Doing Weights

[Top Dog]

I have a chocolate one too but it tastes ordinary when mixed with water.. I don't drink it for the taste though.

You should mix it with a High GI carbohydrate source ala Glucodin or dextrose which can be purchased from any supermarket or supplement store.

Post training you want to consume a high GI CHO source with your protein to spike insulin, which kick starts protein synthesis.

 

[Schism]

Mate, i'm a personal trainer, and without being a cocky jerk, a mighty fine one

If you want any advice just PM me and I will help you out.

Firstly the figures I train my clients to are these

Max Strength/Power: 1-6 reps RM, 5-7 mins rest between sets
Strength: 6-10 reps RM, 2-3 mins rest
Hypertophy: 8-15 reps RM, 45-90 secs rest
Muscle endurance/tone: 15+ reps, under 30 secs rest

If you're looking to gain size, look at hypertrophy figures. RM mean rep maximum, so if your target is 12 reps, you have to be buggered by the 12th rep.

Train your muscle groups 3 times per week as you're a beginner. Train your large muscle groups with 4-6 sets per workout, and your small muscle groups for 2-3 sets per workout.

Always do your multi-joint exercises first, and then your isolation exercises.

PM me if you want some good advice whether it be about meals, weights, anything

3 points i'd like to take you up on in your post.

A)7 minutes between sets? I don't care if your client is lifting a mack truck, that is far too long between sets. What the hell does someone do while waiting 7 minutes between sets? Even a low volume strength/size routine, say 9 sets total for back day, thats an hour of standing around doing nothing.

B)On a bulking phase or size routine or whatever you want to call it, the optimum reps is 6-8. I don't know where you get 12 from, let alone 15 reps on a size routine. If you can do 15 reps on any excercise, there isn't enough weight on the bar.

C)The last point i highlighted is the most confusing to me, especially coming from a personal trainer. You've got it completely backwards, a weight training beginner should be doing each body part once per week, and sticking to mostly compounds for months, even a year or two. As you should know, rest and diet are just as important as lifting the weight. How can a beginners muscles rest if they are training them 3 times a week? Even a 2 day a week push/pull routine would be preferable to training any bodypart 3 times a week. In fact the only people i know of who would train as much as you recommend would be olympic class weightlifters,but their training is obviously very highly specialized. Beginners and almost everyone else for that matter should avoid that sort of overtraining like the plague.

 

[viccles]

3 points i'd like to take you up on in your post.

A)7 minutes between sets? I don't care if your client is lifting a mack truck, that is far too long between sets. What the hell does someone do while waiting 7 minutes between sets? Even a low volume strength/size routine, say 9 sets total for back day, thats an hour of standing around doing nothing.

B)On a bulking phase or size routine or whatever you want to call it, the optimum reps is 6-8. I don't know where you get 12 from, let alone 15 reps on a size routine. If you can do 15 reps on any excercise, there isn't enough weight on the bar.

C)The last point i highlighted is the most confusing to me, especially coming from a personal trainer. You've got it completely backwards, a weight training beginner should be doing each body part once per week, and sticking to mostly compounds for months, even a year or two. As you should know, rest and diet are just as important as lifting the weight. How can a beginners muscles rest if they are training them 3 times a week? Even a 2 day a week push/pull routine would be preferable to training any bodypart 3 times a week. In fact the only people i know of who would train as much as you recommend would be olympic class weightlifters,but their training is obviously very highly specialized. Beginners and almost everyone else for that matter should avoid that sort of overtraining like the plague.

I agree with those points you made also

 

[TheBigUnit]

3 points i'd like to take you up on in your post.

A)7 minutes between sets? I don't care if your client is lifting a mack truck, that is far too long between sets. What the hell does someone do while waiting 7 minutes between sets? Even a low volume strength/size routine, say 9 sets total for back day, thats an hour of standing around doing nothing.

B)On a bulking phase or size routine or whatever you want to call it, the optimum reps is 6-8. I don't know where you get 12 from, let alone 15 reps on a size routine. If you can do 15 reps on any excercise, there isn't enough weight on the bar.

