Drug Use Rampant in AFL (especially at the Weagles)

[#1 Dogs Fan]

I thought Carlton was a Victorian club....

Just thought the same thing

 

[bunsen burner]

A couple of points

how come they haven't been caught yet more often? only one of our players has tested positive twice (and i don't believe the cr@p about masking agents - if the chinese economy can't find a way to mask drugs undetected in their swimmers - I doubt a two bit drug dealer can)

1. This is why I'm sceptical about the claim that 2 top players binge every weekend and go to recovery. They'd get picked up. Sure, only lasts in the system for 24-48 hours but law of averages says they'll get picked up.

2. I don't think he was talking masking the drugs in the system, but alowing them to feel and appear normal at recovery and training.

secondly - re: the above - I have seen a few of the boys out and one look at their pupils tells a story itself. So why haven't they tested +ve
more often?

Out of the system pretty quickly. By Monday afternoon it would be out of the blood and urine.

thirdly - we do seem to be the worst - however I don;'t think we stand alone in this issue?

Not by any means. But it does seem the Eagles have the biggest problem.

fourthly - i personally don't consider it cheating as it hardly helps our onfield performances.

Very true and that's why they shouldn't be testing for it. Not the AFL's business.

lastly - how long do you give this thread?

Not long but if it's ok for the AGE to print then I don't know why it isn't ok for us to discuss?

 

[bunsen burner]

And just for the record: I'm very certain that one C.Judd has nothing to do with any of this stuff.

 

[bushie]

A couple of points

how come they haven't been caught yet more often? only one of our players has tested positive twice (and i don't believe the cr@p about masking agents - if the chinese economy can't find a way to mask drugs undetected in their swimmers - I doubt a two bit drug dealer can)

The chinese are/were trying to mask synthetically produced performance enhancing drugs and steroids.

Check out bike racing, Tour de France etc and you will find that masking agents are rife.

Producing a masking agent for Coke, Ice, Ecstasy is a piece of piss in comparison.

Plus these drugs exit the sywstem very quickly in comparison to steroids etc.

secondly - re: the above - I have seen a few of the boys out and one look at their pupils tells a story itself. So why haven't they tested +ve
more often?

You might find that articles like this and the recent Mike Sheehan article are precursors to a more regimented testing system.

For the sake of the game I hope so!

thirdly - we do seem to be the worst - however I don;'t think we stand alone in this issue?

I am sure you are not.

But perception by the public, sponsors and the media has you tainted as the Kings of this type of behaviour.

And it appears that alot of your supporters have no problem with this.

Which is sad.

fourthly - i personally don't consider it cheating as it hardly helps our onfield performances.

The AFL considers it cheating, just as criminal courts consider it illegal.

And it should be your off field performance that you are concerned about as well!

lastly - how long do you give this thread?

That would depend on who is modding it and if it stays on topic.

 

[evo]

Holy shyte.I've seen some 'expose's in footy over the years but this one takes the cake.

Compliments to Andrew Rule

Amazing to see alot of the goss all in one article.

 

[Oh When the Saints]

Everyone seems to accept this like it is a natural thing.

I accept that the article might have been sensationalised somewhat, but a good mate has a brother on the Eagle's list, and I have heard similar stuff.

It is obviously a problem amongst all players, but seems to be accentuated at West Coast.

People need to take a step back - drug use is rampant in the AFL and no-one seems to care.

The AFL has a duty of care IMO to counsel players and ensure that this problem is minimised to the greatest possible extent.

FFS, the attitude seems to be that "oh well ... players using drugs ... *yawn* .... what's next?"


This is a real issue for the AFL and widespread drug use amongst professional sportsmen is not something to be taken lightly.


Ben Graham was interviewed on the radio recently, and he was asked if the NFL have any problems with some of their young stars who earn massive amounts of money (millions per year).

He replied that there is a zero tolerance policy - if you are drunk in a public place, then you are sacked immediately. Ditto drug use. Ditto aggressive behaviour in public.

He said that there is no problem in the NFL because of this zero tolerance policy.

Get rid of the crap soft excuses "oh well it's only natural with so much money and time and the publicity they get".

Bull sh|t.

The AFL have got to take a hard-line stance on this issue before the professionalism of the whole sport is tarnished.

 

[bunsen burner]

You might find that articles like this and the recent Mike Sheehan article are precursors to a more regimented testing system.

For the sake of the game I hope so!

Let's hope not. It is none of their business.

The clubs probably do have a reason to test though. They should test and provide education, counselling, and rehab. No reason to ban anyone for merely taking NPED. If they have a continued problem then they are letting their team mates down because they are not performing to 100% and culd be released.

And it appears that alot of your supporters have no problem with this.

And you think you would be calling for Pavlich's head if he was involved and you had just won or were about to win a GF? I don't think so.

The AFL considers it cheating,

Not to my knowledge it doesn't.

And it should be your off field performance that you are concerned about as well!

To a degree but onfield performance is so much more important. No one's going to sack a Kerr or Cousins when it might cost a flag. They haven't done anything extraordinary yet.

 

[bunsen burner]

People need to take a step back - drug use is rampant in the AFL and no-one seems to care.

