Economic downturn will sink boot in to clubs

[Hinkley29]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Why should the AFL have to use its money to pay off your teams debt?

You dont seem to get it that the competition would be healthier without your club. They are merely draining money from the competition which could/should be used elsewhere.

To all North Melbourne supports "What does your club ADD to the competition"?

What does NM add to the competition? Are you serious?

Do you actually watch the games or are you merely concerned with the financial side of the game. I would argue strongly that there are very few (if any) clubs that have contributed more to the game ON FIELD in the last 20 years than NM.

And isn't that really what counts?

Footy is a business, but it is unlike any other business. It forms an integral part of people's lives, unlike almost any other commodity. The AFL, as keeper of the game, has an obligation to take into consideration the community importance of the game and it's clubs.

If all I cared about was how financially viable or important a club was, I wouldn't follow footy. I would buy myself a Rio Tinto scarf and cheer them on in their rivalry against BHP Billiton. How exciting would that be?

What does NM (or any other club) add to the competition........what a ridicuouls, naive and patently sad question. You just don't get it do you?

 

[Mental Magpie]

There are too many clubs in Victoria.

The league should consist of no more than 14 teams. This allows all clubs to play eachother twice, making it a much fairer competition.

I say cut the funding and let nature take it's course.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Yes, but some are more reliant that others...

North will always be considered a relocation candidate with their current level of support.

Even though we just fought off relocation and our membership has risen dramatically on the back of that decision to stay.

And before you start in on the 'sympathy memberships' stuff, there never were more than 3k, and we're on track to get 32k+ this season, which shows staying increased our membership by nearly 50 per cent.

And that's in the first two years. It took hawthorn 12 years and flag and flogging a third of their home games to find financial security.

I think North are doing OK.

Its Footscray and Melbourne who need to be concerned, particularly Melbourne.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Why should the AFL have to use its money to pay off your teams debt?

You dont seem to get it that the competition would be healthier without your club. They are merely draining money from the competition which could/should be used elsewhere.

To all North Melbourne supports "What does your club ADD to the competition"?

It did for yours.

And much and all as Sydney bleats about their ratings - like being beaten by The Iron Chef - North's breaking and development on the Friday night market has added FAR more to the TV rights value than a few thousands disnterested Sydneysiders ever did, or will.

 

[Rob]

Greater melbourne will grow in population by nearly 2 adelaides in 30 years.

Why not stay where the population will be

Because when you split it 10 ways, it amounts to **** all.

Projections can be dubious, but one thing you can be certain of is that Victoria will not account for 10/16ths of the national population growth. And unless that's the case, the Vic clubs will continue to fall further behind (population wise).

 

[Geelong63]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Even though we just fought off relocation and our membership has risen dramatically on the back of that decision to stay.

And before you start in on the 'sympathy memberships' stuff, there never were more than 3k, and we're on track to get 32k+ this season, which shows staying increased our membership by nearly 50 per cent.

And that's in the first two years. It took hawthorn 12 years and flag and flogging a third of their home games to find financial security.

I think North are doing OK.

Its Footscray and Melbourne who need to be concerned, particularly Melbourne.

LOL.............A North supporter trying to say that the Kanga's are safe compared to the Dee's and the Dogs


Where are the 10 "White Knights" that JB said he had organised last year?

You know.....The one's that were going to tip in a $1 million each to help save North


Look out for your own patch mate

 

[medusala]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

It took hawthorn 12 years and flag and flogging a third of their home games to find financial security.

Hawthorn like Richmond, Collingwood and Carlton ran into troubles due to mismanagement.

They are structurally profitable (and Hawthorn would still make multi million $ profits with 11 Vic home games and a mid table finish).

That is quite a bit different to some other Vic clubs.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

LOL.............A North supporter trying to say that the Kanga's are safe compared to the Dee's and the Dogs


Where are the 10 "White Knights" that JB said he had organised last year?

You know.....The one's that were going to tip in a $1 million each to help save North


Look out for your own patch mate

Sigh.

The white knights were only ever a bonus. We never had their money, so not getting it means we lose nothing.

What we do have is:

* We made a bigger profit than them
* We take less off the AFL
* We have more members 9and will again this year)
* We have less debt issues
* A brighter short to medium term onfield certainly than Melbourne and probably equal to above Footscray

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Hawthorn like Richmond, Collingwood and Carlton ran into troubles due to mismanagement.

They are structurally profitable (and Hawthorn would still make multi million $ profits with 11 Vic home games and a mid table finish).