C)The last point i highlighted is the most confusing to me, especially coming from a personal trainer. You've got it completely backwards, a weight training beginner should be doing each body part once per week, and sticking to mostly compounds for months, even a year or two. As you should know, rest and diet are just as important as lifting the weight. How can a beginners muscles rest if they are training them 3 times a week? Even a 2 day a week push/pull routine would be preferable to training any bodypart 3 times a week. In fact the only people i know of who would train as much as you recommend would be olympic class weightlifters,but their training is obviously very highly specialized. Beginners and almost everyone else for that matter should avoid that sort of overtraining like the plague.

A) A lot of powerlifters rest between 5-10 mins b/w sets. It's an individual thing, but they're just going for pure strength, so as long as they can stay 'warm' the more rest the better. It's certainly not time efficient and it surprises me he uses it on clients - where time efficiency is even more crucial.

B) While I agree for the most part that you should work weights that you can do less than 8 reps with (as an athlete you should always be doing so IMO), some muscles groups (slow twitch dominant i.e. calves) tend to respond better to higher rep ranges plus it can be used for the "shock" factor - both points only relevant for bodybuilders.

C) Beginners are very unlikely to overtrain (due to neurological inefficiency), overtraining is much more likely with advanced lifters with highly efficient CNS, moving massive weights. Inadequate CNS recovery is more often than not the reason for overtraining (which is why it's recommended to leave at least 48 hrs between heavy weights sessions), not muscle recovery.

I disagree that beginners should train muscle groups once a week. The goal of the beginner is to develop good motor patterns to prepare the body for heavier lifting in the future (where the big strength/mass gains can be made) and the fastest way to achieve this is by using high reps (~10), relatively light weights and training frequently (3x/week, full body).

Even for me, while I've only been weight training for 2 1/2 years and an intermediate, I use a 3 day/week (MWF) full body low volume routine and have never suffered from overtraining - it's the most efficient way to train for the 'average gym goer to train.

 

[Schism]

A) A lot of powerlifters rest between 5-10 mins b/w sets. It's an individual thing, but they're just going for pure strength, so as long as they can stay 'warm' the more rest the better. It's certainly not time efficient and it surprises me he uses it on clients - where time efficiency is even more crucial.

B) While I agree for the most part that you should work weights that you can do less than 8 reps with (as an athlete you should always be doing so IMO), some muscles groups (slow twitch dominant i.e. calves) tend to respond better to higher rep ranges plus it can be used for the "shock" factor - both points only relevant for bodybuilders.

C) Beginners are very unlikely to overtrain (due to neurological inefficiency), overtraining is much more likely with advanced lifters with highly efficient CNS, moving massive weights. Inadequate CNS recovery is more often than not the reason for overtraining (which is why it's recommended to leave at least 48 hrs between heavy weights sessions), not muscle recovery.

I disagree that beginners should train muscle groups once a week. The goal of the beginner is to develop good motor patterns to prepare the body for heavier lifting in the future (where the big strength/mass gains can be made) and the fastest way to achieve this is by using high reps (~10), relatively light weights and training frequently (3x/week, full body).

Even for me, while I've only been weight training for 2 1/2 years and an intermediate, I use a 3 day/week (MWF) full body low volume routine and have never suffered from overtraining - it's the most efficient way to train for the 'average gym goer to train.

A)I do deads, bench, and before knee surgery i did squats, and i'd lose the plot trying to wait 5-10 minutes between sets. I have known some giant powerbuilders and none of them ever trained with such long rests. But if you mean competition powerlifters, then maybe you're right, i don't know any. I've trained with non-competing powerlifters however and none of them rested more than a couple mins between sets, except occasionally on squats. But this thread is aimed at the beginner to intermediate weight trainer,not veteran powerlifters.

B)Yes calves and forearms can respond better to higher reps, but it's not written in stone. Genetics pretty much dominate what calves and forearms you end up with no matter how hard you train. At my biggest i had 21+ inch calves and hardly ever trained them. Maybe once a month on a whim. My training partner had small calves and trained them all the time. He hated it. It's just luck with calves. Other than that, i don't believe high reps work at all in regards size/strength,for upper body anyway.