Drug use is also rampant in normal society but I don't see peple running around advocating employers drug test their workers to make sure they aren't living it up on the weekends.

The AFL has a duty of care IMO to counsel players and ensure that this problem is minimised to the greatest possible extent.

Yep, and testing them and then banning them is not the answer.

FFS, the attitude seems to be that "oh well ... players using drugs ... *yawn* .... what's next?"

And that's fair enough. We are watching a game where the best team wins the flag not the team who takes the least NPE drugs.

This is a real issue for the AFL and widespread drug use amongst professional sportsmen is not something to be taken lightly.

Inhouse education and counselling. No one should be banned by the AFL for taking NPED. It's not for them to police.

Ben Graham was interviewed on the radio recently, and he was asked if the NFL have any problems with some of their young stars who earn massive amounts of money (millions per year).

He replied that there is a zero tolerance policy - if you are drunk in a public place, then you are sacked immediately. Ditto drug use. Ditto aggressive behaviour in public.

He said that there is no problem in the NFL because of this zero tolerance policy.

hahahah hahahah Americans. Rednecks. 3 strikes and you go to jail for life.

Get rid of the crap soft excuses "oh well it's only natural with so much money and time and the publicity they get".

It's not an excuse. it's a reason.

The AFL have got to take a hard-line stance on this issue before the professionalism of the whole sport is tarnished.

You shouldn't be able to sack someone for their personal preferences which have no effect (ie PE) on the game.

Just get the clubs to educated, counsel, and rehabilitate. No need for kicking out players who might do a line of coke in the of season. That's just stupid.

 

[bushie]

Let's hope not. It is none of their business.

Of course it is there business.

Articles like this, and the accusations they contain, are hardly holding the sport up in a good light.

The AFL is very nervous about where this will all end up.

The clubs probably do have a reason to test though. They should test and provide education, counselling, and rehab. No reason to ban anyone for merely taking NPED. If they have a continued problem then they are letting their team mates down because they are not performing to 100% and culd be released.

Agreed

And you think you would be calling for Pavlich's head if he was involved and you had just won or were about to win a GF? I don't think so.

If his behaviour was as consistent and blatant as Kerr's you can bet your bottom dollar that I would be calling for some heavy hitting discipline.

Not to my knowledge it doesn't.

So why do they test??

Cheating, illegal,criminal or just plain stupid.

Take your pick! But it is against the AFL's policy.

To a degree but onfield performance is so much more important. No one's going to sack a Kerr or Cousins when it might cost a flag. They haven't done anything extraordinary yet.

Come back to me about this if there is another incident, and a naming rights sponsor or two walks out the door.

 

[Oh When the Saints]

Your point about ordinary employers is understandable, but in wider society those who take drugs are not in the public eye.

AFL players are. If they want to play AFL football, they must accept that there are certain sacrifices that have to be made ... and one of those is not to take drugs.

Whether they like it or not, AFL player are role models for many of our younger generation.

People taking a complacent attitude towards drug use is socially irresponsible and starts to "normalize" the practice.

bunsen burner, do you seriously believe that drug use by AFL players is justified by the fact that they have a lot of time and money?


AFL football is not just a form of entertainment - it an inherent part of Australian culture, and as such the actions of those in the football industry have a significant social impact.

 

[RizzoTheRat]

The chinese are/were trying to mask synthetically produced performance enhancing drugs and steroids.

Check out bike racing, Tour de France etc and you will find that masking agents are rife.

Producing a masking agent for Coke, Ice, Ecstasy is a piece of piss in comparison.

Plus these drugs exit the sywstem very quickly in comparison to steroids etc.

Spot on Bushie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_test


There is a reason Warnie was banned for a year because he took a diuretic.

 

[bushie]

Drug use is also rampant in normal society but I don't see peple running around advocating employers drug test their workers to make sure they aren't living it up on the weekends.


.

That is just plain silly and incorrect.

Try getting on to a mine site after a weekend on the goey and see how you go.

Random alcohol and recreational drug testing is common in a lot of work places and is increasing.

 

[Blues_Man]

Or so is the gist of this article in today's Age. Kerr sounds a really nice guy doesn't he. Angwin's comments about Carlton's leadership group are of interest too.
QUOTE]

And the most ironic thing about this article is no mention of the Richmond player who is the only player to be suspended due to taking illegal drugs

 

[Oh When the Saints]

The economic argument that bushie alluded to is another important point.

Sponsors, especially reputable firms that are involved in the community, do not want to be associated with a sport where drug use is widespread.

They will withdraw their financial support and this has a whole raft of consequences.

 

[bunsen burner]

Of course it is there business.

Articles like this, and the accusations they contain, are hardly holding the sport up in a good light.

The AFL is very nervous about where this will all end up.

No it's not their business. Maybe a cub's business if a player is getting out of hand, but not the AFL's.

Ever considered that if they were never tested in the first place this would still be under the carpet? And thereby having no adverse effect on the AFL?

