Preview Rd 11 Geelong V GWS Sat 25th May 2024 434 pm @ KP

[Turbocat]

There’s a late change coming I reckon.


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Id agree but I think its Mannagh in.

 

[Turbocat]

Its clear to me that he only has so many kms left (if any) in his legs no point wasting them in the VFL

Either legs or the motivation etc.

 

[Turbocat]

Feels like we're pushing fast forward on this rebuild.

Guthrie, Danger and Rohan all out injured but we drop Parfitt and O'Connor. We're looking for players with higher ceilings than them. Understandable with Parfitt but a touch harsh on O'Connor I think. Hopefully this is a reset for him.

Also left out Bews and Stanley.

We've selected 7 under 22s who didn't play in the 2022 GF (Holmes would have) plus Mullin as inexperienced players.

Bit of a message for those not selected then. Hardie not even an emg.

 

[Turbocat]

Have any of you guys who think Hardie is no good ever watched him play? The VFL games are streamed live on the AFL App. Are you aware he is leading the coaches voting in the VFL? There seems to be a total disconnect between what the coaches think and what several posters on this board think. If you can watch Hardie play then you may be in a position to judge him.

Id think its the non selection that is more indicative than any opinion on here. If a mid 20’s aged mid is not being selected its probably fair to question his relevance

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I don’t agree that would be fine. The time has come to do more. He needs to make a mark.

The time has come to make a mark if his ceiling is Tom Lynch. Are you delisting him if his ceiling is Mitch Lewis?

 

[CHAWKTS]

So CS confirmed that Clark will NOT be the sub. He said he doesn’t normally answer those questions but “you got me”.

Now I don’t believe he was “got” for a second so he had a reason I suspect to rule Clark out of being sub - maybe a confidence thing?

That means Atkins is surely firm favourite as Sub then?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

So CS confirmed that Clark will NOT be the sub. He said he doesn’t normally answer those questions but “you got me”.

Now I don’t believe he was “got” for a second so he had a reason I suspect to rule Clark out of being sub - maybe a confidence thing?

That means Atkins is surely firm favourite as Sub then?

I love Axe but if he's playing backline then we have better options.

 

[allrighty]

Ideally he'd develop into something useful at AFL level but even if he doesn't, players can provide value without playing in the AFL especially while he is on a base wage. He the best player in our VFL team. Last year we were completely uncompetitive. Getting smashed each week isn't great for development, as players especially forwards can't mimic the roles they are being prepared for.

Yeah much and all as I would like to see him get a gig (maybe next week???) the other option is he is now there to mentor kids and push the AFL borderline players

 

[Footy Smarts]

So CS confirmed that Clark will NOT be the sub. He said he doesn’t normally answer those questions but “you got me”.

Now I don’t believe he was “got” for a second so he had a reason I suspect to rule Clark out of being sub - maybe a confidence thing?

That means Atkins is surely firm favourite as Sub then?

Surely with Parfitt not in the team Atkins goes back to his role as a defensive mid. Bowes, Tuohy, Duncan, Dempsey and Mullin all seem decent chances as sub.

 

[Finknottle]

Surely with Parfitt not in the team Atkins goes back to his role as a defensive mid. Bowes, Tuohy, Duncan, Dempsey and Mullin all seem decent chances as sub.

If Atkins is a defensive mid then what is O'Connor when he tags a midfielder like Neale from the Lions?

 

[Footy Smarts]

If Atkins is a defensive mid then what is O'Connor when he tags a midfielder like Neale from the Lions?

O'Connor only played midfield as a genuine tagger trying to stop a particular player's impact. Parfitt and Atkins are both defence first players concentrating on pressure and tackling but not focusing on a specific player.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I agree that he needs to start doing more to command being picked in the AFL side, and he can't just continue playing good but not great VFL games. And I'm not saying it's fine if he consistently doesn't perform and do enough to justify having a place in the side.

I just mean the reality is that nearly all the best KPF of the last couple of decades (Hawkins, Franklin, Kennedy, Riewoldt etc.) have only averaged ~1 goal/game in their first 10 games or so (albeit they are often as 19yo rather than 21yo).

So to expect Neale to kick 2,3,4.. goals this week is setting expectations too high IMO. The problem is that the dud KPF over the last decade have also averaged ~1 goal a game. So I'm not suggesting he'll be the next Hawkins, nor am I suggesting he'll be delisted in a year. I'm saying we probably won't know that much more after this week either way, so him having a quiet game this week isn't going to be the thing that makes or breaks him in isolation.

I've been thinking more about this and I think we're being a bit quick to discount his work against North because North are bad. But North have been bad all year.

The only players to have kicked more than Neale against North this year are Hogan, Jez, H McKay, Daniher, Curnow, and 2MP.

The youngest player on that list is 27, the least experienced has 117 games to his name, and the latest selected was pick 12. Neale is 21, has played 7 games (half as ruck) and was a pick 33.

Players who kicked less include Taberner, treacy, Amiss, Cadman, Callum Brown, TDK, Chol, Gunston, Tex, Max King, Membrey, Jed Walter and Lukosious though luko was probably away from f50 that game.

Is it a significant sample enough to say he's good? No. But tomorrow won't be enough to say he's bad

Edit: Daniher autocorrected to Daniel

 

[CHAWKTS]

Surely with Parfitt not in the team Atkins goes back to his role as a defensive mid. Bowes, Tuohy, Duncan, Dempsey and Mullin all seem decent chances as sub.

