MRP / Trib. Douglas suspended for 2 games (With subsequent discussion on Viney bump)

[BrissyCrow]

We have some good rules and we have some bad ones. All I want is consistency. That means Viney will have to sit out a few games. It was interesting to hear Gerald on 360 say that Viney should be let off when all last year and this year has been advocating for setting a bench mark and consistency.

The day will come when players will sue each other for the injuries that they receive. Intentional or accidently? To me the main point that needs to be asked is was this injury the result of some malice intent or was it simply a accident. Having a blanket rule that states that if the head is injured then the offender is liable is stupid because in a sport that moves so fast and embraces physical contact accidents will happen.

Perhaps the long term goal would be to have the rules in the NAB KICK games applied to AFL games.

 

[JP Sauce]

A medium-fast bowler at test cricket level bowls at around 140kph, just under 40m/s. The cricket pitch is 22yards long - call it 20m. That means that the batsman at the other end has around 0.5 seconds to react. Given the success that top level batsmen have, against bowling of this pace, I'd suggest that Viney had more than enough time to react and make a decision (which he did).

They actually have closer to 0.2 seconds to react. In 0.5 seconds they have to react, make a decision and execute a shot/leave.

Viney definitely had time react and do something, which he did - bracing in a bump position.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Im sure if Viney was standing still and concentrating only on the player coming at him he would have had time to behave like a batsman and leave Lynch down the leg side.

Im not really sure I like the comparison. A batsman hasn't already committed his momentum when the ball is delivered.

 

[Vader]

There's no doubt that the comparison is flawed, but it proves the point that Viney did have time to make a decision and react - something which many of the Melbourne fans have been arguing he did not.

 

[Wood_Duck]

There's no doubt that the comparison is flawed, but it proves the point that Viney did have time to make a decision and react - something which many of the Melbourne fans have been arguing he did not.

Yep he should have vanished into thin air. Seriously do you really want to see players diving out of the way. He tried to halt him momentum and he stayed low. How can anyone actually say when Viney actually became aware of the exact nature of the pending collision?

 

[Vader]

Yep he should have vanished into thin air. Seriously do you really want to see players diving out of the way. He tried to halt him momentum and he stayed low. How can anyone actually say when Viney actually became aware of the exact nature of the pending collision?

That's what Melbourne will try to argue. I'm not even slightly convinced that he had no other options available to him.

 

[Coopers]

Bottom line - the point of Viney's shoulder hits lynch smack on the side of the face.

Lynch has a concussion and a broken jaw.

If he doesn't get games, indeed quite a few, then that is massively inconsistent.

 

[MattyB_76]

Im not really sure I like the comparison. A batsman hasn't already committed his momentum when the ball is delivered.

Viney is a young, agile midfielder. He's not the Titanic. We've seen him and most other players duck and weave between and around players when it's suits them. And the comparision with a cricket player is exactly the same, and completely relevant. It's all about the frame of reference. Changing momentum/inertia is the same whether you are standing still or moving, based on your frame of reference. (20 year old high school physics)

You don't commit momentum/intertia. You have momentum if you are standing still or moving.

Cricket ball is moving at 40m/s. Batmen standing still. From the batsman's FoR, the ball is moving at ... 40m/s.

Lynch and Georgiou moving at less than 10m/s, Viney moving at less than -10m/s. Net movement from Viney's FoR is less than 20m/s.

So it's roughly half the speed of a cricket ball based on the FoR of the person making a decision, and I'm gonna guess that he had about 10m when he 'realised' he wasn't going to get to the ball first, so roughly half the distance. Same decision, same reaction time. Completely comparable.

Either way, whether he chose to bump, or chose to brace himself, as Vader has pointed out with references to the rules, Viney chose to 'make contact' with Lynch when he had other options. No matter how much it would make him look like a squib, he had other options and chose to make contact.

 

[JP Sauce]

Yep he should have vanished into thin air. Seriously do you really want to see players diving out of the way. He tried to halt him momentum and he stayed low. How can anyone actually say when Viney actually became aware of the exact nature of the pending collision?

