Doing Weights

[sabre_ac]

Started hitting the gym end of 02.

Up untill the start of this year I had a 2 day split routine done twice a week.

Due to fulltime work it has dropped to a 3 day split routine (Each body part only done once but an extra exercise added).

I started at 64 kg, I currently weight 82.

I'll admit I am not totally ripped but still quite lean.

The gym is all about making a habbit out of it, people throw different theories at you. I have heard and read about them all. They key is to try them all and find what works for you, what keeps you coming back and what makes you get bigger.

Some soreness the next day is usually the best indication of a good workout the day/night before.

Staying in shape must be a life long obession, or you wasting your time.

PS Guys that bring sports bag to the weight room, wear gloves, are overly loud or wear tiny tank tops. etc...You are kidding no one.

 

[Schism]

Didaka you are wrong. Just because you (might) have certain qualifications on your wall, doesn't mean you are bullet proof. In fact you are bordering on incompetent. I can just see it now, a gym full of your beginner clients all running around doing bicep curls, upright rows, pushups and kickbacks, all wondering why they aren't building any muscle.

A beginner who wants to get big can and should start with deads,squats,bench and BB rows as the core of their routine. Even if he starts on a 30kg deadlift, it doesn't matter.

You can regurgitate all the RM's, %'s,reps and sets you like, from whichever book or trainer you like. What i have said in this thread is fact, and has been proven for well over 50 years. Those excercises on a once per week per bodypart split routine will build the most muscle mass on any body type with any metabolism over the first couple years of training. Once someone is an advanced lifter in terms of knowledge, then i guess anything goes. Whatever works, works.

With the possible exception of forearms and calves, nobody should train any specific bodypart 2 times per week, let alone 3. Especially beginners. Training for endurance or pure strength may be different, i don't know because i've never tried.

 

[Schism]

Started hitting the gym end of 02.

Up untill the start of this year I had a 2 day split routine done twice a week.

Due to fulltime work it has dropped to a 3 day split routine (Each body part only done once but an extra exercise added).

I started at 64 kg, I currently weight 82.

I'll admit I am not totally ripped but still quite lean.

The gym is all about making a habbit out of it, people throw different theories at you. I have heard and read about them all. They key is to try them all and find what works for you, what keeps you coming back and what makes you get bigger.

Some soreness the next day is usually the best indication of a good workout the day/night before.

Staying in shape must be a life long obession, or you wasting your time.

PS Guys that bring sports bag to the weight room, wear gloves, are overly loud or wear tiny tank tops. etc...You are kidding no one.

Sorry bro that is an urban myth. DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) doesn't mean anything. You can SMASH a bodypart and not even feel it the next day. I hardly ever get DOMS in my triceps or back, but they are my best parts. My chest,hammies and biceps scream with DOMS for days after i train them but are lagging behind in size. Same goes for many lifters. But it is a common mistake. I used to worry as well because my tri's never got sore, but they grew like crazy, so i looked into DOMS a bit on the net. It has no significance at all with regards to whether or not the muscle has been hit hard enough.

 

[sabre_ac]

Sorry bro that is an urban myth. DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) doesn't mean anything. You can SMASH a bodypart and not even feel it the next day. I hardly ever get DOMS in my triceps or back, but they are my best parts. My chest,hammies and biceps scream with DOMS for days after i train them but are lagging behind in size. Same goes for many lifters. But it is a common mistake. I used to worry as well because my tri's never got sore, but they grew like crazy, so i looked into DOMS a bit on the net. It has no significance at all with regards to whether or not the muscle has been hit hard enough.

I agree to some extent..The pain decreases the longer you train..But if you flex the muscle you can still feel some strain the next day (Well I can)

 

[Schism]

I agree to some extent..The pain decreases the longer you train..But if you flex the muscle you can still feel some strain the next day (Well I can)

Yeah as with everything in weight training, it is all down to the individual. Stretching plays a part with DOMS too, i'm sure.

 

[smooking39]

my right shoulder clicks when i do lateral raises. It has started since ive been doing weights. What does this mean?

 

[Smell The Glove]

PS Guys that bring sports bag to the weight room, wear gloves, are overly loud or wear tiny tank tops. etc...You are kidding no one.

Gotta disagree with this one. While it may be true in some cases, I find they are essential to my workout, as I have sweaty hands like you wouldnt believe. Especially when doing any sort of bench press- the last thing I need is a slippery grip.

 

[Schism]

my right shoulder clicks when i do lateral raises. It has started since ive been doing weights. What does this mean?

