Economic downturn will sink boot in to clubs

[shintemaster]

Care to explain this uninformed naive stupidity ?...or did u just make it up as u went along ?

Got any idea what % the Pies contributed top the 780mil compared to say Sydney and Brisbane ? Take a wild guess.

You need an education on how the game works these days and where the money comes from.

We're waiting...?

 

[Bollox]

There are some Melbournites in here that still seem to avoid joining the real world...its like they still view Melb clubs as the heart of the comp...perhaps they think its the melb clubs that generate everything...perhaps they think the 'interstate' clubs are just there as amusement.

Perhaps it'd be just too difficult or too much of a shock to learn the reality of what the melb clubs contribute to the coffers as opposed to Perth, Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane.

Sandringham V Oakleigh on a Sunday..thats what is left these days without the money from the interstate clubs....and the rights from the two most populous states in the country.

You either want the game as it stands now...and understand HOW it exists this way and stop bullshytting people...or u ask for a melbourne breakaway comp where u can hope like hell half the clubs are still around next yr..or there's enough money to upkeep princes park for the VFA grand final.

 

[Bollox]

We're waiting...?

Look it up yourself..instead of being a classic North fan EXPECTING others to do the work for you. Learn something about the game in its current form and where the BIG revenues come from...it will go a long way toward u understanding why North are seen by the AFL as nothing more than making up the numbers.

 

[Shinboner Schem]

Look it up yourself..instead of being a classic North fan EXPECTING others to do the work for you. Learn something about the game in its current form and where the BIG revenues come from...it will go a long way toward u understanding why North are seen by the AFL as nothing more than making up the numbers.

something regarding kettles, pots, and a very dark color springs to mind here with trolls like this

 

[MarkT]

Care to explain this uninformed naive stupidity ?...or did u just make it up as u went along ?

Got any idea what % the Pies contributed top the 780mil compared to say Sydney and Brisbane ? Take a wild guess.

You need an education on how the game works these days and where the money comes from.

There are a lot of revenue sources. 4 of the main sources are the TV money, gate proceeds, AFL memberships and catering rights and Collingwood would contribute a lot more than Sydney in all of those areas. Another major source is AFL sponsorship revenue which is undoubtedly enhanced by the national exposure but the degree to which the developing markets directly contribute would depend on the sponsors view of the numbers and importantly the passion of the population. Collingwood are not the issue though. Ch 9 didn’t show AFL in prime time in Sydney because they had what they wanted in the Sydney market. How much do you think they paid to show it at bed time in Sydney? Why don’t the AFL insist on prime time coverage against RL in Sydney and Brisbane?

The only real test for broadcast revenue would be to allow all clubs to sell their 11 round home game package to the TV networks and radio. I’m pretty sure Collingwood would be at the top of the bidding with Essendon Adelaide and West Coast. I’m pretty sure Sydney would be around the arse end. Would a radio station even bother to bid for Sydney? Who would they take the relay from? As for TV, you’d have a single market interested in a single product and the ratings don’t justify a big spend.

Sydney is the pot at the end of the rainbow but where the hell are the leprechauns?

 

[shintemaster]

Look it up yourself..instead of being a classic North fan EXPECTING others to do the work for you. Learn something about the game in its current form and where the BIG revenues come from...it will go a long way toward u understanding why North are seen by the AFL as nothing more than making up the numbers.

In other words you don't know **** about it and can't prove anything - except that you like running your mouth off.

 

[Bollox]

In other words you don't know **** about it and can't prove anything - except that you like running your mouth off.

No chump...thats you reaching for any excuse not to educate yourself.

Dont ask to be spoonfed.

Very good reason why you should look it up for yourself...because obviously your too bloody stupid to believe what anyone else tells you anyway. You dont want to believe what u read in here so go read about it then come back with an educated opinion for a change.

