Opinion Do we REALLY want Jack Steven from St. Kilda?

[TomsBulgingDisc]

Interestingly, Mitch Cleary is saying if Steven doesn't get to Geelong he might end up walking away from footy.

Don't know what to make of that....

If he's willing to walk away then best we let him do that before we waste a pick, time and coin on him.

 

[AM]

Charlie Constable for Steven straight swap.

You clearly pay no attention to SW's comments. In summary they were - Charlie wants to stay. We want him to stay. He's staying.

SW is playing this very well. Steven has apparently said that if he doesn't get to the Cats he'll likely give it away. SW has also said we are quite some way off getting the deal done knowing the Saints need cap relief in order to accommodate the likes of Hill and others and only we can offer that relief.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Firstly I didn’t want to give up pick 6. There’s fire sale at the Crows.

Secondly, You can approach for Ben, but he’s only going to StK. His Bros there. He went for them as a kid and his family already treat him as a Saints player.

Mighty territorial over a kid that's not on your list

 

[Ricketz]

Not a personal jibe at you, but you guys who are putting time frames around recovery from mental illness/health are full of s**t, and should stop talking about things you have no idea about. There is no time frame, end if story.

Not at all. I am more than seven years into it myself. Just trying to put context in there.

 

[Turbocat]

FULL INTERVIEW: Stephen Wells - Geelong's list boss

There's plenty to chat about with the Cats.

player.whooshkaa.com

Did any one catch the undertone in wells.... he seems to be icing down the trade a bit...


If he came to geelong... that one is a now a long way off ... with trade TPP comes in it..

 

[TomsBulgingDisc]

Not at all. I am more than seven years into it myself. Just trying to put context in there.

I'm sorry to hear you're struggling. I've known the path all too well.
Your post was just the last in a long precession of quotes from multiple posters over the past few days about time frames, hence the quote.

It's a bug bear of mine to hear people spread misinformation based on feel-pinions, or something they read on the net. Like you've pointed out, people may deal with deperssive illness for varying periods of time, elite sports people are no different; (interestingly, we've all assumed his MH issue is depression/mood related, but we've dismissed the possibility it may be a psychotic illness, personality disorder or.... Dun dun dunnnn... A substance abuse disorder, which is classified as a mental health disorder in the DSM V.)
But I've digressed; point being, there is no time frame around recovery. Some people never recover, just manage their illness as best they can. Some people can have an episode, recover in a short time and never relapse. There's no prescribed time frame.

With that said, I don't think he's a good target despite some frothers believing he's the messiah... For the next year or two anyeay. His MH concerns are only a small part in why I wouldn't select him, not because he has a MH concern, more that it's already cost him game time, and that's not something I want as a base line for a new comer to the club. (Insert Mitch Clark thread here). It would be no different than if he'd done a knee last year and missed a stack of footy, I just wouldnt take the risk as a recruiter.

 

[Ricketz]

I'm sorry to hear you're struggling. I've known the path all too well.
Your post was just the last in a long precession of quotes from multiple posters over the past few days about time frames, hence the quote.

It's a bug bear of mine to hear people spread misinformation based on feel-pinions, or something they read on the net. Like you've pointed out, people may deal with deperssive illness for varying periods of time, elite sports people are no different; (interestingly, we've all assumed his MH issue is depression/mood related, but we've dismissed the possibility it may be a psychotic illness, personality disorder or.... Dun dun dunnnn... A substance abuse disorder, which is classified as a mental health disorder in the DSM V.)
But I've digressed; point being, there is no time frame around recovery. Some people never recover, just manage their illness as best they can. Some people can have an episode, recover in a short time and never relapse. There's no prescribed time frame.

With that said, I don't think he's a good target despite some frothers believing he's the messiah... For the next year or two anyeay. His MH concerns are only a small part in why I wouldn't select him, not because he has a MH concern, more that it's already cost him game time, and that's not something I want as a base line for a new comer to the club. (Insert Mitch Clark thread here). It would be no different than if he'd done a knee last year and missed a stack of footy, I just wouldnt take the risk as a recruiter.

All good my man.

 

[TheMenz Gallery]

I’ve heard a few comments that “we don’t need him, he’s not going to make our side any better” but the reality is with losing Tim Kelly our side for next year is already worse than this year. We need a readymade Star to make us as good and the 2 first rounders we get for Kelly will make us a better side.

I’ve also heard a few people say “he has won 4 b&f in a poor side.” An average footballer might be able to fluke 1 b&f if the majority of the top 10 players missed huge chunks of footy throughout the year but you have to be a star or the worlds luckiest man to win 4 b&f.
To be drafted to the Saints doesn’t strike me as being lucky.

Get the deal done I says!!!

 

[Purrfect pussy]

I’ve heard a few comments that “we don’t need him, he’s not going to make our side any better” but the reality is with losing Tim Kelly our side for next year is already worse than this year. We need a readymade Star to make us as good and the 2 first rounders we get for Kelly will make us a better side.

