Autopsy Dogs 🐕 pantsed by injury depleted Cats 🐱 97-75

[MrChristo]

Yeah this year he has taken a significant number of shots from 40m+ out which obviously has affected his efficiency, I guess the question is should he be trying to set some of these up instead of going for goal.

That's what stood out to me most in the overall stats; The amount of shots Geelong had within 30m compared to us. (*)

[That, and the fact we significantly 'won' contested marks. How often does that happen? (**)]

I know statistically Naughton is substantially more accurate from inside 30m, so that seems to be plan A...
...esp Saturday with Lobb starting on a wing (***).
That does naturally push JUH into that higher, longer leading forward. And therefore longer shots.

So the questions I have are similar; Should he be trying to set more up? Can we come up with some set plays? Should we go a bit old skool defensive ball and get to a pocket to at least aim for a stoppage more?

And, is some of the 'confusion' and forward congestion happening when Jamarra finds himself deeper in Astro's space? Is he in 2 minds whether to go?

(*) Looks like it'll be a super quiet rainy afternoon at work so I'll look back through the stats so far to see if it's a distinct pattern.

(**) Rhetorical. I'll check that too!

(***) Again, reading between the lines that was to effectively keep Stewart's mind occupied with a big marking target from 50m to the middle...and if it worked, then why are we still getting so many shots from 40+??

 

[VitalDread]

Something that i have noticed over the last few eeks

Is that English has issues when rucking against players with short jumps at the bounce
Ceglar would just park himself on the line and block out English body to stop him from getting a clear advantage.

Pittonet did this as well

 

[CarnTheScray]

Something that i have noticed over the last few eeks

Is that English has issues when rucking against players with short jumps at the bounce
Ceglar would just park himself on the line and block out English body to stop him from getting a clear advantage.

Pittonet did this as well

He has an issue with hitting it to our mids advantage at all.

 

[MrChristo]

Moral 1: we should be trying to maximise these sorts of opportunities but getting Marra to think more about his usage. Moral 2: Cut the Lobb on the wing crap.


As I said, I think that tactic had the desired results.
Is it possible to switch it up? Or doesn't JUH have the aerobic capacity to cover that much ground?
Because I agree, using Lobb as the lead up guy from 40-60m makes more sense from a scoring pov.

 

[VitalDread]

He has an issue with hitting it to our mids advantage at all.

Doesn't help that our mids don't know how to front oppo players as well

 

[CarnTheScray]

Doesn't help that our mids don't know how to front oppo players as well

Like I said earlier, too many issues with this side. If our coaching lineup is the same next year, and we have done nothing in the off-season except trying to grab a fringe player for a third round pick, I will probably downgrade my membership.

 

[Unorth]

it’s really obvious now that we have been carried to ugly wins against bad teams with individual brilliance from a small handful. Take away any one of L.Jones, Tim, Bont or Libba and we stink. Tactically we are just way behind the 8 ball in almost every area.

Struggling against the hawks and blues, beating Adelaide’s C team, coughing up a huge run to Richmond and almost choking v GWS - even the wins are kind of concerning when you look at them and who they have been against. Brisbane was good but looking like a fluke.

 

[NBates]

it’s really obvious now that we have been carried to ugly wins against bad teams with individual brilliance from a small handful. Take away any one of L.Jones, Tim, Bont or Libba and we stink. Tactically we are just way behind the 8 ball in almost every area.

Struggling against the hawks and blues, beating Adelaide’s C team, coughing up a huge run to Richmond and almost choking v GWS - even the wins are kind of concerning when you look at them and who they have been against. Brisbane was good but looking like a fluke.

We're losing 50% of those 4 in the next few years. That's why it's necessary to do something now. How many chances do we give the club to fix this?

 

[Doggy]

it’s really obvious now that we have been carried to ugly wins against bad teams with individual brilliance from a small handful. Take away any one of L.Jones, Tim, Bont or Libba and we stink. Tactically we are just way behind the 8 ball in almost every area.

Struggling against the hawks and blues, beating Adelaide’s C team, coughing up a huge run to Richmond and almost choking v GWS - even the wins are kind of concerning when you look at them and who they have been against. Brisbane was good but looking like a fluke.

I hate that fluke bullshit.

If anything, should have won by more.

Are you one of those who also thinks we "fluked" the 2016 premiership?

Port have won many of their 9 in a row by a couple of goals or less ... but they're hailed. Wonder how many they "fluked"

 

[Next Waiting]

Bevo played down Stewart's influence in the post match presser .... but gave him 5 coaches votes.

Never change Bevo

 

[Some Idiot]

The whole 'less is more' goalkicking approach seems to be an accepted sports science approach by many accross the league not just Bevo.

