Review Dogs 87 def Hawks 64

[BEaston]

Stupid tactics like giving your opponent 5m every single mark is unforgivable.

Not disagreeing with you, but why do you think it has worked for Collingwood but not us?

 

[Zgope1]

I agree. There does seem to be a sense of entitlement creeping in with some of our supporters and how the team should perform.

And dare I say it, overrating of our list? Bad backline, not a lot of running power and ball use. The drafting outside of the first picks and Jamarra and Darcy not been great since Dal left.

I know that sounds like it’s partially on Bevo but I show hope the club addresses it this off season

 

[BEaston]

And dare I say it, overrating of our list? Bad backline, not a lot of running power and ball use. The drafting outside of the first picks and Jamarra and Darcy not been great since Dal left.

I know that sounds like it’s partially on Bevo but I show hope the club addresses it this off season

Definitely.

 

[maddog37]

Not disagreeing with you, but why do you think it has worked for Collingwood but not us?

The guy on the mark for the pies actually goes back and takes the man closest to him and totally disregards the mark thereby becoming part of the zone.

Our players just cover ground in no mans land.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

The guy on the mark for the pies actually goes back and takes the man closest to him and totally disregards the mark thereby becoming part of the zone.

Our players just cover ground in no mans land.

We back off 5m then stand like statues (or maybe move a step or two either way). And i know its loud but even when the up calls play on, we don't charge at the ball carrier

 

[my plums]

The guy on the mark for the pies actually goes back and takes the man closest to him and totally disregards the mark thereby becoming part of the zone.

Our players just cover ground in no mans land.

Doesn't look like they do it every single time like us either.

 

[Libba39]

I reckon it's a reasonable courtesy to give him a chance while we hang onto our slender chance of a flag. I'd say he has (up to) four games to redeem himself in the eyes of his critics.

If after playing Freo just two weeks ago we go in with an unchanged game plan and they use identical tactics to beat us, the jungle drums will be loud and persistent. And rightly so.

If on the other hand he takes us to another GF (or maybe even just a PF) then I'd say the heat is off, at least for a while. Whatever transpires I still want to see some changes during the off season, both in coaching personnel and tactical approach.

Let's see what he's got. He's done extremely well from this sort of situation before.

If we let them kick it around with no pressure like last time I'll dead set spew up. Surely we couldn't...

 

[Next Waiting]

I agree. There does seem to be a sense of entitlement creeping in with some of our supporters and how the team should perform.

Expectation is the mother of disappointment. It's fair to want to play finals every year and want to win as many as possible. But there are 18 other teams wanting the same.

You cannot truly appreciate the mountain top without first experiencing the valleys.

Meet with triumph and disaster and treat both equally.

Here endeth the cliches.

 

[dogwatch]

When our club was an absolute mess in 2014 if you told me Bevo would’ve done what he’s managed to do id give him an A+++. How quick we’ve become greedy based on the success he’s brought.

It is intriguing. I often ask whether our club and fans deserve him as opposed to him deserving his job.

You’d say only Hardwick has objectively been a better coach than Bevo in the last 8 years? Even Goodwin now who’s running a better ship seemingly has crazy assistant support and excellent talent.

One more year I say, even if this year is a D+ right now

Like everyone else here I'll be eternally grateful to Bevo for the magical run to a flag in 2016. Barring a McCartney like player revolt, I'm OK with another year for Bevo - he's contracted anyway. Let's see how we go in the finals and in 2023 before thinking any further than that. He might even have had enough himself by the middle of 2023. However like nearly everyone here (it seems) I do think we should review our footy operations this off-season and change some aspects of them.

I'm a bit mystified that you question whether we deserve him though (especially after yesterday's discussion about "deserving" - I mean we got him so of course we deserve him! )

Are you saying we shouldn't criticise? Or is it just certain criticisms that are unfair or inappropriate? How should we criticise?

When we had a strong list coming off a grand final appearance and expectations six months ago of at least a top six finish, isn't 12 wins and scraping into 8th by 0.6% performing below expectations? Were those expectations unrealistic? Shouldn't we be analysing why we seem to have underperformed and questioning to what extent the players and coaches are responsible for that? And how we can improve? With this list have we underperformed in the H&A season over 8 years by never making the top 4? I think these are legitimate questions to be aired, even if many of the answers eventually come down in Bevo's favour.

I want our coaching and our side to be the best they possibly can. We have a few generational talents that we should be making the most of. If that's greedy or a sense of entitlement then I'm guilty of it.