Both my shoulders click too, and i can't do upright rows, or anything behind the neck (presses,pulldowns). I have to warm my shoulders up and stretch them before every workout, otherwise the joints (not the muscle) just die 10 minutes in, no matter which upper bodypart i'm training. Could be rotator cuff, could be fluid in the joint, could be damaged ligaments or tendons, who knows. If it hurts when you train you should get some scans and see whats up.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Gotta disagree with this one. While it may be true in some cases, I find they are essential to my workout, as I have sweaty hands like you wouldnt believe. Especially when doing any sort of bench press- the last thing I need is a slippery grip.

I agree. I also get calluses if I don't wear gloves, so I find them essential.

 

[sabre_ac]

Gotta disagree with this one. While it may be true in some cases, I find they are essential to my workout, as I have sweaty hands like you wouldnt believe. Especially when doing any sort of bench press- the last thing I need is a slippery grip.

Gloves potentially I suppose are o.k...It all comes down to how you behave in the weight room.

I find my calluses to be badges of honour..But each to their own .

 

[Top Dog]

Both my shoulders click too, and i can't do upright rows, or anything behind the neck (presses,pulldowns). I have to warm my shoulders up and stretch them before every workout, otherwise the joints (not the muscle) just die 10 minutes in, no matter which upper bodypart i'm training. Could be rotator cuff, could be fluid in the joint, could be damaged ligaments or tendons, who knows. If it hurts when you train you should get some scans and see whats up.

If you have bad shoulders you shouldn't even consider doing upright rows, which even if done with perfect form place an unbelievable amount of stress through the shoulder joint. Too much impingement risk if you ask me, and there are much better alternatives for developing upper traps and deltoids.

 

[Top Dog]

Didaka you are wrong. Just because you (might) have certain qualifications on your wall, doesn't mean you are bullet proof. In fact you are bordering on incompetent. I can just see it now, a gym full of your beginner clients all running around doing bicep curls, upright rows, pushups and kickbacks, all wondering why they aren't building any muscle.

Agree.

The VAST majority of 'trainers' out there are bordering on dangerous. Some of the shit I've seen prescribed is scary.

A beginner who wants to get big can and should start with deads,squats,bench and BB rows as the core of their routine. Even if he starts on a 30kg deadlift, it doesn't matter.

Mostly agree.

I would probably sub out B/B rows for a unilateral version.

You can regurgitate all the RM's, %'s,reps and sets you like, from whichever book or trainer you like. What i have said in this thread is fact, and has been proven for well over 50 years. Those excercises on a once per week per bodypart split routine will build the most muscle mass on any body type with any metabolism over the first couple years of training. Once someone is an advanced lifter in terms of knowledge, then i guess anything goes. Whatever works, works.

Big statement. Do you have an research that backs this up? Or is it pure anecdotal evidence?

I've seen people get bigger following all sorts of routines, and for the most part they aren't following your typical bodybuilding 'hit each muscle group once per week' routine. I've found that most beginner / intermediate lifters respond better to hitting each muscle group with greater frequency, provided the overall volume is managed through a properly structured program. This is where properly designed full body and upper / lower splits can be utilised with great success.

Options include...

Full Body (Hitting each major muscle group 3x per week)
Upper / Lower Split (Hitting each major muscle group 2x per week)
Full Body + Body Part Split (Hitting each major muscle group 2x per week)

Just to name a few.

With the possible exception of forearms and calves, nobody should train any specific bodypart 2 times per week, let alone 3. Especially beginners. Training for endurance or pure strength may be different, i don't know because i've never tried.

You can build serious amounts of muscle utilising programs that hit muscle groups anywhere from 2x per week to 4x per week, provided the overall volume and intensity is kept in check by the coach / lifter.

The whole once per week training method came about when bodybuilders of the 70's and 80's increased there steroid useage dramatically. As such, how does the training methods of a genetically superior, drug taking bodybuilder apply to a beginner who is not using steroids?

You need to open your eyes a little more, because there is much more to strength and conditioning than your typical 'once per week bodybuilding' split that has a monopoly over the vast majority of gym rats.

 

[.Shotties.]

I find my calluses to be badges of honour..But each to their own .

I'm doing physio, so callouses are a big no no for me.

 

[nicky]

What weight routine should girls do if they are not interested in any visible muscle.?

 

[Burningleviathan]

Any suggestions for those wo have plateued? I can't seem to get myself to lift more the last 3/4 weeks. Been shitting me off.

 

[NitroFan]

my right shoulder clicks when i do lateral raises. It has started since ive been doing weights. What does this mean?