I struggle to believe in the validity of such an approach personally, but it isn't just a Bevo-ism.

 

[Next Waiting]

The whole 'less is more' goalkicking approach seems to be an accepted sports science approach by many accross the league not just Bevo.

I struggle to believe in the validity of such an approach personally, but it isn't just a Bevo-ism.

How do professional soccer players train? Is there an accepted training regime for a striker?

Would a striker spend more time practicing to strike/shoot or getting into a striking position and working on combinations with fwds and midfielders.

How much time would they actually spend on the technique(s) of kicking?

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Anyone notice how Geelong managed to get 1 on 1 mismatches at the top of the goal square? If only we had their forward coach?

 

[Next Waiting]

Dog forgive me but I've watched a bit that couch snoozefest tonight.

One thing that did pique my interest, however, was the I50 retention rate of players kicking inside 50.

Myers (Cats) leads all comers with a 45% retention rate. They contrasted this with Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

... 2% . He's possibly not the lone ranger

Oliver Gigacz do you have access to the retention rates for our players kicking I50?

I notice in your regular stats you this

Disposal Retention

WB: 74%
GE: 71%

which I presume is a combination of kicks and handballs in all parts of the ground.

Interested in the absolute money ball of kicks I50 retention rate by player if you have it. Thanks

 

[Next Waiting]

A glutton for punishment but watching 360 also. Happily though, Slobbo is sick and has been replaced by Jordan Lewis

Jordan Lewis

Age

38

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

310.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

5star

whose contributions I generally enjoy and rate.

I'm paraphrasing his analysis of our game against the cats but it basically boiled down to this. Cats mentally strong players. Dogs mentally weak players. Maybe it's just that simple.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Now that I've had time to think about it, I'm left with a couple of impressions.

1. We're extraordinarily predictable, especially in the forward line. Cats players were in position to deal with our I50 entries almost before they happened. They picked us off very easily, particularly in the second half.

2. We have so many useless possessions (although it's good to have lots of Dogs players in SC and/or DT). Geelong play direct football. I wish we did, too.

 

[doggies ftw]

Now that I've had time to think about it, I'm left with a couple of impressions.

1. We're extraordinarily predictable, esoecially in the forward line. Cats players were in position to deal with our I50 entries almost before they happened. They picked us off very easily, especially in the second half.

2. We have so many useless possessions (although it's good to have lots of Dogs players in SC and/or DT). Geelong play direct football. I wish we did, too.

Geelong don’t even usually play overly direct though, everyone plays direct football against us because we make it extremely easy for them too.

We did at least try to start playing some more direct football in recent weeks, then we lost JJ and for some reason thought the best way to replace his run & long kicking was to play 4 lumbering key defenders in the same backline, I dunno who thinks of this shit some times

 

[Next Waiting]

Nature versus nurture. If we have mentally weak players, comparative to contending teams, can you nurture them to a point of being mentally hard players or if they're (collectively) not mentally hard by nature, are you just p1ssing into the wind as a coach?

 

[grassman75]

He’s not wrong

And Cody jumps into all of them

 

[grassman75]

All of the younger guys who played pivotal roles in 2016 were already super competitive players. It would've made little difference who their coach was in that regard. It goes back to my point earlier in this thread in that you cannot teach aspects of the game like this to players. It's baked into them by the time they arrive at the club. They either are or aren't competitive by nature. In my view, McCartney just happened to be the guy in charge when the stars aligned and that group started to form around what was already a solid core or hardened players. His greatest contribution to the rise of the club was that he was so bad at the gig he was the harbinger for desperately needed change and a high risk list management gambit at club as risk averse as ours has traditionally been. For that if nothing else. I give him sole credit.

The adoption of a handball focused game and a coach with a much wider approach to the job had a much bigger impact on our rise than the myth of cracking in ever had.

Cooney was a no brainer. He was cooked by the time of his departure. I don't think it's a stretch to say that both Higgins and Griffen would've played in our flag side if we were playing a game of alternative timelines. One thing is certain, no matter what alternative timeline we can conjure. Brendan McCartney and his stiflingly dull approach to the game was never going to be the coach who got us there.

Right or wrong. Im done raking over 10 year old coals colder than my mother in laws touch.

Carry on.

Griffin and Higgins might have played in our flag side in an alternate universe....in that alternate universe I don't think we get the flag. The finger pointer wouldn't have kicked a goal....****!

 

[grassman75]

Daniel was a defender the entire game. Our back 7 was Jones, Gardner, O’Brien, Richards, Duryea, Dale & Daniel. Scott was moved back after Richards went down. The structure in defence was fine (because O’Donnell was forward) but the personnel leaves a lot to be desired.