C)Well we agree to disagree.

All these points can be argued though. Maybe i'm right, maybe i'm wrong. I'm no PT. I'm speaking from personal experience of training off and on for years, both alone and with partners.

You should post your routine, i'd be interested to see it. I've never liked full body routines, but i'm always on the lookout for interesting new workouts.

 

[TheBigUnit]

A) Yeah, I was referring to competition powerlifters (I know the Westside Barbell Group in the US advocate it), and I agree it isn't something I've seen a lot or would do myself.

Fair enough with your points, it sounds like whatever you're doing is working/has worked for you. I'm not a PT either (although I'm thinking of getting a certification while I'm studying), I just read a ****load of books/articles on training by well regarded coaches and go by own experience as well, like you.

My routine changes depending on whether it's offseason/inseason for footy. ATM it looks like:

M
- Deadlift variation (e.g. regular, sumo, Snatch Grip, deficit etc.) 3 x <5
- Rowing Variation (e.g. pendlay, cable, bent over, corner rows etc.) - 3 x 4-8
- Core Stability (e.g. landmine twists, weighted planks, rollouts) - 2 x 5-10/30-45s

W
- Single Leg Movment (e.g. bulgarian split sq, step ups, reverse lunges etc.) - 3 x 5-8
- Weighted Push-up variation (e.g. close grip, decline) - 3 x 5-10
- Hip Extension Movement (e.g. Romanian/stiff legged Deads, pull throughs, single leg romanian deads) - 2 x 5-8

F
- Squat variation (e.g. front, back, zercher, low box etc. - mainly use front squat variations - less technically demanding) - 3 x <5
- Press variation (e.g. military, incline bench, close grip etc.) - 3 x 4-8
- Pull-up/Chin-up variation (e.g. close grip, wide grip, underhand, overhand) - 3 x 4-8

Try to bump up weight or reps every session. Normally switch lifts up every 2-3 weeks. Don't have access to dumbbells at home ATM which is a bit of a bitch.

 

[Schism]

A) Yeah, I was referring to competition powerlifters (I know the Westside Barbell Group in the US advocate it), and I agree it isn't something I've seen a lot or would do myself.

Fair enough with your points, it sounds like whatever you're doing is working/has worked for you. I'm not a PT either (although I'm thinking of getting a certification while I'm studying), I just read a ****load of books/articles on training by well regarded coaches and go by own experience as well, like you.

My routine changes depending on whether it's offseason/inseason for footy. ATM it looks like:

M
- Deadlift variation (e.g. regular, sumo, Snatch Grip, deficit etc.) 3 x <5
- Rowing Variation (e.g. pendlay, cable, bent over, corner rows etc.) - 3 x 4-8
- Core Stability (e.g. landmine twists, weighted planks, rollouts) - 2 x 5-10/30-45s

W
- Single Leg Movment (e.g. bulgarian split sq, step ups, reverse lunges etc.) - 3 x 5-8
- Weighted Push-up variation (e.g. close grip, decline) - 3 x 5-10
- Hip Extension Movement (e.g. Romanian/stiff legged Deads, pull throughs, single leg romanian deads) - 2 x 5-8

F
- Squat variation (e.g. front, back, zercher, low box etc. - mainly use front squat variations - less technically demanding) - 3 x <5
- Press variation (e.g. military, incline bench, close grip etc.) - 3 x 4-8
- Pull-up/Chin-up variation (e.g. close grip, wide grip, underhand, overhand) - 3 x 4-8

Try to bump up weight or reps every session. Normally switch lifts up every 2-3 weeks. Don't have access to dumbbells at home ATM which is a bit of a bitch.

Interesting workout, never seen that before. Seems to be a hybrid split more than a full body one. Obviously you are right into your core strength and going for a strong athletic physique rather than pure size. Your routine looks like a good one for mixed martial artists.