My right shoulder does the same thing. It has been doing it ever since I started doing weights, doesn't hurt at all, or bother me at any other time, so I just ignore it.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Any suggestions for those wo have plateued? I can't seem to get myself to lift more the last 3/4 weeks. Been shitting me off.

I'd suggest either:
1) Change to a completely different routine. I don't mean just a few new exercises to replace old ones, i mean a completely different routine. E.g. Change from a low volume routine to a high volume one.

2) Drop the weight back a bit (e.g. if you're pushing 80% RM, drop back down to 70%) and slowly work your way back up. Maybe you simply went forward too fast and your body isn't really up to pushing the amount of weight you want it to.

For me option 1 has worked in the past, but i've heard option 2 is the way you're meant to do it.

 

[sabre_ac]

Any suggestions for those wo have plateued? I can't seem to get myself to lift more the last 3/4 weeks. Been shitting me off.

Personally I have found the longer I have trained the longer it takes to move up to the next weight..

For example I have only moved up 2.5 kilo's in the past 2 odd months..Not sure if I am ready to move up another 2.5kg.

Mix it up, Drop set helps as well I find.

 

[mcgarnacle]

This is quite an interesting thread.

i'll say this:

Core Exercises
Clean (variations - Power, Hang, High, etc)
Back Squat
Deadlift (and i mean lift a dead weight on each rep!)
Romanian Deadlift (but not a dead weight -confusing i know)
Bench Press
Push Press
Barbell Row

these should be in every program. No ifs or buts! If your goal is to be strong, these need to be included! Most commercial gyms dont encourage Olympic or Power lifts........if you attend one of these, then its purely a show pony gym....get outta there!

Auxillary Exercises
Front Squat
Lunges (variations - std, walking, lateral, etc)
One-leg Squat
Glute-ham Raise (hardly any gyms have the equipment, so need someone to hold your ankles)
Weighted Dips
Weighted Pullups

These are great too, IMO.

3-0-1 tempo (and that 1 is one hell of an explosive push/pull); generally 4-6 reps, but i dont limit myself to this range; 2-3 minute set rests.

As I run short intervals (200-300m) and do shorter sprint reps as well, I limit my weights to 3 sessions per week. Every 5-6 weeks, i do absolutely nothing for 1 week........apart from stretching. I maintain my flexibility! Ive found that the week off does wonders for my recovery, gives me a chance to take a time-out and re-assess my training, and help motivate me for my next 5- week or so block. Its easier to stay motivated for short-term goals and encompass these into your long-term objectives.

I dont have any real theories on set and rep schemes. I was obsessed with them when I started out and it was more foe than friend........it appears people are more concerned with this than lifting the weight.

I learnt that intensity is key. Simply lifting to a pre-determined number of reps will not lead to any improvements.

 

[Schism]

Agree.

The VAST majority of 'trainers' out there are bordering on dangerous. Some of the shit I've seen prescribed is scary.



Mostly agree.

I would probably sub out B/B rows for a unilateral version.



Big statement. Do you have an research that backs this up? Or is it pure anecdotal evidence?

I've seen people get bigger following all sorts of routines, and for the most part they aren't following your typical bodybuilding 'hit each muscle group once per week' routine. I've found that most beginner / intermediate lifters respond better to hitting each muscle group with greater frequency, provided the overall volume is managed through a properly structured program. This is where properly designed full body and upper / lower splits can be utilised with great success.

Options include...

Full Body (Hitting each major muscle group 3x per week)
Upper / Lower Split (Hitting each major muscle group 2x per week)
Full Body + Body Part Split (Hitting each major muscle group 2x per week)

Just to name a few.



You can build serious amounts of muscle utilising programs that hit muscle groups anywhere from 2x per week to 4x per week, provided the overall volume and intensity is kept in check by the coach / lifter.

The whole once per week training method came about when bodybuilders of the 70's and 80's increased there steroid useage dramatically. As such, how does the training methods of a genetically superior, drug taking bodybuilder apply to a beginner who is not using steroids?

You need to open your eyes a little more, because there is much more to strength and conditioning than your typical 'once per week bodybuilding' split that has a monopoly over the vast majority of gym rats.

The once per week theory is simple. There is alot of crossover from every workout. When you do chest, the delts get hit hard. Then they get smashed on shoulder day. Why would anyone want to do them again that week? Same goes for triceps (get hit on chest and shoulder day), and biceps (back day). I could see training legs more often, and forearms. But nothing else. I base this on personal experience and on knowing many lifters over the years, both on and off the juice. I haven't done a cycle yet, and i don't agree one set of rules applies to steroid users and another for natural lifters. Rest and diet are just as important as lifting, where is the rest if you are hitting muscles 3 or 4x a week? Sounds like a great way to injure shoulders and elbows to me.