I’ve also heard a few people say “he has won 4 b&f in a poor side.” An average footballer might be able to fluke 1 b&f if the majority of the top 10 players missed huge chunks of footy throughout the year but you have to be a star or the worlds luckiest man to win 4 b&f.
To be drafted to the Saints doesn’t strike me as being lucky.

Get the deal done I says!!!

That’s wishful thinking, it could make us a better side, but we could pick up a Smedts and a Lang. It’s possible Steven doesn’t even end up on the park.

I can understand us being hesitant on Steven. He isn’t worth a second round pick going off this past season. If we get the Steven of prior seasons it could be a huge success but with his mental battles you can never be sure of what we are going to get.

I hope we get the deal done but only for a late selection. We can’t have another Mitch Clark.

 

[Vdubs]

That’s wishful thinking, it could make us a better side, but we could pick up a Smedts and a Lang. It’s possible Steven doesn’t even end up on the park.

I can understand us being hesitant on Steven. He isn’t worth a second round pick going off this past season. If we get the Steven of prior seasons it could be a huge success but with his mental battles you can never be sure of what we are going to get.

I hope we get the deal done but only for a late selection. We can’t have another Mitch Clark.

It certainly is a high risk if he costs what he should have been worth.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I’ve heard a few comments that “we don’t need him, he’s not going to make our side any better” but the reality is with losing Tim Kelly our side for next year is already worse than this year. We need a readymade Star to make us as good and the 2 first rounders we get for Kelly will make us a better side.

I’ve also heard a few people say “he has won 4 b&f in a poor side.” An average footballer might be able to fluke 1 b&f if the majority of the top 10 players missed huge chunks of footy throughout the year but you have to be a star or the worlds luckiest man to win 4 b&f.
To be drafted to the Saints doesn’t strike me as being lucky.

Get the deal done I says!!!

Narkle steps up, becomes a star.

Or

Steven starts off well, starts to splutter. Gets issues. We perserve. In and out of the side. Ends with a whimper. Essendon is in Narkle's
(or whoever is missing out) ear midway, we lose him season's end.

BTW, Narkle may end up better than Kelly. Let them grow!!! Stop stiffling potential with all these go nowhere instant hits (and misses).

 

[Vdubs]

Narkle steps up, becomes a star.

Or

Steven starts off well, starts to splutter. Gets issues. We perserve. In and out of the side. Ends with a whimper. Essendon is in Narkle's
(or whoever is missing out) ear midway, we lose him season's end.

BTW, Narkle may end up better than Kelly. Let them grow!!! Stop stiffling potential with all these go nowhere instant hits (and misses).

Why not--->

Narkle steps up and becomes a star

AND

Steven is good for a season or 2.

We will lose Ablett after 2020, Danger may become more a forward, Selwood has an imminent use by date

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Why not--->

Narkle steps up and becomes a star

AND

Steven is good for a season or 2.

We will lose Ablett after 2020, Danger may become more a forward, Selwood has an imminent use by date

Remember when Danger turned up and we got stuck into the mids for not doing more, and how they had gone backward compared to their previous year's output? Even though the first part of the season was literally, the "Dangerfield Show!" We never seem to get roles and also there is only one ball and one play. You put a dominant player in the middle that isn't a distributor, and thats what happens.

Remember when Tippett? Then Buddy showed up.

There are only so many positions and there are so many roles. And the pecking order in the midfield is tight. Even check out the different roles Danger and Selwood played in the prelim and how that affected both players output. Even when Danger was in the play in the third, he was second banana to Selwood. And that was not Danger hanging back. He knew his role.

So I'm saying, give Narkle a go! Give our youth a go. And Constable. Unless they are fielding 20 on the field in 2020?

WCE kept on putting Kelly in the corner ("next year, son") and we got 2 good years out of him.

 

[Vdubs]

Remember when Danger turned up and we got stuck into the mids for not doing more, and how they had gone backward compared to their previous year's output? Even though the first part of the season was literally, the "Dangerfield Show!" We never seem to get roles and also there is only one ball and one play. You put a dominant player in the middle that isn't a distributor, and thats what happens.

Remember when Tippett? Then Buddy showed up.

There are only so many positions and there are so many roles. And the pecking order in the midfield is tight. Even check out the different roles Danger and Selwood played in the prelim and how that affected both players output. Even when Danger was in the play in the third, he was second banana to Selwood. And that was not Danger hanging back. He knew his role.

So I'm saying, give Narkle a go! Give our youth a go. And Constable. Unless they are fielding 20 on the field in 2020?

WCE kept on putting Kelly in the corner ("next year, son") and we got 2 good years out of him.

Narkle will be given a go; they rate him. But they have no idea about his resilience and durability, and if GAJ is playing another season, it spells to everyone that we are going flat out to contend one more time. The timing is ripe for GAJ, Hawkins, Selwood and Taylor. Maybe even Danger in that group. Fair to say it won't be beyond 2020.

 

[Partridge]

That’s wishful thinking, it could make us a better side, but we could pick up a Smedts and a Lang. It’s possible Steven doesn’t even end up on the park.

I can understand us being hesitant on Steven. He isn’t worth a second round pick going off this past season. If we get the Steven of prior seasons it could be a huge success but with his mental battles you can never be sure of what we are going to get.

I hope we get the deal done but only for a late selection. We can’t have another Mitch Clark.

Oh we can, and my bet is we will.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Narkle will be given a go; they rate him. But they have no idea about his resilience and durability, and if GAJ is playing another season, it spells to everyone that we are going flat out to contend one more time. The timing is ripe for GAJ, Hawkins, Selwood and Taylor. Maybe even Danger in that group. Fair to say it won't be beyond 2020.

If resiliance and durability is an issue, no problem. We don't get Steven.

I think this squad's time has come and gone as far as a real tilt a the premiership goes. Unless a couple of the youngsters really stand up in the middle. And Narkle would be the most likely. Another surprise packet would be Tom Aktins. No risk, no reward.

 

[Vdubs]

If resiliance and durability is an issue, no problem. We don't get Steven.

I think this squad's time has come and gone as far as a real tilt a the premiership goes. Unless a couple of the youngsters really stand up in the middle. And Narkle would be the most likely. Another surprise packet would be Tom Aktins. No risk, no reward.

You might, but clearly CS and the MC don't.
Why else keep GAJ and Taylor?
I did. 2019 was the year I thought. Ok, correction, one last tilt- 2020.
During 19, I definitely thought we were off the pace, despite top spot.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

You might, but clearly CS and the MC don't.
Why else keep GAJ and Taylor?
I did. 2019 was the year I thought. Ok, correction, one last tilt- 2020.
During 19, I definitely thought we were off the pace, despite top spot.

Ablett is not going to win us a GF!

Taylor is on his last legs. And if Danger was going to win us a GF, he would have already done so. All these guys are great players, but known quantities and have repeatedly fallen short. We win a GF next year, and it will be because they have taken a step back. The young'ns got a taste of it this season. Lets put them to the forefront next. They are the ones who will win it for us.

 

[CatRiot]

I think Pick 33 and some salary payment from STK for his last season of his existing contract sounds about right.
Its one last crack I feel, until the rebuild is complete in some 3-4 years.
We still have 2 first round picks to add class to the list from the TK deal. 4 first round picks for next two seasons is perfect timing for this rebuild.

 

[Down at K Park]

Not totally happy, should have been pick 52. But if they are paying a chunk of his salary then meh. Hopefully he hits the track hard once the deal is done, and puts down the fork.

Really needs to set a good example by turning up to day one of pre-season in better shape.

 

[Vdubs]

Ablett is not going to win us a GF!

Taylor is on his last legs. And if Danger was going to win us a GF, he would have already done so. All these guys are great players, but known quantities and have repeatedly fallen short. We win a GF next year, and it will be because they have taken a step back. The young'ns got a taste of it this season. Lets put them to the forefront next. They are the ones who will win it for us.

I don't have that faith, sadly. About winning a flag. If we were unable to do so WITH GAJ, Danger, Sel, Kelly, Taylor, relatively fit, I feel the next tier will fall shorter. They are good support acts til proven otherwise. Miers showed plenty. Sav could be anything. Is CC better than GHS? Clark will miss preseason.

 

[Cronin]

Yep, I really want him, think he'll be great for us

 

[Wojcinski]

I think Pick 33 and some salary payment from STK for his last season of his existing contract sounds about right.
Its one last crack I feel, until the rebuild is complete in some 3-4 years.
We still have 2 first round picks to add class to the list from the TK deal. 4 first round picks for next two seasons is perfect timing for this rebuild.

My thoughts exactly, 14, 17, 24 and 36 this year - hopefully Wells nails 2 or 3 of these and then two firsts next year (and we get to death ride WCE all season)

 

[Warhorse]

Don't want. Yuck

 

[TheMenz Gallery]

That’s wishful thinking, it could make us a better side, but we could pick up a Smedts and a Lang. It’s possible Steven doesn’t even end up on the park.

I can understand us being hesitant on Steven. He isn’t worth a second round pick going off this past season. If we get the Steven of prior seasons it could be a huge success but with his mental battles you can never be sure of what we are going to get.

I hope we get the deal done but only for a late selection. We can’t have another Mitch Clark.

You’re right it is possible he may never play but if we pass on him and go to the draft, it’s more likely the untried 18 yr old we pick up with a later pick is even more unlikely to play a game. Take last years late picks Jarvis, Kennerly, Tarca & Brownless are still yet to debut. Of what I’ve seen from them, only 1 looks likely to play senior footy and if and when he comes in he will perform to a fringe standard until he finds his feet at that level. Give me a proven match winner any day.

As for the mental health issues, I’ll leave that alone, there are far more educated posters on the topic. If it’s possible he could be another Mitch Clark then it’s also possible he could be another Luke Dahlhaus, who had his issues in his last two years at the dogs before finishing 6th in our b&f this year.