No one wants to see this, but until the AFL changes the head contact/injury rules, interpretations and punishments then this is probably a better option than bumping and risking weeks on the sidelines. I guess the rules are there to make Viney tackle the player coming towards him but doing this opens Viney up to injuring himself and isn't really a natural human reaction.

This is one of the many reasons the AFL is broken.

 

[ltdamn]

At the point he lowers his shoulder and braces for contact with Lynch he becomes culpable for the damage which follows.

That's one of the very few things the MRP has been consistently clear on. If he does get off, there's no point anyone trying to figure out the rules anymore because that is the one AND only tenet that everything else is based on.

 

[ltdamn]

No...... just no. Whatever you may wish to believe the AFL have no bias in this area

No direct bias, but a far smaller fear of penalizing our players inconsistently than they do with Victorian teams, because they know there will be no backlash, from us or the SA media.

 

[Crow-eater]

Tribunal hearing happening atm. AFL's case is that it was negligent. Viney is pleading not guilty saying it was out of his control. Georgiou is going to give evidence.

 

[PrideOf]

Tribunal hearing happening atm. AFL's case is that it was negligent. Viney is pleading not guilty saying it was out of his control. Georgiou is going to give evidence.

That's really important - what Viney's teammate reckons.

 

[Bicks]

Tribunal hearing happening atm. AFL's case is that it was negligent. Viney is pleading not guilty saying it was out of his control. Georgiou is going to give evidence.

Live on Twitter now...

https://twitter.com/AFLTribunal

 

[Viney4PM]

Viney had the option to tackle, he chose to bump and as a result broke someone's jaw and left us a man down all day.

He's toast.

By the time lynch had possession of the ball, Viney had .54 seconds to make a decision, hence why he choose to 'bump' to protect himself. (as you would in a split second decision)

 

[PKnox]

Tribunal hearing happening atm. AFL's case is that it was negligent. Viney is pleading not guilty saying it was out of his control. Georgiou is going to give evidence.

Good to see Roos was not allowed to give evidence. Apparently he was going to say how he has specifically taught Viney to brace for impact.

What a farce.

 

[PKnox]

By the time lynch had possession of the ball, Viney had .54 seconds to make a decision, hence why he choose to 'bump' to protect himself. (as you would in a split second decision)

Yep, that's about how long everyone gets to choose between bump and tackle.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I imagine Georgiou is saying how he propelled Lynch forward and down in the tackle... causing the high contact with Viney

 

[Jars458]

That's what Melbourne will try to argue. I'm not even slightly convinced that he had no other options available to him.

I am convinced he had very little option at full speed and I said the same when I watched it live. Could go either way though.

 

[Viney4PM]

Yep, that's about how long everyone gets to choose between bump and tackle.

And so when you see two players (one behind causing momentum) coming at you at full speed, your first option is to tackle? Wouldn't think majority of AFL players will do that.

 

[spenze]

Good to see Roos was not allowed to give evidence. Apparently he was going to say how he has specifically taught Viney to brace for impact.

What a farce.

apart from the fact he would have wanted to bring in Goodesy, Kirky, Jude and Dunky to do a street theatre interpretation of what happened

 

[spenze]

And so when you see two players (one behind causing momentum) coming at you at full speed, your first option is to tackle? Wouldn't think majority of AFL players will do that.

gang tackled

I hear that expression a fair bit these days

 

[PKnox]

And so when you see two players (one behind causing momentum) coming at you at full speed, your first option is to tackle? Wouldn't think majority of AFL players will do that.

I thought Viney was tough? Are you suggesting he shirked the contest?

 

[spenze]

I guess if he is found guilty we will have to listen to another round of " the bump is dead" from ex footballers who I used to watch snipe opponents in the 80s. How long will that statement have to be said before they realise it just is

 

[Crow-eater]

Nathan Schmook:
The fracture was to Lynch's left jaw, so that was caused by Viney's shoulder.