 

[Bollox]

There are a lot of revenue sources. 4 of the main sources are the TV money, gate proceeds, AFL memberships and catering rights and Collingwood would contribute a lot more than Sydney in all of those areas. Another major source is AFL sponsorship revenue which is undoubtedly enhanced by the national exposure but the degree to which the developing markets directly contribute would depend on the sponsors view of the numbers and importantly the passion of the population. Collingwood are not the issue though. Ch 9 didn’t show AFL in prime time in Sydney because they had what they wanted in the Sydney market. How much do you think they paid to show it at bed time in Sydney? Why don’t the AFL insist on prime time coverage against RL in Sydney and Brisbane?

The only real test for broadcast revenue would be to allow all clubs to sell their 11 round home game package to the TV networks and radio. I’m pretty sure Collingwood would be at the top of the bidding with Essendon Adelaide and West Coast. I’m pretty sure Sydney would be around the arse end. Would a radio station even bother to bid for Sydney? Who would they take the relay from? As for TV, you’d have a single market interested in a single product and the ratings don’t justify a big spend.

Sydney is the pot at the end of the rainbow but where the hell are the leprechauns?

Mark...nice attempt but you;re just rambling with guesswork and speculation. Perhaps u like to assume the Pies are simply the biggest or greatest at many things and its clouding your opinion. btw..u forgot merchandise.

Read up about the 780mil instead of wondering about catering and getting confused with irrelevant things like club memberships etc.

 

[Bollox]

The TELEVISION SET. Marvellous invention and A1 on the list of revenue streams for most sports worldwide including the AFL.

You put money into North and you immediately know u have lost that money...there is no likelihood of a return at all.

You cant expect the AFL to be happy with that when there are too many clubs in Melb and more important markets on the horizon.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Mark...nice attempt but you;re just rambling with guesswork and speculation. Perhaps u like to assume the Pies are simply the biggest or greatest at many things and its clouding your opinion. btw..u forgot merchandise.

Read up about the 780mil instead of wondering about catering and getting confused with irrelevant things like club memberships etc.

At $138mil cash per year (x 5 = $690mil + $90mil advertising contras) TV revenue whilst very significant doesn't make up half the AFL's income. In 2007 the AFL's total income was $284mil. In 2008 TV revenue will be a smaller percentage of total revenue than 2007.

Sydney would contribute more than 1/16th to TV deal but that's because the stations can sell national advertising packages with a Sydney team in the comp and ad rates in Sydney are more expensive than the rest of the country. But a 2nd Sydney team wont contribute more than 1% of the the next TV deal. It's the TV deals after the 2012-16 contract that its worth may increase.

But it would be an interesting exercise if the clubs could sell off their own TV rights such as you get in the Italian Serie A and the Spanish La Liga. I reckon Mark T is right and the 4 powerhouse clubs of West Coast, Adelaide, Collingwood and Essendon would get the largest contracts.

 

[Bollox]

At $138mil cash per year (x 5 = $690mil + $90mil advertising contras) TV revenue whilst very significant doesn't make up half the AFL's income. In 2007 the AFL's total income was $284mil. In 2008 TV revenue will be a smaller percentage of total revenue than 2007.

Sydney would contribute more than 1/16th to TV deal but that's because the stations can sell national advertising packages with a Sydney team in the comp and ad rates in Sydney are more expensive than the rest of the country. But a 2nd Sydney team wont contribute more than 1% of the the next TV deal. It's the TV deals after the 2012-16 contract that its worth may increase.

But it would be an interesting exercise if the clubs could sell off their own TV rights such as you get in the Italian Serie A and the Spanish La Liga. I reckon Mark T is right and the 4 powerhouse clubs of West Coast, Adelaide, Collingwood and Essendon would get the largest contracts.

Fair enough...so what % of the 780mil do u think was directly attributable to the NSW and QLD markets...i.e. the NON aussie rules strongholds ?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Fair enough...so what % of the 780mil do u think was directly attributable to the NSW and QLD markets...i.e. the NON aussie rules strongholds ?

My gut feel is that rather than each team proving 6.66% of the total deal, Sydney would be 10% to 12% maybe as high as 15% but you really need to see the ad revenue figures to know if it's that high. Brisbane would be 8% to 10% because SE Qld is seen as one TV market of 2.8 mil people.

 

[gopies1981]

These clubs are safe in Victoria;

Carlton - Has a big following Australia wide and when winning draw huge crowds! also alot of contact e.g dick pratt to get them out of financial trouble.

