Preview Rd 11 Geelong V GWS Sat 25th May 2024 434 pm @ KP

[Finknottle]

The coaches seem to think he's not at the level yet to make the transition. Do you reckon they have ever watched him play? Maybe if you sent them a link to the games and the coaches votes leaderboard they'd change their minds?

Your suggestion is a good one. The Geelong VFL coach and the opposition coach would be putting in the votes each week. However, it's possible there is a communication breakdown at the club. The link to the voting is hard to find, you need to type in just the right words for Google to find it.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Are we referring to Clark's work in the forward line? Clark is good forward and I actually think he is excellent overhead from what I have seen as a junior.

When playing midfield he has s**t his pants a few times and coughed up the ball at both VFL and AFL level - not exactly classy. It will come with time and he will be a very good player for Geelong.

No in midfield he has looked super classy at times. Yes the game is still a bit quick for him but I can think of 10+ moments this year he's done something in congestion that has made me sit up and go "yeah this kid can play".

Every kid playing midfield when they're just starting will turn the ball over and get bodied off the ball.

But very few kids see and execute a few of the creative handballs he's made. Or happily step onto their left when up against the boundary and see and hit a touch pass inside 50 like he did to Neale. Or backs off the play when his teammate is going to win the ball to give him an option and just enough time to snap the goal from near the boundary. Or changes direction in congestion at half back leaving his opponents grabbing at air while completely opening up the play for us.

 

[Finknottle]

Considering the bloke who’s 1 vote behind him isn’t even on an AFL list just shows it means nothing to be AFL standard.

He’s a good footballer, people aren’t saying he isnt
He just doesn’t seem to have the AFL edge and it’s worrying with all our deficiencies in our midfield he isn’t even getting the slightest look in

If he hasn't got the "edge" then he can forget about playing for Essendon. I wonder how many in Geelong's current 22 have that "AFL edge". As I've said before, I doubt that the core of our midfield players would get a game at another AFL club.

 

[feelinfeline]

I think Clark's kicking will improve

I dont see Hardie as vanilla. I consider someone like humphries as classy for example. Smooth moving and the kicking action on both feet.

Are we referring to Clark's work in the forward line? Clark is good forward and I actually think he is excellent overhead from what I have seen as a junior.

When playing midfield he has s**t his pants a few times and coughed up the ball at both VFL and AFL level - not exactly classy. It will come with time and he will be a very good player for Geelong.

Agree on Humphries.

I haven’t used the word vanilla in relation to Hardie.

I probably wouldn’t have used the word classy in relation to Clark if you hadn’t used it in relation to Hardie.

He’s 19 and Hardie is 26. Ridiculous to compare them really.

 

[Mr Meow]

Agree on Humphries.

I haven’t used the word vanilla in relation to Hardie.

I probably wouldn’t have used the word classy in relation to Clark if you hadn’t used it in relation to Hardie.

He’s 19 and Hardie is 26. Ridiculous to compare them really.

To add to that, "Classy vanilla" is something you'd only find in an up-market ice creamery.

I think the MC sees more upside in Clark than Hardie, which given their age profiles, makes sense. Where Hardie perhaps could get frustrated is when the older players underperform and he still doesn't get a look.

 

[moond0g]

Considering the bloke who’s 1 vote behind him isn’t even on an AFL list just shows it means nothing to be AFL standard.

He’s a good footballer, people aren’t saying he isnt
He just doesn’t seem to have the AFL edge and it’s worrying with all our deficiencies in our midfield he isn’t even getting the slightest look in

I've never seen him play, so I have no opinion on whether he is/isn't good enough to make it as an AFL midfielder, so I'm not disputing your judgement that he's not good enough. But I would make 2 points.
1. We will never know that he isn't good enough until we actually try him there and have it confirmed.
2. If what he is doing currently isn't enough to get picked, despite clearly being in decent form, why did we bother getting him as a mature ager at all, and why keep him on the list for this year?

Re. point 1. people here have often made the comparison to Constable and others similar - too good for VFL but not good enough for AFL. But they are completely different cases IMO, because Constable performed well in the VFL and was given an opportunity, but then couldn't become a regular AFL player due to ability, luck, whatever else. But Hardie hasn't even been given that chance.

 

[PzBlinky]

I think Clark's kicking will improve

I dont see Hardie as vanilla. I consider someone like humphries as classy for example. Smooth moving and the kicking action on both feet.

Are we referring to Clark's work in the forward line? Clark is good forward and I actually think he is excellent overhead from what I have seen as a junior.

When playing midfield he has s**t his pants a few times and coughed up the ball at both VFL and AFL level - not exactly classy. It will come with time and he will be a very good player for Geelong.