I think another area where we differ is the science of lifting. You mentioned CNS recovery and motor patterns. I've never bothered with using that kind of knowledge in my training, although i do know plenty about it. I'm more of a 'feel' lifter. Or i train on instinct. Probably because of lucky genetics i never had to worry too much about the science and nutrition side of it. But people who find it harder to gain size and strength definitely need to be informed on all aspects of training so they can maximize their potential.

BU,have you read any of IA's articles on the forum at www.ironaddicts.com ? That guy really knows his stuff.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Stuck to it every day
my arms a VERY wirey, i mean blue vein defined to the max
I might start doing heavier weights,

 

[Schism]

Stuck to it every day
my arms a VERY wirey, i mean blue vein defined to the max
I might start doing heavier weights,

Eat heaps, do deadlifts,barbell rows and squats!

Big arms need a big frame and big shoulders to hang from. You wont see 18+ inch arms on someone whos 70 or 80kg, ever.

 

[HighReeve]

yep so i'm going to the beach in nsws' over summer and I'm sick of being the skinny dude from Victoria.

So I've started doing pushups when I can be bothered. And apart from that just buy some dumbells?

cha.

 

[C-Dog]

remember to overload

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

yep so i'm going to the beach in nsws' over summer and I'm sick of being the skinny dude from Victoria.

So I've started doing pushups when I can be bothered. And apart from that just buy some dumbells?

cha.

Don't kid yourself, getting a physique you can parade on the beach takes a lot more than just pushups and a few dumbbell exercises.

 

[Norfolk & Clew]

Off the subject of weight lifting but for those of you looking to lose weight I have been taking Dymaburn tablets predominantly once a day before breakfast (protein shake) and in the 6 weeks i have been taking them i have lost 7 kg's. I am 191cm and have gone from 90kg's to 83kg's. I feel physically the fittest i have in more than three years (am only 22) and have only been for a few runs and a few kicks of the footy, this stuff works wonders!

 

[bbco49]

Off the subject of weight lifting but for those of you looking to lose weight I have been taking Dymaburn tablets predominantly once a day before breakfast (protein shake) and in the 6 weeks i have been taking them i have lost 7 kg's. I am 191cm and have gone from 90kg's to 83kg's. I feel physically the fittest i have in more than three years (am only 22) and have only been for a few runs and a few kicks of the footy, this stuff works wonders!

Great stuff N&C! I'm looking to lose weight also and have looked into tablets such as Hydroxycut but might give these a go. Is one a day the recommended usage? Are they very expensive?

 

[didaka]

How about getting out on the foot path and getting your heart rate above 70%.

Do the tablets make you piss alot?

 

[didaka]

3 points i'd like to take you up on in your post.

A)7 minutes between sets? I don't care if your client is lifting a mack truck, that is far too long between sets. What the hell does someone do while waiting 7 minutes between sets? Even a low volume strength/size routine, say 9 sets total for back day, thats an hour of standing around doing nothing.

B)On a bulking phase or size routine or whatever you want to call it, the optimum reps is 6-8. I don't know where you get 12 from, let alone 15 reps on a size routine. If you can do 15 reps on any excercise, there isn't enough weight on the bar.

C)The last point i highlighted is the most confusing to me, especially coming from a personal trainer. You've got it completely backwards, a weight training beginner should be doing each body part once per week, and sticking to mostly compounds for months, even a year or two. As you should know, rest and diet are just as important as lifting the weight. How can a beginners muscles rest if they are training them 3 times a week? Even a 2 day a week push/pull routine would be preferable to training any bodypart 3 times a week. In fact the only people i know of who would train as much as you recommend would be olympic class weightlifters,but their training is obviously very highly specialized. Beginners and almost everyone else for that matter should avoid that sort of overtraining like the plague.

The diploma on my studio wall and 3 years of schooling says i'm qualified to teach this and I get paid to do so. And it works as my schedule is full of happy clients and I teach and train at the safest levels that I am taught to. I would never overtrain anyone in the fashion you are talking. I work with alot of people and a get the best out of them. I also like my insurance and I don't want to lose it.