Collingwood - Has the most fans out of the victorian clubs and breaks record home and away attendance figures year in year out! Even if they lost 8 million in 2008 by selling 2 pubs still made a 2.4 million operating profit! Should Recover the lost 8 million in 3 years!

Essendon - Similar to Carlton as they have a big following Australia wide. Has more Cash Assests then any other club in the AFL! So even if they make losses in the next couple of years 18 million in cash assests is enough to cover the losses!

Hawthorn - Powerful on and off the Field! If they keep winning they will be fine! with hawthorn having only half the supporter base of Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton Australia wide they have the best membership to supporter base ratio in the league! looks like breaking 50,000 member's in 2009! also playing 4 home games in tasmania helps them as well!

Geelong - One team town of 200,000 people! make 600,000 profit for each game they play at skilled stadium! also had a very strong supporter base!

But Richmond, St.kilda, Melbourne, North Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs will struggle for sponsorship and if Richmond and St.kila in particular do not start winning they will to make profits but if they start winning they both have good latent support in Melbourne!

 

[Bollox]

My gut feel is that rather than each team proving 6.66% of the total deal, Sydney would be 10% to 12% maybe as high as 15% but you really need to see the ad revenue figures to know if it's that high. Brisbane would be 8% to 10% because SE Qld is seen as one TV market of 2.8 mil people.

yeah its massive...when the deal was done Demetriou said the minimum was 30% between the two states and many viewed it possibly as high as 50%. TV works on numbers as u know...whether they get value for their $ is their problem but its certainly a clue as to why the AFL are so intent on NSW and QLD.

It is also still the main goal of the AFL to have a true national competition..thats the strategic aim whilst running an entertainment business and governing body. Whilst the AFL still hasnt successfully infiltrated the northern states u could argue the benefits are already substantial.

 

[Bollox]

At $138mil cash per year (x 5 = $690mil + $90mil advertising contras) TV revenue whilst very significant doesn't make up half the AFL's income. In 2007 the AFL's total income was $284mil. In 2008 TV revenue will be a smaller percentage of total revenue than 2007.....

But it would be an interesting exercise if the clubs could sell off their own TV rights such as you get in the Italian Serie A and the Spanish La Liga. I reckon Mark T is right and the 4 powerhouse clubs of West Coast, Adelaide, Collingwood and Essendon would get the largest contracts.

Depends how you word this.

You can say it doesnt even make up half or u can say at about 48% of revenue its the biggest single earner.

Even if its only a 30% contribution (conservative) from NSW and QLD that still represents one ENORMOUS slice of revenue our game is receiving.

The thread is about the economic downturn...all businesses prioritise the maintenance of their revenue streams as a priority during such periods...u sure up what you ALREADY HAVE assuming that will be the single largest improvement relative to others as total income drops. They have expensive plans but no surprise they are aimed where the big $ can (and already do) come.

Even at a minimum of 30% contribution from QLD and NSW...that represents over $40m pa revenue just from tv rights directly attributable to NSW and QLD. For non footy states i think we can all see the potential for our game if the AFL makes serious inroads...certainly no secret to the AFL.

The last part u mention about inidvidual tv rights is just speculation. The reality is there will likely be a considerable drop in revenues over the next 2 yrs due to a reduction in disposable income across the board...the AFL will protect their main revenue sources and try to expand on them if they can. They are highly unlikely to be tight with the $ to NSW and QLD but can easily tighten up with SOME Melb clubs.

 

[Bollox]

If the ecomony dips into recession it will be the second a national comp will have gone thru...just after the AFL was formed a recession hit so maybe its best just to have a look to see what happened early 90's with everything from club memberships to revenues.

Probably not worth worrying about or discussing anyway...footy is arguably a recession proof business. Its a pseudo-religion people flock to during bad times.
Some of the most popular times the game has enjoyed have been during severe economic hardship.

 

[sherrinorburley]

It is also still the main goal of the AFL to have a true national competition..thats the strategic aim whilst running an entertainment business and governing body. Whilst the AFL still hasnt successfully infiltrated the northern states u could argue the benefits are already substantial.