100% this.

Humphries oozes class, even if his body isn't ready for senior level. And not just his skills, but his awareness and reading of the game already feels AFL-level (though that's just my opinion).

Clark is the future and I've seen enough to be confident he'll make it (and be a good-great player for us) and he does do some nice things - his tackle pressure is great and he attacks the ball hard. But right now, he makes mistakes, probably doesn't get enough of the ball, and may even be getting games for potential/development reasons.

In fact, if his performances have been close to our other mids (and I think on a few occasions they have) then that's pretty damning for the likes of Atkins, Parfitt, and co. Again, no knock on Clark - he's a second player. As for our other mids...

 

[Footy Smarts]

I've never seen him play, so I have no opinion on whether he is/isn't good enough to make it as an AFL midfielder, so I'm not disputing your judgement that he's not good enough. But I would make 2 points.
1. We will never know that he isn't good enough until we actually try him there and have it confirmed.
2. If what he is doing currently isn't enough to get picked, despite clearly being in decent form, why did we bother getting him as a mature ager at all, and why keep him on the list for this year?

Re. point 1. people here have often made the comparison to Constable and others similar - too good for VFL but not good enough for AFL. But they are completely different cases IMO, because Constable performed well in the VFL and was given an opportunity, but then couldn't become a regular AFL player due to ability, luck, whatever else. But Hardie hasn't even been given that chance.

If only there was a way for our coaches to see him playing with and against AFL players multiple times per week for an hour or two at a time to see how he stacks up.

 

[moond0g]

This is an inflection point for Shannon Neale’s career. All logic pointed toward and omission with his disappointing showing and Hawkins and Cameron returning. The MC is investing a vote of confidence in him. Big “take the opportunity with both hands” moment here for him.

It's great that he's getting a chance, but maybe we have to temper expectations a little. As a 7 game KPF, it's far more likely that he'll have a stats sheet with 8 disposals and 1 goal, rather than a breakout game of sorts. And that's fine.

 

[moond0g]

If only there was a way for our coaches to see him playing with and against AFL players multiple times per week for an hour or two at a time to see how he stacks up.

Which goes to point 2. Why did we bother keeping him this year when they would have already known that?

 

[Warhorse]

Agree on Humphries.

I haven’t used the word vanilla in relation to Hardie.

I probably wouldn’t have used the word classy in relation to Clark if you hadn’t used it in relation to Hardie.

He’s 19 and Hardie is 26. Ridiculous to compare them really.

I think it's reasonable to compare the two as they are both fighting for a game in the same position.

Clark is going to be a much better player for Geelong for a long time. We still need to compare what they can bring to the table this year if we are serious in chasing another flag

 

[Warhorse]

Am I the only one here who is not a fan of the changes? The team balance doesn't seem right

 

[Lana]

Which goes to point 2. Why did we bother keeping him this year when they would have already known that?

Ideally he'd develop into something useful at AFL level but even if he doesn't, players can provide value without playing in the AFL especially while he is on a base wage. He the best player in our VFL team. Last year we were completely uncompetitive. Getting smashed each week isn't great for development, as players especially forwards can't mimic the roles they are being prepared for.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Which goes to point 2. Why did we bother keeping him this year when they would have already known that?

I'm not confident it is this reason that I will say... but at the time of keeping or culling him, I did think this was a reason we'd keep him on... even if we didn't think he was gonna make it.

Potential reason:

In 2021 we took Zane Williams in the MSD from Woodville SA and only gave him half the season before delisting.

We took a little bit of heat for uprooting him mid year and cutting him only a few months later (so be it I say).

Anyway, we did come out and say we learnt from that experience.

Then not long after saying that... we took Hardie in the 2022 MSD and he was from the same club as Williams (Woodville).

I just found myself thinking that we'd look poor if we took 2 guys from one club that were playing well for them halfway through the year... and we'd spoken about learning from the first experience with Williams... and then we just do the same thing with Hardie and cut him after only being with us for a few months.

I'm not saying this was the reason... Hardie looks a much better player than Williams and has improved his VFL output this year compared to last. But yes, we still don't seem to want to play him.

But I do think I did play some part in our thinking... Although I may be completely off the mark.

 

[Mr Meow]

Really not sure about missing C Guthrie, Parfitt and MOC who all play through the midfield, and not bringing in Hardie or another mid.

Sullivan, Mannagh and O’Connor the emergency’s

Glad Rohan isn’t playing, I know they play completely different football but Henry and Rohan cannot play in the same forward line

Parfitt stiff to be our first omission in a while, there’s a few other heads I’d be looking at first if it were me.