Only an advanced client should have 1 training stimulus per muscle group per week. Intermediate 2, beginner 3. Advanced gym goers know about techniques. A 15 year old kid doesn't.

It Would be quite amusing and terrifying to see a beginner lifting a load worthy of 1 training stimulus per week, i'm not sure their technique and experience is worthy of that. One thing for sure is a don't enjoy paying for other peoples medical bills.

It can take a person weeks to learn how to squat with the proper technique let alone bench 200lbs

The physio's would love me to death if I overloaded beginners that were training with me. They would make a fortune.

The last thing I will ever do is get online and tell a kid who has had little experience in the gym setting to train on the stimulus of one session per week. I havn't seen his technique and if he lifts too heavy with a bad technique then his football career may be over before it even starts. You have to be careful because the human body is not something you should play with. One bad move and you could live with it forever.

 

[didaka]

A) A lot of powerlifters rest between 5-10 mins b/w sets. It's an individual thing, but they're just going for pure strength, so as long as they can stay 'warm' the more rest the better. It's certainly not time efficient and it surprises me he uses it on clients - where time efficiency is even more crucial.

B) While I agree for the most part that you should work weights that you can do less than 8 reps with (as an athlete you should always be doing so IMO), some muscles groups (slow twitch dominant i.e. calves) tend to respond better to higher rep ranges plus it can be used for the "shock" factor - both points only relevant for bodybuilders.

C) Beginners are very unlikely to overtrain (due to neurological inefficiency), overtraining is much more likely with advanced lifters with highly efficient CNS, moving massive weights. Inadequate CNS recovery is more often than not the reason for overtraining (which is why it's recommended to leave at least 48 hrs between heavy weights sessions), not muscle recovery.

I disagree that beginners should train muscle groups once a week. The goal of the beginner is to develop good motor patterns to prepare the body for heavier lifting in the future (where the big strength/mass gains can be made) and the fastest way to achieve this is by using high reps (~10), relatively light weights and training frequently (3x/week, full body).

Even for me, while I've only been weight training for 2 1/2 years and an intermediate, I use a 3 day/week (MWF) full body low volume routine and have never suffered from overtraining - it's the most efficient way to train for the 'average gym goer to train.

It's very unlikely that you'll ever get powerlifters through the doors as a paying customer. They don't need the motivation and are happy and experienced enough with their current programs, so it is nothing that I really have to bother with. If they did I would be inclined to use super/tri sets maybe even quadsets if it works with the program.

For people who are intending on pure bulk without max power I stick to about 6 reps with about 2 1/2 mins rest. The progressively overload them I add reps before weight, and eventually drop them down in the reps again and up their weight. If you ever get a client looking for bulk they are not fussed with cardio and use the entire 60 mins on resistance training. Usually.

 

[Norfolk & Clew]

Great stuff N&C! I'm looking to lose weight also and have looked into tablets such as Hydroxycut but might give these a go. Is one a day the recommended usage? Are they very expensive?

Thanks mate, they recommend two a day, one before breakfast and one in the arvo, prior to a workout, but seeing as though i am at work until 5 i always forget to take one and i am stingy and don't want to use them up quick! They cost $50 from Pinnacle Health in Bendigo, I play footy with the bloke who owns and runs the store so when i go back there, i stock up.

How about getting out on the foot path and getting your heart rate above 70%.

Do the tablets make you piss alot?

I do get out and have a kick with a mate fairly reguarly and also go for the occasional run, but i do like to have a reasonable break after footy season. I have had my gut since i was 19, first year out of school and under 18's, I did my quad five times, completely writing my season off, so i did no training and drank a heap of beer as i was getting a regular wage. Have been trying to burn the bastard off since (3 years) over pre-season and all to no avail, i have been suffering OP which wouldn't have been halped by my gut and lack of core strength. Since taking these tablets, in conjunction with my protein shake for brekky, my body feels so much better due to having less weight to carry. I am looking forward to being able to play more gametime in the ruck this year, rather than playing 5 minutes and being spent.

Oh and no i don't piss alot, actually dehydrates you so have to keep the water flowing!