I'd rather be that than yet again accept mediocrity when we should be aiming for a dynasty. That's the Dogs of old. Not what we want for the Dogs of the 21st century.

 

[doggies ftw]

The guy on the mark for the pies actually goes back and takes the man closest to him and totally disregards the mark thereby becoming part of the zone.

Our players just cover ground in no mans land.

Collingwood also have elite athletic intercept defenders - we do not. Plus they don’t push their defence up ridiculously aggressively high then sit off the mark and allow it in over the back like we do.

Their defensive line holds position, they set up well 30-40m from ball carrier, let them have the mark but entice them into the long option which they have the players to pick off.


We have terrible, slow, poor aerial defenders who we push up super high in front position of their opponents, then give them space on the mark and allow them to get it in over the back.

I don’t like it at all but you can make an argument for it when you have a good intercepting defence like Pies - and they’re not usually overly aggressive with it like us, for instance they don’t do it in the corridor or past half way really. Just on the wings in the back half to entice them to go down the line.

We do it everywhere, including 60m out from goal

 

[Zgope1]

Like everyone else here I'll be eternally grateful to Bevo for the magical run to a flag in 2016. Barring a McCartney like player revolt, I'm OK with another year for Bevo - he's contracted anyway. Let's see how we go in the finals and in 2023 before thinking any further than that. He might even have had enough himself by the middle of 2023. However like nearly everyone here (it seems) I do think we should review our footy operations this off-season and change some aspects of them.

I'm a bit mystified that you question whether we deserve him though (especially after yesterday's discussion about "deserving" - I mean we got him so of course we deserve him! )

Are you saying we shouldn't criticise? Or is it just certain criticisms that are unfair or inappropriate? How should we criticise?

When we had a strong list coming off a grand final appearance and expectations six months ago of at least a top six finish, isn't 12 wins and scraping into 8th by 0.6% performing below expectations? Were those expectations unrealistic? Shouldn't we be analysing why we seem to have underperformed and questioning to what extent the players and coaches are responsible for that? And how we can improve? With this list have we underperformed in the H&A season over 8 years by never making the top 4? I think these are legitimate questions to be aired, even if many of the answers eventually come down in Bevo's favour.

I want our coaching and our side to be the best they possibly can. We have a few generational talents that we should be making the most of. If that's greedy or a sense of entitlement then I'm guilty of it.

I'd rather be that than yet again accept mediocrity when we should be aiming for a dynasty. That's the Dogs of old. Not what we want for the Dogs of the 21st century.

Talk of “accepting mediocrity” is so dense. Richmond board challenge 2016 level cringe.

Sounds like we agree on Bevo and I’ve just weighed in with my view because my man Doggies FTW had him more in the gun than I do.

Ive repeatedly said we need a look in the mirror because we don’t appear to be as professionally run as other clubs and this year has really shown that. I just personally don’t think Bevo is the problem, although he’s probably not perfect.

And on the word deserve, I’d say equating results in sports to professional relationships is intellectually disingenuous. There is a period of time before every coach loses their job where they don’t deserve the job but still have it. Same with clubs losing players. Essendon didn’t deserve to keep Ryder before he had left. These two things are not the same. The past is deserved, the future is not. We are discussing Bevo’s future.

Im not admonishing the club from criticism I’m just weighing in with my view of Bevo’s performance and involvement. Responding to chatter is not the same as saying that chatter is not allowed

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I would just like them to go to different parts of the ground post game after a win like they do in melb

Yeah I wonder if they were concerned it'd look bad on camera to do a big celebration for only maybe making it to finals.

Covid/hubs might have been the problem previous few games here.

 

[BrisDog]

Not disagreeing with you, but why do you think it has worked for Collingwood but not us?

I have to be honest, I didn’t notice Collingwood were playing the same tactics. I’m probably a bit more relaxed watching them and don’t pick up on such things.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Is anyone else worried that Essendon will come a Bevo like a freight train. They have boxes themselves into experienced coaches only - so that shrinks the field.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

After watching the game again, my take is that a win is a win. However, two points:

1. We all accept it's been an ordinary season for us, but we're playing finals. To many football followers, Carlton's had a good year, but they've missed out.
These days we expect to be around the mark, we expect to play, and go deep, in finals. It's a winning mentality and for us it's long overdue.
After decades of accepting whatever tripe was dished up, we are now hungry for success. This is a fantastic change in the mindset and attitude of Dogs people, and its overall effect will be to move us closer to the "bigger" clubs in many ways. Long, long may it continue!!