And that's how it should be. The WCE were made aware about Cousins and Gardiner and could have conducted education, counselling and rehab in house. Now that it's all in the open, this is the direction the AFL should head in: outlines to all clubs as to a NPED policy including education, counselling and rehab. No need for the AFL to ban or even name publicly anyone testing psoitive. It is not cheating. It's a social problem and a health issue.

If his behaviour was as consistent and blatant as Kerr's you can bet your bottom dollar that I would be calling for some heavy hitting discipline.

There's 3 choices:

1. Sacked
2. Suspended
3. Monetary fine which the AFLPA has set a limit of $10k.

Sacking and suspension is just stupid for NPED.

So why do they test??

Cheating, illegal,criminal or just plain stupid.

Take your pick! But it is against the AFL's policy.

It's not considered cheating though.

Come back to me about this if there is another incident, and a naming rights sponsor or two walks out the door.

For any fan or sponsor who walks there's another waiting to take place. Until there's n replacements yet this won't be a problem.

 

[Father Jack]

If a star player copped a few club suspensions and was eventually sacked by, say, the Eagles for testing positive to some nefarious substance or for repeated public inebriation, would that mean his AFL career would be over, or would he be snapped up by, say, St Kilda at the earliest opportunity? If so, then it would seem to be a silly thing for West Coast to do. Further, if the AFL banned him for life would that be to big a penalty?

I find it hard to believe they do that in the NFL, coz if they did I would not be surprised if some lowlifes associated with other teams would deliberately nerf a player in this fashion via spiking or some such nonsense.

So, in other words, how should the problem be dealt with?

 

[imright]

Which West Coast player or players has tested positive to drugs?

 

[Oh When the Saints]

Do you really expect names imright ??

 

[Father Jack]

Which West Coast player or players has tested positive to drugs?

Didn't you read the Age article about Bigfooty yesterday? We get the site into trouble with Andy everytime we mention it.

 

[bushie]

No it's not their business. Maybe a cub's business if a player is getting out of hand, but not the AFL's.

I think you will find that the AFL vehemently disagrees with you on this.

As they should!

Ever considered that if they were never tested in the first place this would still be under the carpet? And thereby having no adverse effect on the AFL?

Ever considered that there behaviour in public and the involvement of the police would, and has, made it public anyway!

And that's how it should be. The WCE were made aware about Cousins and Gardiner and could have conducted education, counselling and rehab in house. Now that it's all in the open, this is the direction the AFL should head in: outlines to all clubs as to a NPED policy including education, counselling and rehab. No need for the AFL to ban or even name publicly anyone testing psoitive. It is not cheating. It's a social problem and a health issue.

There is if they are recidivists.

There's 3 choices:

1. Sacked
2. Suspended
3. Monetary fine which the AFLPA has set a limit of $10k.

Sacking and suspension is just stupid for NPED.

The first two options seem to be far too difficult for some clubs to implement and $10,000 is pocket money when you are on $300k plus bonuses and sponsorships.

It's not considered cheating though.

Like I said before, you can label it what you want. But in the eyes of the AFL and the criminal justice systen, it is against the rules and laws already in place.

For any fan or sponsor who walks there's another waiting to take place. Until there's n replacements yet this won't be a problem.

The fans are not the issue here. Plenty of nuff nuffs born every minute.

But I can assure you that any new potential naming rights sponsor will come in the door holding all the aces. And simply will not pay anything near the previous amount for the right to sponsor a club with a badlly tarnished image.

 

[- PC -]

Drug use in the AFL is a lot more common than it appears on the outside, from all clubs. This article shouldn't surprise that many people.

Doesnt surprise me at all , when players are earning lotto wins a year then you have to spend it on something, when you cant be seen to be drinking alcohol what else gives you the dutch courage to talk to the stunner...though most AFL players have them come to them... I just find it more surprising that they dont think a bit clearer.

For all we know CJ and MR may be the biggest spoon sniffers in the league, but if they do it at home they are not seen.

 

[nobbyiscool]

as an eagles supporter, this article saddens me. and its not only because it 'picks on' the eagles- its because its hard to hear these 'rumours' about guys that you admire.

but one thing that hasn't been mentioned... there's all this talk about how rife drugs are among these rich young men. the sad reality is that drugs are rife among the general population of rich young men. its not only in footy.

we shouldn't isolate clubs and players and talk about this as a footy problem. its a community problem.

 

[imright]

Didn't you read the Age article about Bigfooty yesterday? We get the site into trouble with Andy everytime we mention it.

Yes, my mistake.

 

[- PC -]

The economic argument that bushie alluded to is another important point.

Sponsors, especially reputable firms that are involved in the community, do not want to be associated with a sport where drug use is widespread.

They will withdraw their financial support and this has a whole raft of consequences.

Its the brand.

20 years ago clubs were happy to turn over $100,000 profit. Now getting a big sponsor on board is numero uno.. hurt the brand say goodbye to the sponsor

TAC?

 

[Oh When the Saints]

we shouldn't isolate clubs and players and talk about this as a footy problem. its a community problem.

Yes, but unlike the rest of the community, AFL players are in the public arena. Their behaviour is a cause for discussion, whether you think it should be or not.

The AFL need to take a lead on this social issue IMO ... if the AFL players are seen to be "clean" then there can be no better role model for society.