Don't be misled: AOD9604 is definitely a performance-enhancing drug

[Ferdinand Lewis]

If it all well and good why is Tim Watson saying no doubt there will be sanctions

 

[Tiger2709]

I know so... you demonstrate a severe lack of knowledge of how the compound works which is kinda funny that you came here to big note your self about facts... i agree the substance is grey area PE but your attempt at a cheap shot to sound all informed is flat out wrong... its the crux of the argument as to why everyone is so confused... you have made a complete fool out of your self trying to sound all smart and stuff...

Surely if it is not fully tested for humans over a long period no one knows for sure how the compound works or what the results may be, why else was shifty Spike McVeigh shitting bricks about what the vitamins he assured us he took may do to him and his family?

 

[Tiger2709]

Lol... you start a fact thread, make an idiot of your self then commit the ultimate surrender by resorting to the oldest back track the internet has... grammar correction... the reason the EFC has any argument is because of people like you who have no clue what they are cutting and pasting...

This is cutting edge science and i freely admit is a PE...you could argue whey, bcaa or even intermittent fasting does the same thing, just not as refined hence the argument and confusion is that the substance is grey because the peptide stimulates natural GH which not even wada or asada know how to pidgeon hole it....its mostly unclassified...this is why we will be just fine... are you starting to see the glaring holes in your facts yet?

They should just drop the case now then, seeing as the resident expert on the matter has confirmed that although there has been admissions to using a banned drug everything will be fine

I think the boos last night will be nothing as to what will be heard if everything is just fine for the Bombers after this.

 

[Tiger2709]

So AOD improves aerobic capacity now? Is there anything this wonder drug doesn't do? I wonder what Port Adelaide (10 of 12 last quarters won) are on; maybe Gus can help us out for old times' sake.

Does it matter what it may or may not do, it is banned, as in all likelihood if this charge is proven will be the unfortunate players that were possibly tricked by the club into taking it, the lawsuits against Essendon from banned players for loss of income etc could wipe them out whether or not they are stripped of points fined banned or whatever, will the parents of young players want their boys drafted by a club that is willing to risk "whatever it takes".

 

[mxett]

No absolute guarantee in the answer he gave you, it's hardly definitive and the over arching question is still remains unanswered.

Why the hell was Essendon using this stuff?

Its shown potential for joint repair, ie cartilage, in pre clinical testing. Not proven clinically though.

 

[mxett]

Does it matter what it may or may not do, it is banned, as in all likelihood if this charge is proven will be the unfortunate players that were possibly tricked by the club into taking it, the lawsuits against Essendon from banned players for loss of income etc could wipe them out whether or not they are stripped of points fined banned or whatever, will the parents of young players want their boys drafted by a club that is willing to risk "whatever it takes".

It actually does matter

 

[the harry]

Its shown potential for joint repair, ie cartilage, in pre clinical testing. Not proven clinically though.

Isn't that performance enhancing?
Genuine question.

 

[mxett]

Isn't that performance enhancing?
Genuine question.

Everything enhances performance to some degree, even vitamin injections.

I suppose the question with banned PEDs is do they let you perform above your natural ability or potential? Steroids which make you faster and stronger obviously do. A medication that potentially assists cartilage repair to previous levels probably not.

 

[mxett]

Surely if it is not fully tested for humans over a long period no one knows for sure how the compound works or what the results may be, why else was shifty Spike McVeigh shitting bricks about what the vitamins he assured us he took may do to him and his family?

Why would spike be panicking? He has said he wasn't given AOD and he's no longer a player?

As Prof Willert said, AOD was specifically designed NOT to promote muscle growth and so far all tests have confirmed it.

 

[DonsRule]

Isn't that performance enhancing?
Genuine question.

I think that is a different answer to anyone you ask, I suppose it could be, but it could also just be something designed to repair to the body to normal status, if that makees sense, I know this will be a little out of context, but you have the flu, or a cold, you take medicine that helps the body thwart off the attack.

In some sense it is, it's an artificial advantage , but not designed necessarily to push to a new level of strength. It's messy, I can see how both sides are argued.

 

[mxett]

Depends how you define 'performance enhancing'.

AOD doesn't seem to improve the performance of an individual player. If it helps with recovery it may get them back on the field faster. I guess this can improve the performance of the team, but it seems a long bow to draw that AOD is a PED.

Surgery does the same. So do ice baths. Physiotherapy. Lignocaine injections.

 

[the harry]

Everything enhances performance to some degree, even vitamin injections.

I suppose the question with banned PEDs is do they let you perform above your natural ability or potential? Steroids which make you faster and stronger obviously do. A medication that potentially assists cartilage repair to previous levels probably not.

Depends how you define 'performance enhancing'.