 

[didaka]

Thanks mate, they recommend two a day, one before breakfast and one in the arvo, prior to a workout, but seeing as though i am at work until 5 i always forget to take one and i am stingy and don't want to use them up quick! They cost $50 from Pinnacle Health in Bendigo, I play footy with the bloke who owns and runs the store so when i go back there, i stock up.



I do get out and have a kick with a mate fairly reguarly and also go for the occasional run, but i do like to have a reasonable break after footy season. I have had my gut since i was 19, first year out of school and under 18's, I did my quad five times, completely writing my season off, so i did no training and drank a heap of beer as i was getting a regular wage. Have been trying to burn the bastard off since (3 years) over pre-season and all to no avail, i have been suffering OP which wouldn't have been halped by my gut and lack of core strength. Since taking these tablets, in conjunction with my protein shake for brekky, my body feels so much better due to having less weight to carry. I am looking forward to being able to play more gametime in the ruck this year, rather than playing 5 minutes and being spent.

Oh and no i don't piss alot, actually dehydrates you so have to keep the water flowing!

It sounds like your core may be an underlying problem. Have you thought of signing up for some Pilates. It sounds gay and blokes stay away from it, but it is very effective.

 

[Norfolk & Clew]

It sounds like your core may be an underlying problem. Have you thought of signing up for some Pilates. It sounds gay and blokes stay away from it, but it is very effective.

it does sound gay you homo!!! haha

Yeah i have tried it mate, it helped a bit but i hate going to classes and things like that on a regular basis and forking out coin! I am not committed enough, it is the underlying problem though!

 

[.Shotties.]

Great stuff N&C! I'm looking to lose weight also and have looked into tablets such as Hydroxycut but might give these a go. Is one a day the recommended usage? Are they very expensive?

I use hydroxycut hardcore for cutting or making weight, found it very useful. It rips through fat when combined with HIIT.

 

[Schism]

Didaka it doesn't matter if you are a 15 year old kid or a 30 year old advanced weight lifter. If someone wants to get big, there is the right way, and that is all. A novice comes up to you and wants a back program, it should be deadlifts, barbell rows and lat pulldown/wide grip chins. It's that simple. Of course i wouldn't suggest anyone overtrain or overload. Once per week per bodypart is plenty for anybody as long as it is the right routine. Newbies shouldn't even bother with isolations or arm workouts anyway, which are the only times that one could even consider more than once per week. Bi's get plenty of work naturally on back day, tri's and shoulders on chest day. Then you want someone to train those parts ANOTHER 2 or 3 times that week? Insane.

I don't care how many courses or diplomas someone has done, or what they think they know about the science of lifting. Some things can only be learned the hard way, by actually doing the work. If i'd listened to PT's instead of the old heads in the gym a few years ago i'd still be doing dumbell curls and tricep kickbacks 3 times a week and look like a stick insect.

 

[didaka]

Didaka it doesn't matter if you are a 15 year old kid or a 30 year old advanced weight lifter. If someone wants to get big, there is the right way, and that is all. A novice comes up to you and wants a back program, it should be deadlifts, barbell rows and lat pulldown/wide grip chins. It's that simple. Of course i wouldn't suggest anyone overtrain or overload. Once per week per bodypart is plenty for anybody as long as it is the right routine. Newbies shouldn't even bother with isolations or arm workouts anyway, which are the only times that one could even consider more than once per week. Bi's get plenty of work naturally on back day, tri's and shoulders on chest day. Then you want someone to train those parts ANOTHER 2 or 3 times that week? Insane.

I don't care how many courses or diplomas someone has done, or what they think they know about the science of lifting. Some things can only be learned the hard way, by actually doing the work. If i'd listened to PT's instead of the old heads in the gym a few years ago i'd still be doing dumbell curls and tricep kickbacks 3 times a week and look like a stick insect.

A 15 year old should not be overloading, bottomline. It should be 12 reps or higher. They are the guidelines. People don't just make it up as they go. Their body's just arn't made for it yet.

If someone is training for bulk and they are lifting 100% RM then yes, of course you train the muscle group 1 time per week as it needs the sufficient recovery from a heavy workout. But you do not put a 15 year old on that sort of program.