That is quite a bit different to some other Vic clubs.

Yes, but its taken you guys 12 years to get there. Good on you too, but to demand other clubs do the same in 12 months like some here door is a bit much.

Its all about the trend. For mine, North are trending in the right direction: towards sustainability. Footscray are treading water, while Melbourne are really depp in it.

 

[youarewrong]

Im sure the AFL will release it's own stimulus package, no club is going anywhere, unless of course they bought BBN shares.

 

[shintemaster]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Hawthorn like Richmond, Collingwood and Carlton ran into troubles due to mismanagement.

They are structurally profitable (and Hawthorn would still make multi million $ profits with 11 Vic home games and a mid table finish).

That is quite a bit different to some other Vic clubs.

That is such patent BS that it astounds me you believe it. The reason that Hawthorn are able to say they would be profitable with 11 Vic home games is because they started playing games in Tasmania. Why do you think you are in the position of being 'structurally' profitable?

Hawthorn will be in an unenviable position in the near future. Do they support a possible Tassie team? Do they move games back to Melbourne and thereby make it very difficult to go back if they need the money later on? Do not kid yourself, there is no magic bullet, given the right circumstances any club could find itself in big trouble.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

They are structurally profitable (and Hawthorn would still make multi million $ profits with 11 Vic home games and a mid table finish).

That's if you got all 11 at the G, which you wouldn't.

Remember you had to sell games to Tassie coz your members wouldn't go to the Dome and the AFL wouldn't give you CBF.

So no, you're not structurally profitable in terms of 11 games at home in Melbourne.

 

[worthogs]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

If you're referring to 1996, the club's supporter base were largely responsible for digging itself out of the debt that today sees us with a 40,000 strong membership base, state of the art facilities and excellent crowd levels. That, despite the AFL selling our home ground in 1999.

All Victorian clubs have had issues in past, but we are discussing today - and as the topic suggests - there are factors that may leave weak clubs in trouble. Absolutely nothing to do with what occured 1996 for any club.

You forget the extra cash deal you were given to relinquish Waverly as a home ground... and get the G instead. Good deal by the hawks and no complaints, however what got you in trouble at the time was member apathy. The most successful modern day team and you were on the brink of a merger. Member revolt on both sides stopped it and from memory your membership took off the next year.from memory it doubled in one year (cats and dog jokes aside).....Funny its a bit like North today except they do not have any leverage over a Ground the AFL wants to get rid of.

 

[Geelong63]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Sigh.

The white knights were only ever a bonus. We never had their money, so not getting it means we lose nothing.

What we do have is:

* We made a bigger profit than them
* We take less off the AFL
* We have more members 9and will again this year)
* We have less debt issues
* A brighter short to medium term onfield certainly than Melbourne and probably equal to above Footscray

You mean that JB was just shooting his mouth off re "The White Knights"

The Dogs and the Dee's are hammering the Roo's on Memberships this year.

Need I say too much more

 

[Hinkley29]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Need I say too much more

You actually haven't said anything of note yet, so yes I do think you need to say more.

 

[medusala]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

That is such patent BS that it astounds me you believe it. The reason that Hawthorn are able to say they would be profitable with 11 Vic home games is because they started playing games in Tasmania. Why do you think you are in the position of being 'structurally' profitable?

It is without doubt correct. The Hawks received $3m a year sponsorship which is about $1m more than they would otherwise get. They get payments per game but offsetting this is the profits they lose from the games vs Vic clubs in Melbourne (2 games), corp sponsorship, cost to reimburse members for designated away games etc. All in all the NET to the club is likely to be less than $2m if not less . Yet the last two years have seen the club make $4-$5m profit.

Lets not forget the Saints made no NET profit from Tas when in a top 4 position. Hawthorn itself was faced with a $1m loss despite selling two games in Tas. The turnaround has come not just from better onfield performances but also a number of changes within the administration. In Jeffs first year the finances turned around massively. This was pre the current Tas deal.

Hawthorn have demonstrated they can easily make multi million $ profits without selling home games.

That is beyond dispute. Even if something did go wrong Hawthorn will have a very big balance sheet to fall back on just as the Pies had.

If selling games is so profitable why did North stop doing it?

 

[medusala]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

That's if you got all 11 at the G, which you wouldn't.

Remember you had to sell games to Tassie coz your members wouldn't go to the Dome and the AFL wouldn't give you CBF.