AOD doesn't seem to improve the performance of an individual player. If it helps with recovery it may get them back on the field faster. I guess this can improve the performance of the team, but it seems a long bow to draw that AOD is a PED.

Thanks. Just assumed it was because the idea of playing without cartilage didn't sound entirely appealing.

 

[mxett]

Thanks. Just assumed it was because the idea of playing without cartilage didn't sound entirely appealing.

lol, ask Budda Hocking or maybe Dermie. I think theyd agree

If AOD did help repair cartilage and not promote muscle growth it would be a massive breakthrough and youd think sports would be one of its major applications, along with OA.

 

[DudleyB]

Australia (as usual) is having the debate Europe and Nth America had 20 years ago.

You Bombers fans and all the parasites and vultures trying to earn a buck from this (PR lackys and Lawyers) attempts to find loopholes in the wada code and find ways to cover up cheating is so embarrassing.

Do you Bombers numpties think all these arguments haven't been run umpteen times in Europe and Nth America?

Read my lips:

No ifs no buts - if you take a banned substance you are done (unless it was injected in you while you were unconscious).

 

[mxett]

Australia (as usual) is having the debate Europe and Nth America had 20 years ago.

You Bombers fans and all the parasites and vultures trying to earn a buck from this (PR lackys and Lawyers) attempts to find loopholes in the wada code and find ways to cover up cheating is so embarrassing.

Do you Bombers numpties think all these arguments haven't been run umpteen times in Europe and Nth America?

Read my lips:

No ifs no buts - if you take a banned substance you are done (unless it was injected in you while you were unconscious).

No exceptions?

 

[broden]

Everything enhances performance to some degree, even vitamin injections.

I suppose the question with banned PEDs is do they let you perform above your natural ability or potential? Steroids which make you faster and stronger obviously do. A medication that potentially assists cartilage repair to previous levels probably not.

And the long term health implications are?

 

[mxett]

And the long term health implications are?

AOD has undergone over a decade of clinical trials

 

[broden]

AOD has undergone over a decade of clinical trials

Between what years? How many clinical trials? How many human clinical trials? How many people were involved in those trials? How were the trials conducted? In what form was AOD trialled? Cream, tablet or injection?

 

[mxett]

Between what years? How many clinical trials? How many human clinical trials? How many people were involved in those trials? How were the trials conducted? In what form was AOD trialled? Cream, tablet or injection?

I suggest you use google

 

[broden]

AOD has GRAS (generally recognized as safe) status in the US, so lets not get carried away with the safety angle.

Sure has. In what form though?

 

[broden]

I suggest you use google

Did that ages ago. You posted the link actually. Interesting how you were selective on your quotes from it though.

Thought you may like to expand on it. But then you'd hate to put something in a post that doesn't support your argument. What ever it takes.

 

[Daytripper]

Sure has. In what form though?

Its self evident its safe. They play on your TV set every week. Are any of them falling over and dying?

 

[mxett]

Did that ages ago. You posted the link actually. Interesting how you were selective on your quotes from it though.

Thought you may like to expand on it. But then you'd hate to put something in a post that doesn't support your argument. What ever it takes.

The studies are searchable on line. AOD has never shown any detrimental affects after human clinical trials. It even has GRAS status.

 

[broden]

Conditional GRAS to be exact, but well tested on humans it seems:

Metabolic Pharmaceuticals Pty Ltd (Metabolic)

Metabolic is seeking to derive value from the Company’s past investment of over $50 million in the pharmaceutical development of AOD9604. The peptide has proven to be safe and well tolerated in a total of 6 human clinical trials involving 925 humans.
Potential means of deriving value from AOD9604 currently being actively pursued include seeking partners and licensing interest for the use of AOD9604 in:
(i) Over the counter (OTC) products in the United States for fat reduction under a self-affirmed GRAS status.

Metabolic has recently achieved a self-affirmed GRAS (Generally Recognised As Safe) status (conditional on a journal publication of existing safety data) which allows the marketing of AOD9604 into the US market. This means that AOD9604 can be legally added to foods, drinks, nutraceuticals & dietary supplements.

But well tested? Six trials and a total of 925 people. Geez, maybe they can get their hands on the research work that Essendon would surely have documented with their playing group. That'll add an extra 35 priceless test specimens.

Would you mind letting me know why this peptide is being developed and for which target market? Cheers.

 

[Bloodstained Bomber]

AOD has GRAS (generally recognized as safe) status in the US, so lets not get carried away with the safety angle.

But that is how many of these so called football supporters are veiling their delight at our predicament.

Hiding behind the safety of players argument online while praying beside their beds each night for us to be crushed into insignificance.

Notice the huge number of "concerned with the health of the players" Carlton supporters frequent these threads...