If anyone was interested in paying thousands of dollars and taking 3-4 years out of their life to go and learn from the elite professionals pick-up their certificates and diplomas attend all the fitness expo's australia holds and learn from people who study the science of fitness and become qualified to teach don't bother. PM this dude. He knows it all.

Like I said beginners should be training their muscle groups 3 times per week. At 80% of RM. An intermediate 2x per week and an advanced trainer who can reach his RM's 1 day per week per muscle group. You can't just walk into a gym and know it all.

Beginners should train between 8-15 reps for the right mix of hypertrophy and muscular endurance in order to advance. You DON'T just put a young kid on a bulk program and loading him to 4-6 reps you don't do it. Full stop.

Disc injuries are forever.

Once again fitness is my job, my roster is full and i'm paid and paid well to offer my service. I don't know what you do, and I don't care, and i'm sure you're better at your job than what I would be. But don't tell me how to do my job because I don't tell you how to do yours.

The guidlines for resistance training are:

Max Strength/Power: 1-6 reps RM, 5-7 mins rest between sets

This is for the absolute power lifter. Some of these blokes only lift 1 rep and may only lift a couple of sets per workout. The absolute extreme in the industry.

Strength: 6-10 reps RM, 2-3 mins rest

The people looking for straight out bulk. Hitting 6 at RM is for the trainer looking for the most out of the size gains.

Hypertophy: 8-15 reps RM, 45-90 secs rest

People looking for the mixture of muscle size gains and tone.

Muscle endurance/tone: 15+ reps, under 30 secs rest

People looking for tone and endurance.

They are the guidelines. Like them or not, a much more experienced man than you set them I didn;t make them up, I just put them into practise, and guess what.....they work and work well.

And as far as it goes, we''ll just have to agree to disagree on this because I can't be bothered going on and on about it and I have no interest in making enemies on bigfooty. I have made my point and i'm moving on.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Different things work for different people didaka, your guidelines might be convenient because you don't know how a client responds to different techniques/routines, but that doesn't mean they're set in stone.

For me personally, the first book I read was Arnies encyclopedia of bodybuilding, so I followed his routine. Did a 3 day split over 5 days a week, and had great results. I then read a bunch of articles criticising that book saying its overtraining so i switched to a 2 day split, and i reckon i was static for the 4 months i wasted on it.

I've gone back to my 3 day split routine & am again seeing results.

Its all about understanding your body, and only way you can do that is by experience. Personal trainers can put you on the right path, motivate you, ridicule you when you're being lazy. But they will never know you like you know yourself.

 

[didaka]

Different things work for different people didaka, your guidelines might be convenient because you don't know how a client responds to different techniques/routines, but that doesn't mean they're set in stone.

For me personally, the first book I read was Arnies encyclopedia of bodybuilding, so I followed his routine. Did a 3 day split over 5 days a week, and had great results. I then read a bunch of articles criticising that book saying its overtraining so i switched to a 2 day split, and i reckon i was static for the 4 months i wasted on it.

I've gone back to my 3 day split routine & am again seeing results.

Its all about understanding your body, and only way you can do that is by experience. Personal trainers can put you on the right path, motivate you, ridicule you when you're being lazy. But they will never know you like you know yourself.

I agree with everything you say. Everybody responds to different types of training. Thats why I have a massive arsenal of training systems and what not and I re-jig programs very often to find what suits them and I would rather advance someone than throw them into the deep end. And the kid in this thread didn't want bulk. He wanted an increase in size and muscle tone. So why would you put him on a bulk program.

What i'm arguing is that you are able to train a muscle group 3 times a week depending on your program. And on this type of program for his specific needs he is able to do so.

Of course if you're an advanced lifter pounding out massive loads then no way should you train that muscle group more than 1 time per week. But what sort of beginner will lift a load worthy of that.

You have to train to train. You shouldn't be thrown into a massive program or else you will spend just as much time on the physio table as in the gym.

It's like training an obese client and making them run 10km on the first night.