It is not the AFL's main goal at all. Another Queensland and NSW team are not going to do that.

Tasmania and NT. Two Australian Rules Footy States that should have been in the competition years ago. Then it would be closer to a National competition.

 

[Bollox]

It is not the AFL's main goal at all. Another Queensland and NSW team are not going to do that.

Tasmania and NT. Two Australian Rules Footy States that should have been in the competition years ago. Then it would be closer to a National competition.

OK then...seeing u know what others dont u should EMail Vlad immediately and tell him you know the aim of the AFL is not to be a national competition...let him know you're onto his clandestine agenda and know better than he does.

let us know how u get on.

 

[chesson]

It is also still the main goal of the AFL to have a true national competition.

Really? Please explain.

Where's Tasmania and the NT? Forget ACT. Its not the main goal at all.

Maybe you should email vlad and let him in on the other states seeing as your so privy.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Hey dont bother trying some amateurish attempt to align Sydney or even Brissy as a club with the problems North are going to face out of any economic downturn. Its chalk and cheese.

Chalk and cheese, my rectum.

We draw more on average to our games than Sydney does yet there is a $7m gap between the two. A significant chunk of the profit margin from games is being taken by third party owned stadiums, thanks largely to deals the AFL had made with them.

Imagine us getting an extra $7m a year from just our current attendance levels.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13400638&postcount=23

In other words, NORTH are paying off an assett of which Sydney FC will get a 1/16th share.

STOP BLUDGING ON US!!!!

7 million more dollars would completely wipe out all our debt ad put several million in the bank. Several years of this would see us home and hosed. When we get a revised stadium deal we will be leaving the likes of Sydney FC in our wake.

 

[Rob]

In other words, NORTH are paying off an assett of which Sydney FC will get a 1/16th share.

You're not paying off shit. The AFL have already paid for it. Can't pay off something that's already been paid for.

STOP BLUDGING ON US!!!!

7 million more dollars would completely wipe out all our debt ad put several million in the bank. Several years of this would see us home and hosed. When we get a revised stadium deal we will be leaving the likes of Sydney FC in our wake.

It's easy Mario - just charge $20 a ticket more per head and earn more than a pittance from corporates, and you too can have your own money bin.

But first, you seem to be confused between income and expenses, so i'd do a bit of reading about that.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

You're not paying off shit. The AFL have already paid for it. Can't pay off something that's already been paid for.

Really genius? The AFL own Telstra Dome?

It's easy Mario - just charge $20 a ticket more per head and earn more than a pittance from corporates, and you too can have your own money bin.
But first, you seem to be confused between income and expenses, so i'd do a bit of reading about that.

Your mob can stop bludging on us as well.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Sydney is the pot at the end of the rainbow but where the hell are the leprechauns?

They had one but he is going home to play for Kerry.

This is why I argue the Swans are a busted flush and should be closed down. They have capped out in terms of the market share they can there.

Sydney's a shallow image obssessed town, and if a re-branded club was done right, they'd fall for it.

The Swans have shown their limitations as the Sydney franchise.

The WS franchise isn't going ahead.

Time to ditch the failed Swans brand and give Sydney a more representative team that speaks to the whole city, if not state.

Maybe the New South Wales Corruption, and you could have a Hamburgler type figure, or a convict, as the mascot.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

They had one but he is going home to play for Kerry.

This is why I argue the Swans are a busted flush and should be closed down. They have capped out in terms of the market share they can there.

Sydney's a shallow image obssessed town, and if a re-branded club was done right, they'd fall for it.

The Swans have shown their limitations as the Sydney franchise.

The WS franchise isn't going ahead.

Time to ditch the failed Swans brand and give Sydney a more representative team that speaks to the whole city, if not state.

Maybe the New South Wales Corruption, and you could have a Hamburgler type figure, or a convict, as the mascot.

Actually, you raise a very good point.

Would the NSW ratings shift one iota if the Sydney Swans ceased to exist tomorrow?

 

[Rob]

Really genius? The AFL own Telstra Dome?

Can you read? I said they've *paid* for it.

Your mob can stop bludging on us as well.

You couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag.