Do you think it is possible? To build a team like our 07-11 in the modern era??

[iameviljez]

Yes, of course it's possible. I don't see what's changed so significantly that it can't happen.

That team was built around having two players who are in the all-time Best 22 for the entire league (Scarlett and GAJ). That's huge, but there's no reason it's impossible.

 

[Hamingja]

Yes, of course it's possible. I don't see what's changed so significantly that it can't happen.

Talent pool smaller
Two (soon to be three) extra teams for that talent to go around. That's over 120 extra players required and it dilutes the draft significantly for everyone else

 

[thejester]

Talent pool smaller
Two (soon to be three) extra teams for that talent to go around. That's over 120 extra players required and it dilutes the draft significantly for everyone else

Population has grown by a third since 1999 and the league is consistently producing high end juniors from Queensland and NSW now. Talent pool isn’t an issue.

 

[Hamingja]

Population growth is majorly down to migrants from Asia (China and the subcontinent) and there is very little interest in football in those communities. People live a more sedentary life these days, with local football clubs merging and going under all over the place. On a comparative basis going from 16 to soon to be 19 teams, the talent pool is way down to when we built through the draft.

 

[Seeds]

Do you think in the modern era of equalisation measures,freeagency, additional teams and academy compromises to the draft that we could build together a list as elite as our 07-11 one?? If so.. How would you achieve it in todays landscape?? Whats the blueprint??

Discuss.

Its easier now with free agency. Instead of having 1 gun import (ottens) you can have 7 gun imports.

We would of had this is 2016-22 if we didnt stop stuffing up our first round draft picks (and didnt go down the ridiculous ultra defensive plan of 2016-2020)

 

[Strange Cat]

With Tassie and the expansion teams it makes it’s all that much harder…in saying that if Wells/mackie do it again they can claim godhood and deserves statues out the front of KP

 

[catstragic]

We did it with 3-4 good trades and exceptional drafting. That’s always gonna be doable (but not easy).

We were lucky- Us and Hawthorn managed to concentrate an usual amount of talent within just two lists at the same time that the expansion clubs diluted the draft.

 

[you pick one]

Yes it will always remain a possibility at least as long as you can maintain your strong destination club status without that no hope.

 

[DanA]

We were lucky- Us and Hawthorn managed to concentrate an usual amount of talent within just two lists at the same time that the expansion clubs diluted the draft.

The Suns inaugural season was 2011 and they took our best player coming into it. We built the bulk of our premiership list well before expansion clubs impacted the draft.

 

[TheMenz Gallery]

100% it’s possible to be a team like that again. Since our reign two other club have since won 3 flags each.
I guess the question I would like answered is how far away are we from doing it again?
I’m very excited by the young kids coming through who will play a lot of footy together for the next 10 years but there is no Ablett, Danger, Selwood and Hawkins amongst them. Until we draft / trade for similar calibre players we might have to settle for only one flag instead of a dynasty. Which would still be a fantastic result.

 

[DanA]

Population growth is majorly down to migrants from Asia (China and the subcontinent) and there is very little interest in football in those communities. People live a more sedentary life these days, with local football clubs merging and going under all over the place. On a comparative basis going from 16 to soon to be 19 teams, the talent pool is way down to when we built through the draft.

Grass roots talent pool is way down, elite pathways is way up.

 

[DanA]

It doesn’t take much change.

What if for instance we took Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

and Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

30

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

instead of Thurlow and Hamling. There are still plenty of bargains in the draft so it’s alway possible but definitely unlikely.

 

[frggr]

I think these days it's more difficult.

The academies, NGA etc make it hard.

The talent pools and strategies Geelong used back then are now used by pretty much everyone (though Wellsy has evolved, too).

The draft talent is analysed way more (no more Richard Ramblings, you'd think) and more tampered with than ever before.

 

[frggr]

It doesn’t take much change.