2. Roarke Smith

37

Roarke Smith

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.7

3star

K

5.6

2star

HB

6.1

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.4

2star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

is as good a role player as there is in the game. He is seriously underrated on this board. Watch the game again, objectively ( if you can). Oliver Gigacz, I'd love to know how many 1%ers he had. Is that possible?

 

[bobs head soup]

Is anyone else worried that Essendon will come a Bevo like a freight train. They have boxes themselves into experienced coaches only - so that shrinks the field.

Jake Stringer hates this idea.

 

[Chicago1]

OK. I can reveal it now. I had a stealth Lucky Meal yesterday - a Caesar pizza - chicken, bacon and cheese covered in Caesar dressing and cos lettuce(both added after cooknig). But what really won it for us was the anchovies I added as an extra. You're welcome.

 

[Fossie 32]

 

[CDBulldog]

OK. I can reveal it now. I had a stealth Lucky Meal yesterday - a Caesar pizza - chicken, bacon and cheese covered in Caesar dressing and cos lettuce(both added after cooknig). But what really won it for us was the anchovies I added as an extra. You're welcome.

Chicago, whatever you’re eating for your next lucky meal, buy a 500g tin of anchovies and dump it on top. We will need all the power of that lucky meal!!

 

[Testekill]

Just gotta say that the scoreline did flatter the Hawks in the end, we were in control of the game in the second half and there were a bunch of times especially in the fourth where the wind tugged the ball into the post or to the side.

 

[Here we go dogs]

Aside from our last 5 mins of the 1st quarter and our defending in the 2nd, we were good yesterday.

Hawthorn are a much better side in Tasmania.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I think we have to ease off a little bit though, yes we've underperformed according to expectations. Obviously we have had a worse season than what we and even neutrals would have thought before the season began.

That doesn't necessarily mean Bevo is a bad coach (maybe he's coached worse than expectations, but the expectaitons of him heading into this season was that he was one of the best coaches in the league. Not reaching that level for this season doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad coach by extension).

Part of our lack of success this year is that we haven't gone all in, we've gone for medium and long term sustainability. We've limited our draft picks by long-term key position players. We've signed our most important players to long-term contracts.

North Melbourne have proven that once small clubs stay at the bottom it can be purgatory. Not going all in on a flag for this year, maintaining a balanced salary cap, will help us avoid a situation where we're bottom 4 at any stage in the next 5-10 years. That counts for something as a club that has spent large parts of its history fighting for its right to exist.

 

[D Mitchell]

I...

Part of our lack of success this year is that we haven't gone all in, we've gone for medium and long term sustainability. We've limited our draft picks by long-term key position players. We've signed our most important players to long-term contracts.

N....

Perhaps the ring-a-rosy selections of Vandermeer, the several Mcs, Garcia, West, Khamis etc is with longer term sustainability in mind. I don't know whether your analysis is correct or not but it's a refreshing change from the blame Beveridge mantra.

 

[immortalmike]

And dare I say it, overrating of our list? Bad backline, not a lot of running power and ball use. The drafting outside of the first picks and Jamarra and Darcy not been great since Dal left.

I know that sounds like it’s partially on Bevo but I show hope the club addresses it this off season

You mean Beveridge's list?
We lost Dal because of him. It's fair to say he deserves to live and die by that list and the decisions he makes with it.

And the notion of getting greedy is as BS as the old "accepting mediocrity".

Is it greedy to expect the same issues most noticed in 2018 (and some earlier) to have been addressed by now?

Is it greedy to expect any of weaknesses to be addressed in that time?

That's genuinely all most are wanting and we are still watching teams open us up in the middle, key forwards dining out on us, inability to score for large periods of time, teams taking record intercept marks against us and us getting opened up out the back of contests.

This is all on Beveridge as is not one top 4 finish in his time.

He's a very good coach and I'm grateful for him but he is in desperate need of new ideas around him.

 

[Hoges64]

2. Roarke Smith

37

Roarke Smith

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.7

3star

K

5.6

2star

HB

6.1

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.4

2star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

is as good a role player as there is in the game. He is seriously underrated on this board. Watch the game again, objectively ( if you can). Oliver Gigacz, I'd love to know how many 1%ers he had. Is that possible?

AFL Tables says 2, but that seems rather low...