So no, you're not structurally profitable in terms of 11 games at home in Melbourne.

Dont forget that the Hawks sell two games vs Vic clubs, games which they would make good money on.

As above Hawthorn is structurally profitable with 11 home games in Victoria

Easily so.

 

[ChrisFooty]

I think St.kilda are going to struggle to break even in 2009, let alone make a profit. Unfortunley, they will not be the only club facing that prospect.

Surely Western Sydney can not take place in 2011 if the GFC kicks on in 2009 and well into 2010. Even the Gold Coast team should process with extreme caution.

 

[RUNVS]

I think St.kilda are going to struggle to break even in 2009, let alone make a profit. Unfortunley, they will not be the only club facing that prospect.

Surely Western Sydney can not take place in 2011 if the GFC kicks on in 2009 and well into 2010. Even the Gold Coast team should process with extreme caution.

I think 2012 will be a good year for the Western Sydney team to join the competition as the financial crisis will be over by then.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

You mean that JB was just shooting his mouth off re "The White Knights"

The Dogs and the Dee's are hammering the Roo's on Memberships this year.

Need I say too much more

No, I think the changing financial circumstances may have changed their situation. Lot of people have lost a lot of money recently. For example, one of they key suspects for a white knight was former Merrill Lynch boss John Magowan. reckon he would have seen his net worth drop a fair bit.

But as I said, we never had the, so we aren't losing them.

On the memberships, you need to say more. Or more accurately, you need to think more, then say stuff.

Its Jan 13. Two months before even the first game, and many more months before the totals are decided.

Footscray and Melbourne (both lacking major sponsors) started their campaigns earlier than ours and with desperation. Ours isn't so desperate.

Also, they have a far bigger auto renewal than us. We are only just getting that going. But over the last month, we've outperformed them. And our machien is only just kicking into gear.

We'll get circa 32k this year, maybe a bit more. A top result. And we have a major sponsor, and we take less off the AFL, and we make higher profits.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Dont forget that the Hawks sell two games vs Vic clubs, games which they would make good money on.

As above Hawthorn is structurally profitable with 11 home games in Victoria

Easily so.

Maybe not easily so. Your massively increased membership helps.

But if your fans don't like going to Telstra, and the AFL scheduled games against the Freos and Ports there, then you might be back to sqaure one.

Would your Tassie members hang on if you abandoned them? Would you make 600k per game on those melbourne home games?

I'm not saing you'd be in the shit, far from it, but moving back to Melbourne would dramatically alter your situation.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

I think St.kilda are going to struggle to break even in 2009, let alone make a profit. Unfortunley, they will not be the only club facing that prospect.

Surely Western Sydney can not take place in 2011 if the GFC kicks on in 2009 and well into 2010. Even the Gold Coast team should process with extreme caution.

St Kilda are a team that I've always thought is one or two bad years from being in the crap.

 

[RUNVS]

St Kilda are a team that I've always thought is one or two bad years from being in the crap.

Alot of teams are in that category. Just look at Port Adelaide to see how quickly fans will jump off a bandwaggon.

 

[medusala]

Re: Economic downturn will sink book in to clubs

Maybe not easily so. Your massively increased membership helps.

The clubs profit turned around by about $2m in Jeffs first year. This despite being still rubbish on field and on the old Tas deal. Yes the club sold 2 games in Qld allegedly due to the Olympics but IIRC gross this accounted for less than $1m (600k?) and it greatly annoyed alot of members so the net result wasnt thought to be great.

But if your fans don't like going to Telstra, and the AFL scheduled games against the Freos and Ports there, then you might be back to sqaure one.

Yes but losses on those two games would be small.

Would your Tassie members hang on if you abandoned them?

a) the Saints did supposedly
b) we had around 2k fully paid up members before, we have 4k now which I assume are mostly paying only 4 game memberships. So very little effect. Plus more than likely gain Vic members on the back of it which would be a big positive. Just as North management stated that they knew selling games hurt their membership sales.

Would you make 600k per game on those melbourne home games?

The club plays two Vic teams. A game vs a club like Richmond is very profitable. Not only that but you have to consider not having to reimburse members for designated away games, extra sponsorship, members, corporate income etc.

I'm not saing you'd be in the shit, far from it, but moving back to Melbourne would dramatically alter your situation.

I repeat again. The Saints made ZERO NET CASH from Tas in their final year.

People confuse gross with net.

 

[dave10]

Essendon are the most cash rich...i believe

Richest full stop. By a fair way.