What if for instance we took Lachie Neale and Brodie Grundy instead of Thurlow and Hamling. There are still plenty of bargains in the draft so it’s alway possible but definitely unlikely.

Pretty sure Grundy was hellbent on getting to a Melbourne club, but that aside, it's an interesting alternate history.

Can't say I'd like Neale in a Geelong jumper though, not a fan of the way he goes about it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Its easier now with free agency. Instead of having 1 gun import (ottens) you can have 7 gun imports.

We would of had this is 2016-22 if we didnt stop stuffing up our first round draft picks (and didnt go down the ridiculous ultra defensive plan of 2016-2020)

I haven’t posted at all on this page for months and I don’t intend to again for months.

But this is a blatant fallacy.

In 2014 we averaged 88 points per game.
In 2015 we averaged 91 points per game.

Then suddenly we ‘adopted a ridiculous ultra defensive game plan’ and started kicking 99, 94 and 91 points per game in 16, 17 and 18 did we?

We then averaged 88 per game in 2019, and adjusted for the shorter quarters we averaged 90 in 2020.

We went back to 81 in 2021, and 99 in 2022.

Christ this place likes some revisionism.

Newsflash: none of those approaches or averages, aside from 2020 and 2022, brought us closer or further to a flag than any other.

Prior to all of that we averaged over 100 in 2013 for the last time. Didn’t get us to a grand final did it.

 

[Kitcat]

I haven’t posted at all on this page for months and I don’t intend to again for months.

But this is a blatant fallacy.

In 2014 we averaged 88 points per game.
In 2015 we averaged 91 points per game.

Then suddenly we ‘adopted a ridiculous ultra defensive game plan’ and started kicking 99, 94 and 91 points per game in 16, 17 and 18 did we?

We then averaged 88 per game in 2019, and adjusted for the shorter quarters we averaged 90 in 2020.

We went back to 81 in 2021, and 99 in 2022.

Christ this place likes some revisionism.

Newsflash: none of those approaches or averages, aside from 2020 and 2022, brought us closer or further to a flag than any other.

Prior to all of that we averaged over 100 in 2013 for the last time. Didn’t get us to a grand final did it.

We had a style of slow ball movement out of defence that limited turnovers. It was successful in home and away games but failed in high speed finals.

 

[PhatBoy]

We had a style of slow ball movement out of defence that limited turnovers. It was successful in home and away games but failed in high speed finals.

It failed in six of those seasons that were ultimately won by teams who, like us before them and Brisbane before us, were all time great sides. The minutiae and level of nitpicking that has been done over this is mind meltingly pedantic especially when aligned to the level of players who were in the sides that were fielded. It wasn’t because the speed of ball movement was 2.53 per cent too slow or the angle of alignment wasn’t direct enough on 3.86 per cent of surges forward towards this particular quadrant of the ground.

It’s because we weren’t the best team.

 

[Seeds]

I haven’t posted at all on this page for months and I don’t intend to again for months.

But this is a blatant fallacy.

In 2014 we averaged 88 points per game.
In 2015 we averaged 91 points per game.

Then suddenly we ‘adopted a ridiculous ultra defensive game plan’ and started kicking 99, 94 and 91 points per game in 16, 17 and 18 did we?

We then averaged 88 per game in 2019, and adjusted for the shorter quarters we averaged 90 in 2020.

We went back to 81 in 2021, and 99 in 2022.

Christ this place likes some revisionism.

Newsflash: none of those approaches or averages, aside from 2020 and 2022, brought us closer or further to a flag than any other.

Prior to all of that we averaged over 100 in 2013 for the last time. Didn’t get us to a grand final did it.

Sorry i was being kind. It was actually 2016-2021 with a couple of games where we switched to a more agressuive game plan in 2020-21.

Also looking solely at scores is inaccurate as scores arent solely determined by game plan. The quality of the team also influences that as well. Our team list was much stronger between 2016-20 then 2014-15 years. Because of the gun ringers we started bringing in from 2016 and a terrible run with injuries in 2015.