I don’t like Caleb as a defender but we actually have no choice now with JJ & Ed down. Without those two, we have one effective distributor in Dale and the rest are solid at best. We’re going to have to bring in another hybrid defender now with the injury to Richards.

Linguini Hamstrings VDM come on down

 

[BeMoreBont]

Bevo played down Stewart's influence in the post match presser .... but gave him 5 coaches votes.

Never change Bevo

Also had a chuckle at this.. Basically I won't admit I may have got it wrong by putting a bloke who's been playing footy for 12 minutes (1.5 minutes in the forward half) on the best reader of the play in the competition.

No doubt JOD gets the role on Aliir this week. Combination of that match-up and our inability to kick to a forwards advanatge, lock him in for the 10 coaches votes.

 

[TiAn_]

Bevo played down Stewart's influence in the post match presser .... but gave him 5 coaches votes.

Never change Bevo

Votes probably done by an assistant tbh

 

[yebach]

So many possibilities there, NW.

I reckon it starts with a chaotic forward line (see the earlier comments from Brad Johnson, Lloyd and whoever else about the dysfunction down there) but it is compounded by poor, indiscriminate, shallow or bombed entries (or sometimes a combination of several of those ).

A really instructive video would be a compilation of some of Geelong's goals alongside some of our botched attempts. Even if it is deliberate cherry-picking it could demonstrate how it should be done and how not to do it. Some illustrations/impressions from last night:

• When the ball was bombed to a crowded WB forward line we didn't take any pack marks. It was either an intercept by Geelong or a contested ground ball. Geelong dealt with the Naughton /Weightman high marking threat really well. The only time that a bomb like that resulted in a goal to us was when it spilled out and a hail-mary 15.5m kick out of a scrimmage was marked impressively by O'Donnell in front of his opponent 10m out. Moral: we're wasting our time with bombs, even if Naughton is down there. We have to be more creative. The occasional Naughton screamer should be the icing, not the cake.
• Jamarra and Lobb often take their i50 marks (or marks just outside 50) on the lead. Jamarra especially has really sticky hands and at times is reminiscent of a fast leading Simon Beasley. As I posted earlier he needs to be more composed or constructive with his kicks if he is at his range limit. Lobb however has a really good range and is relatively accurate even from an angle on 50. Moral 1: we should be trying to maximise these sorts of opportunities but getting Marra to think more about his usage. Moral 2: Cut the Lobb on the wing crap.
• Somebody said our small forwards gave us nothing but I thought Weightman did quite a bit of good work, including off the ball. He also had two GAs. I'd agree in Arty's case unfortunately. He's probably due for a spell back in VFL.
• To give credit where it's due we did have one very impressive entry (2nd qtr I think), where we went coast to coast via Duryea on the wing and Weightman marked about 35m out and goaled. Maybe also that first goal to Naughton was from quick movement into an uncrowded forward line. Those transitions were all too rare though. Moral: the fast ball movement by hand and foot can pay off but it depends on our HBFs and midfielders not panicking or kicking blindly to a turnover. If the opposition pressure on the ball carrier is too great and/or the options ahead are covered we need to release sideways, slow it down, retain possession, chip it around on the HFF and wait for the eventual leadup or player in space. Not every foray forward can be scintillating slingshot footy.
• Geelong seemed to score a few easy goals out the back. There was even one to lumbering Hawkins. We didn't score any, as far as I can recall. Instead we had the usual 3-4 forwards or defenders flying for the ball, often with nobody front and centre and nobody out the back. Meanwhile Geelong had one in the aerial contest and 3-4 waiting for the scraps. The moral of that should be obvious.
• Geelong scored - what was it? - maybe 10 of their 15 goals from turnovers. They simply zoned off well, applied pressure on the ball carrier and receivers and waited for us to make the errors. It won the game for them. Moral: STOP TURNING THE F**KING THING OVER!

EDIT 1: Now that I think about it Naughton did take a CM (maybe 4th qtr), but not sure if it was in a pack. Just scraped in for a point, RH side of goals.
EDIT 2: We did manage to score some quick goals from out of the midfield, one was from Bailey Smith I think. Moral: How about we have our forwards spread more often to the pockets/flanks drawing defenders away from the centre, rather than cluster about 30m out? This would clear space for midfielders to run further inside 50, or at least for our best CM forward (Naughton) to have fewer than three spoiling opponents. Just a thought, Mr Spangher. Something has to change.

We've been playing this way long before Spangher was cherry picked.
Our press is too aggressive and we've been trained to handball when we should kick which against the better coached teams invites pressure on the handball receiver, which results in a long bomb to no one or a turnover.

 

[_Mike_]

The Dogs kicked 10.15 from 51 inside 50s on Saturday night

There's the reason for the loss right there, inefficient entries and missed shots