us, and I have not said we are a 12th team, but that range, given 23, is my estimate.
However, I have thought all year that Swans, Lions, Blues, Dogs, Freo, Port, GWS, Pies are superior lists to us. That doesn't mean they finish higher- we are well coached.
Also HGA, is hardly a factor for us this year.
This really is a very mixed bag season.
Click to expand...

There is a reason why GC and GWS for their picks don't go anywhere. Why Port struggles against teams in the top 8. At this level every club with a fit list is full of talent, is easy to be considered an A-grader these days just accumulate the ball, the teams you list are full of those types of players. It the margins that get you. We own the margins, we have a wider squad then any other. Out of the bog that KP became and into the wings of the MCG we'll show it.

Hawkins is already gone, Guthrie is already gone, we've accomplished what we have without them. A bunch of others of yester years as well. It is not that we lost them, we never had them to begin with. We are where we are with our broken Vets. We have the best small forward group in the competition, we have the best ball users by foot on the outside. Ahead of the ball we have plenty of run. This type of talent is overlooked for conventional inside ball users and KPF.

Football is a game of phases and spacing. You can be deficient in all but one but if you trap the game there then you win.
Every year we have something we're better then every other club. Every year Scott is laser focused on getting us there and keeping us there for as long as possible. Clubs that are more generalist or more follow the leader-esque, fall into the trap. We won our first 7 games on teams trying to be 2023 Collingwood. We got our mojo back later in the year, when we had a synergy between what we were trying to do and what players we had in the 22. Our challenge is getting the ball in a closed situation, we don't win the contest we don't intercept, that's fine we don't need to win these areas as long as we're not beaten too bad we'll win it with efficiency.
 
Finknottle said:
The AFL equalisation policy and years of trading away draft picks for top up players has finally caught up with us. It's a reason why we only have B and C graders in our midfield rotation. Our midfielders are at best hoping to nullify the opposing midfield. Often 3 opposition midfielders are matching the output of 5 players in our midfield rotation. Until we can get a couple of players who can regularly get 25 to 30 disposals we will struggle to compete. Just one player like Adam Treloar would vastly improve Geelong's prospects. Look at Treloar's output against Geelong. 31 disposals, 3 goals, 6 marks, 8 tackles. That is what an A grade mid can do. Midfielders who kick goals, when was the last time Geelong had some of those. Atkins is one of our better midfielders but I can't remember the last time he kicked a goal.
Click to expand...
The need for topping up in the first place stems from missing on our earlier draft picks in the late 2000s and early 2010s.

Some of these misses were due to factors beyond anyone's control, such as injuries and off-field issues, while others were simply poor choices.

For the past five years, we haven't been engaged in topping up. We've been almost entirely draft and youth focused, it's just going to take some time for these fruits to bare.

Interestingly, we managed to mitigate any potential damage from the Cameron trade by acquiring Bruhn and Henry anyway

With Smith joining, and Bruhn, Clark, Holmes, and Dempsey hitting their stride, things will soon stabilize in that area. However, you're correct that we're currently facing challenges there.

Despite the prevailing pessimism, we've secured a flag and are on track to make the top eight while giving valuable game time and development to our players of the future.

Not bad for a transition year, wouldn't you agree?
 

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Cataholic said:
Nope, I want to see more premierships, regularly.

Reckon everyone who endured the decades of nothingness will agree. We've got a lot to make up for..... we're still not content.

Younger supporters here will call it 4 premierships in 16 years. Older supporters see it as 4 premierships in 60 years.
Click to expand...
We could all love that. But can't help think of the Saints and Freo fans- most have never seen one
Art Vandelay_ said:
Ask a saints fan. They'd take 1 flag.
We've all seen at least 4.

We've had the best ride.
Click to expand...
Spot on.
 
calder_daddy said:
Just like how against the pies Cameron dominated the ruck and we dominated the clearances?
Click to expand...
Cos our midfield was huge. If we won the ruck we would of won by even more.

Just because the winners of ruck dominance and clearances arent aligned on occassional examples doesnt mean there isnt a strong positive relationship between the two.
 
Kobe Gryant said:
I don't approach or judge things I can't control on a scale of satisfaction.

It's not up to us, so it's a pointless exercise. I've got enormous faith in the club, and that's enough for me.

The very idea of being 'hungry for more' only works when it's up to you, your effort, and your commitment. That's the players and coaches jobs, not us.

They can control the outcome, not us.

And FWIW Lana, I did say I reckon that 5th flag isn't far away either, just that I'm not the type to whinge if it doesn't happen after our recent dominance.

Give us 20 years in the wilderness, and I'm sure I'll be less forgiving.
Click to expand...

Take your last sentence and double the time span. That's what a good few of us endured.
 
Art Vandelay_ said:
I got to see us win in 2022 live.
I got to see Joel's goal live.
I got to see him farewell the game as a premiership captain live.
I got to see him be the best human being for Levi, Archie and Sammy Moorfoot live.
I got to convert to a Isaac Smith fanboi live in the first quarter live.
I got celebrate with one of my cricket teammates as he watched one of his best mates PFD win that flag he craved live.

I am content. 2022 for me will make whatever happens from here pure gravy. Whether we win another flag or two or go a long time without another I got to see this club on one of its best all time days. Forever contented.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong - the satisfaction since 2007 has been enormous, and I'm very grateful to have witnessed it.

But the scars from the 40+ years prior to 2007 are deep, and I'd be happy to see us win as many more premierships as possible until I depart this mortal life.
 
Cataholic said:
For sure.

It must be a heartache being a Saints fan.

On the other hand, my partner has seen 12 premierships. She laughs at our 4.
Click to expand...
How does that even work?
I admire your tolerance.
 
Cataholic said:
Nope, I want to see more premierships, regularly.

Reckon everyone who endured the decades of nothingness will agree. We've got a lot to make up for..... we're still not content.

Younger supporters here will call it 4 premierships in 16 years. Older supporters see it as 4 premierships in 60 years.
Click to expand...

cats_09 said:
And those in between see it as 4 premierships in 35 odd years
Click to expand...
In an 18 team competition:

  • 4 in 60 years is slightly better than should be expected
  • 4 in 35 years is significantly better than should be expected
  • 4 in 16 years is outrageously better than expected

Let that sink in.

If someone offered me 4 flags over the next 35 years I would take it with glee.

Couple that with the number of finals we have played in, the ridiculously low number of “inconsequential” games we play in, the number of champions we have seen play the game.

Nearly all clubs have to suck for 5 years winning less than 7-8 games every year to regenerate their list. We do it while making finals and challenging for the top 4.

We have had (and continue to have) an unbelievably charmed run.

I have long thought this, and this year has reinforced my belief - we have some of the most entitled supporters in the league. Most of them have no idea how good we have got it.
 
Baudolino said:
Weird stat: SDK is our only player who has an active 5 game streak of 20 or more disposals.
Click to expand...

Fox had a stat on rucks - broke it into ruck taps and around the ground effectiveness over last 10 games or so.
SDK didn't feature due to the games played but no doubt he would be well up there in terms of around the ground performance.
With Conway out and Stanley on the nose looks like he'll be ruck for a while. This could be a bonus if his tapwork improves and he maintains his possession numbers.
However that leaves us very short in defence so do we promote Jeka or COS or run with Blitz ?
Not sure on Jeka and COS is 1 or 2 preseasons off so I think Blitz has to go back to defence if we are to be competitive in September.
 

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