Ps. The best way to determine the game plan is to simply look at the game plan. Not scores.

 

[PhatBoy]

Sorry i was being kind. It was actually 2016-2021 with a couple of games where we switched to a more agressuive game plan in 2020-21.

Also looking solely at scores is inaccurate as scores arent solely determined by game plan. The quality of the team also influences that as well. Our team list was much stronger between 2016-20 then 2014-15 years. Because of the gun ringers we started bringing in from 2016 and a terrible run with injuries in 2015.

Ps. The best way to determine the game plan is to simply look at the game plan. Not scores.

Well it isn’t.
Because adopting a ridiculously defensive gameplan would mean a ridiculous gap in point scoring to other seasons. Correct me if im wrong but a cricketer adopting a ridiculously defensive approach can’t have a strike rate akin to the innings in which he adopts an aggressive one can he.


Anyway, good to know the losses are still ok when it’s under the parameters that suit people but even a decade later the bed-wetting from those that know better still can’t accept that quite simply we weren’t good enough.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Well it isn’t.
Because adopting a ridiculously defensive gameplan would mean a ridiculous gap in point scoring to other seasons. Correct me if im wrong but a cricketer adopting a ridiculously defensive approach can’t have a strike rate akin to the innings in which he adopts an aggressive one can he.


Anyway, good to know the losses are still ok when it’s under the parameters that suit people but even a decade later the bed-wetting from those that know better still can’t accept that quite simply we weren’t good enough.

Agreed.

It's Richmond esque arrogance to think we've been the best team almost every year for nearly 20 years, and have somehow fallen short.

We are the best club this century over the collective, but we haven't been the best side every single year, such is the nature of any sport...let alone one with equalization measures.

There's only two that you could mount an argument for as flags that potentially got away IMO.

- '08 (for obvious reasons)

- '13 (simply because the prelim was so tight, and we would've played a Dockers outfit with stage fright a week later)

Every other year we either weren't good enough, or just ran into a dynasty side in the middle of their era.

Not dissimilar to what Collingwood & the Bulldogs had happen to them regularly with us when we were at our peak.

When you're genuinely the best side in it, there's little need for excuses and luck.

There was a vibe around '07, '09, '11, & '22 that wasn't there in other years, and that's the feeling you get as a supporter when you know deep down it's your flag to lose.

 

[Kitcat]

Well it isn’t.
Because adopting a ridiculously defensive gameplan would mean a ridiculous gap in point scoring to other seasons. Correct me if im wrong but a cricketer adopting a ridiculously defensive approach can’t have a strike rate akin to the innings in which he adopts an aggressive one can he.


Anyway, good to know the losses are still ok when it’s under the parameters that suit people but even a decade later the bed-wetting from those that know better still can’t accept that quite simply we weren’t good enough.

You are equating slow safe movement out of defence with low scoring. I didn't say that. It is obviously wrong as from 2016 to 2021 we finished 2, 2, 8, 1, 4 and 3, so we were far outscoring most of the opposition, but we couldn't turn those dominant ladder positions into more than one Grand final. Four different clubs won flags in that period. Think about the first half of the 2020 GF when we were on top, and in the second half the ball movement froze, letting Richmond take the initiative.

 

[PhatBoy]

You are equating slow safe movement out of defence with low scoring. I didn't say that. It is obviously wrong as from 2016 to 2021 we finished 2, 2, 8, 1, 4 and 3, so we were far outscoring most of the opposition, but we couldn't turn those dominant ladder positions into more than one Grand final. Four different clubs won flags in that period. Think about the first half of the 2020 GF when we were on top, and in the second half the ball movement froze, letting Richmond take the initiative.

Yeah I think there was a slightly more significant factor at play in the 2020 grand final.

Anyway, there’s my brief appearance from the cocoon for now.