Parfitt and O'Connor omitted are real statements. Bowes very lucky to hold his spot given that. Feels like we know we need young players to develop quick for us to move forward hence Conway, Mullin and Clark staying in.

We bring back 2xKPF, 1xKPD and 1 half backer (that's where Duncan has played for much of the year), while we drop two mids and have another out injured.

Looks unbalanced to me and suggests there's a late change coming.

Lets hope we maintain possession of the ball as much as possible, because without it we will fail to put much pressure on to win it back. GWS are going to find it very easy to transition and score.

Mannagh should be 100 %in over tuohy but otherwise those are good changes.

Guthrie has been playing injured, no moc or parf are positive steps as is no stanley.

Surprised we are trying the extra tall up front-be interesting to see how we structure up.

Warhorse not sure if you were being rhetorical or not...but these people expressed doubts about the profile of the changes or the individuals coming out this week. So no, you're not the only one.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Which goes to point 2. Why did we bother keeping him this year when they would have already known that?

Players do improve especially when they haven't had a professional preseason. And we only would've been replacing him with a pick in the rookie draft where we took a delisted Hawthorn player so it's not like we thought there were endless options out there.

If we thought there was a 5% chance he improved and became a decent AFL player but is a good character around the club and provides leadership for our kids at VFL level that was probably enough to justify a 1 year contract.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

It's great that he's getting a chance, but maybe we have to temper expectations a little. As a 7 game KPF, it's far more likely that he'll have a stats sheet with 8 disposals and 1 goal, rather than a breakout game of sorts. And that's fine.

Agreed , how many times we look for him as a target will also have an effect on his performance.

If you look at how Jack Williams is tracking at the Eagles it's a good comparison - he only gets looked at 3-5 times as a forward and manages a few marks and a goal from 6 possessions or so. Had a breakout game a few weeks ago and got 3 from 11 possessions. Eagles are very happy with his progress as a 19/20yo. They are also relief rucking him.

Neale is a year or so older but much more athletically gifted. Both are excellent set shots and big boys.
These lads take a while - interesting where they both sit when they're 24 years old.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

To add to that, "Classy vanilla" is something you'd only find in an up-market ice creamery.

I think the MC sees more upside in Clark than Hardie, which given their age profiles, makes sense. Where Hardie perhaps could get frustrated is when the older players underperform and he still doesn't get a look.

I think Hardie may be a victim of our 7 zip start. Clearly we were getting it done then and maybe we are backing in this group to turn it around after 3 losses?
I sincerely hope we win but if we don't Hardie should get a chance soon after- perhaps V Tigers.
In the meantime I hope we see more of Mullin in the midfield - really liked his game V Port , reckon we cold have something there...............

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Am I the only one here who is not a fan of the changes? The team balance doesn't seem right

I think they are experimenting.

 

[BORIS332]

I think Hardie may be a victim of our 7 zip start. Clearly we were getting it done then and maybe we are backing in this group to turn it around after 3 losses?
I sincerely hope we win but if we don't Hardie should get a chance soon after- perhaps V Tigers.
In the meantime I hope we see more of Mullin in the midfield - really liked his game V Port , reckon we cold have something there...............

We need more damaging players in our midfield mix. MC has finally realised there’s only room for one of Parfitt/Atkins. The rest have a decent offensive/defensive balance, but most still probably lean defensive. Mullin is much the same.

 

[FootyLad0]

Surprised we are trying the extra tall up front-be interesting to see how we structure up.

I'm not a fan of trading too much speed for height especially in 2024 but Neale and Jezza can move so i'm ok with it.
Think we are trying to stretch GWS who don't have Buckley.

 

[Lana]

O.Henry is the one most effected by the three tall structure. He won't have to throw is body against a larger opponent to bring to ball to ground. I expect we'll see him get up higher to the wings more

 

[Play it Sam]

Some of the glimpses we've seen at AFL level have been dripping in class. Even last week in only a sub appearance he made the goal look simple and cut back into his left to hit Neale beautifully (who dropped a sitter). The step he put on JHF the week before followed by a 55m pass to Hawk was staggeringly good.

All very well-But he's supposed to be a mini Danger by now, don't you know?
And he'll be 20 in July, what's the world coming too?

 

[CHAWKTS]

To add to that, "Classy vanilla" is something you'd only find in an up-market ice creamery.

I think the MC sees more upside in Clark than Hardie, which given their age profiles, makes sense. Where Hardie perhaps could get frustrated is when the older players underperform and he still doesn't get a look.

i have never liked vanilla….but love vanilla bean…does that make me classy??!

 

[Hinkley29]

Which goes to point 2. Why did we bother keeping him this year when they would have already known that?

Because moving a bloke interstate and then cutting him after half a season is a shite move.

It goes to culture