Maybe…although so far they have stayed true each week (I think) to selecting the sub from the interchange.

In that case it was a choice between Bowes and Atkins (given Clark ruled out and SDK not going to be sub. I doubt Cameron is either ). So that was my logic - but maybe this week they wont keep to that “rule”

 

[Footy Smarts]

Maybe…although so far they have stayed true each week (I think) to selecting the sub from the interchange.

In that case it was a choice between Bowes and Atkins (given Clark ruled out and SDK not going to be sub. I doubt Cameron is either ). So that was my logic - but maybe this week they wont keep to that “rule”

I'd pick Bowes as sub ahead of Atkins. He was so disappointing last week. Didn't run to defend, gave away dumb free kicks and then when he had it in space used it really badly. His best is better than Parfitt but I'm surprised Parfitt was dropped before him.

 

[moond0g]

I've been thinking more about this and I think we're being a bit quick to discount his work against North because North are bad. But North have been bad all year.

The only players to have kicked more than Neale against North this year are Hogan, Jez, H McKay, Daniher, Curnow, and 2MP.

The youngest player on that list is 27, the least experienced has 117 games to his name, and the latest selected was pick 12. Neale is 21, has played 7 games (half as ruck) and was a pick 33.

Players who kicked less include Taberner, treacy, Amiss, Cadman, Callum Brown, TDK, Chol, Gunston, Tex, Max King, Membrey, Jed Walter and Lukosious though luko was probably away from f50 that game.

Is it a significant sample enough to say he's good? No. But tomorrow won't be enough to say he's bad

Edit: Daniher autocorrected to Daniel

That's kind of the point I was making.

Some on here defend him too much and say that Hawkins and Buddy had similarly slow starts to their career, therefore Neale will also become a 10 year full forward and we just need to wait. But for every Hawkins there are a dozen Charlie Gardiners or Matt McCarthys who start slow and then get delisted.

The point is ALL KPFs start slowly (the good ones and bad ones). So the odds are that Neale will be exactly the same, and maybe do a couple of nice things, but generally have a quiet game on the weekend. And this neither proves nor disproves that he's going to make it. But we shouldn't expect him to rip the game to shreds.

 

[Bunnings]

The time has come to make a mark if his ceiling is Tom Lynch. Are you delisting him if his ceiling is Mitch Lewis?

What if it’s Mitchell white?

 

[goyoucatters]

Edit: Daniher autocorrected to Daniel

Understandable. Only their mothers can tell them apart, I believe...

 

[CatToTheFuture]

What if it’s Mitchell white?

Well his team did win a premiership in his 2nd year of footy. Just he wasn't in it.

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

There's nothing to defend about Neale. He's well exceeded the expected level of performance for the amount of opportunity he's had - 7 games. He's done enough so play him !

 

[catempire]

The time has come to make a mark if his ceiling is Tom Lynch. Are you delisting him if his ceiling is Mitch Lewis?

I never said delist, he has another year on his contract after all. But this is the time to distinguish himself.

 

[catempire]

It would be good if he stands up this year but unless we have a shock recruitment in the offseason, from round 1 next he'll be a permeant fixture in our 22 whether he makes a mark or not.

I don’t disagree. We’d rather he take up that spot as someone on an upward trajectory than someone biding time though.

 

[catempire]

I agree that he needs to start doing more to command being picked in the AFL side, and he can't just continue playing good but not great VFL games. And I'm not saying it's fine if he consistently doesn't perform and do enough to justify having a place in the side.

I just mean the reality is that nearly all the best KPF of the last couple of decades (Hawkins, Franklin, Kennedy, Riewoldt etc.) have only averaged ~1 goal/game in their first 10 games or so (albeit they are often as 19yo rather than 21yo).

So to expect Neale to kick 2,3,4.. goals this week is setting expectations too high IMO. The problem is that the dud KPF over the last decade have also averaged ~1 goal a game. So I'm not suggesting he'll be the next Hawkins, nor am I suggesting he'll be delisted in a year. I'm saying we probably won't know that much more after this week either way, so him having a quiet game this week isn't going to be the thing that makes or breaks him in isolation.

That’s fine, but I disagree. There are critical times in a young player’s career when they need to show something. This is one such time for him. I think he will lose a lot of followers if he has a stinker.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I never said delist, he has another year on his contract after all. But this is the time to distinguish himself.

Yeah I just don't think this is the game that will happen. He's going to be the 4th target in a narrow ground being fed by a mediocre midfield. He's likely being instructed to just block defenders out of other players contests, he certainly gave a few dumb frees away doing that for Henry last week.

I expect there's a case where he plays his role and still kicks zero.

 

[Finknottle]

O'Connor only played midfield as a genuine tagger trying to stop a particular player's impact. Parfitt and Atkins are both defence first players concentrating on pressure and tackling but not focusing on a specific player.

I would have thought playing as a tagger is more difficult because you would be playing on the opposition's best midfielder and you would need some genuine leg speed and endurance. It explains why O'Connor gets that job instead of say Atkins or Parfitt.

 

[catempire]

Yeah I just don't think this is the game that will happen. He's going to be the 4th target in a narrow ground being fed by a mediocre midfield. He's likely being instructed to just block defenders out of other players contests, he certainly gave a few dumb frees away doing that for Henry last week.

I expect there's a case where he plays his role and still kicks zero.

If he’s the 4th target he gets the 4th best defender. No excuses.