I'm not a big believer in push/pull routines or full body routines. But no doubt they have worked for a small percent of people.

Regarding metabolisms and body types,if someone can't get big from deads,squats,BB rows and bench, then they are never going to be big anyway.

On your last point, i'm not talking about strength and conditioning, i'm talking about size and muscle mass. People training for size should only be worried about size and forget about strength. The strength will come on its own. But if you train for size you will never be as strong as a dedicated strength trainer (who will more than likely be half your size, with the exception of advanced powerlifters).

 

[mcgarnacle]

The once per week theory is simple. There is alot of crossover from every workout. When you do chest, the delts get hit hard. Then they get smashed on shoulder day. Why would anyone want to do them again that week? Same goes for triceps (get hit on chest and shoulder day), and biceps (back day). I could see training legs more often, and forearms. But nothing else. I base this on personal experience and on knowing many lifters over the years, both on and off the juice. I haven't done a cycle yet, and i don't agree one set of rules applies to steroid users and another for natural lifters. Rest and diet are just as important as lifting, where is the rest if you are hitting muscles 3 or 4x a week? Sounds like a great way to injure shoulders and elbows to me.

I'm not a big believer in push/pull routines or full body routines. But no doubt they have worked for a small percent of people.

Regarding metabolisms and body types,if someone can't get big from deads,squats,BB rows and bench, then they are never going to be big anyway.

On your last point, i'm not talking about strength and conditioning, i'm talking about size and muscle mass. People training for size should only be worried about size and forget about strength. The strength will come on its own. But if you train for size you will never be as strong as a dedicated strength trainer (who will more than likely be half your size, with the exception of advanced powerlifters).

ive never understood the fascination of purely training for size......apart from looking ridiculous, its serves no function. but each to their own i say.

 

[Smell The Glove]

ive never understood the fascination of purely training for size......apart from looking ridiculous, its serves no function. but each to their own i say.

I agree, which is why it baffles me to see so few guys in the gym training forearms. Nothing beats a strong grip, plus they aid in working biceps and back.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

I agree, which is why it baffles me to see so few guys in the gym training forearms. Nothing beats a strong grip, plus they aid in working biceps and back.

Your forearms should get a sufficient workout when doing heavy weights.
I really don't see the point of doing forearm exercises.

Seems people love silly isolation type exercises. Same goes for shrugs, which are a waste of time unless you're after a pump.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Your forearms should get a sufficient workout when doing heavy weights.
I really don't see the point of doing forearm exercises.

Seems people love silly isolation type exercises. Same goes for shrugs, which are a waste of time unless you're after a pump.

I disagree. If you are training properly you are going to get to a point where just going heavy isnt enough. I found after I had been training for a while that I had 15 inch arms and tiny 10 inch forearms and it was a major reason why I wasnt putting on any extra muscle on my back in particular. Hell, I couldnt arm wrestle an infant they were so embarassingly small and weak.

That said, as I was replying to a post talking about functional strength over muscle size, I think that forearms are very important. Much of your arm strength comes from the wrists and forearms, and so I make a point of training them once or twice a week. As for them being a "silly, isolation type exercise" I dont see anything that can improve other areas of your body/workout as being silly at all.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

I disagree. If you are training properly you are going to get to a point where just going heavy isnt enough. I found after I had been training for a while that I had 15 inch arms and tiny 10 inch forearms and it was a major reason why I wasnt putting on any extra muscle on my back in particular. Hell, I couldnt arm wrestle an infant they were so embarassingly small and weak.

That said, as I was replying to a post talking about functional strength over muscle size, I think that forearms are very important. Much of your arm strength comes from the wrists and forearms, and so I make a point of training them once or twice a week. As for them being a "silly, isolation type exercise" I dont see anything that can improve other areas of your body/workout as being silly at all.

Fair enough. Genetics play a role in that I guess. I've never had an issue with my forearms lagging and from what I've read no book recommends you do forearm exercises.So I found it a bit weird you put such an emphasis on it in your post.

Each to their own. There's this dude in my gym who I've never seen do a full strict rep, its always half reps & cheats, and the guy is twice the size of me. So who am I to criticise?
His tricep pushdowns are such a small movement you could almost be mistaken in thinking he's having a seizure