EDFL Premier Discussion 2023

[Turbos mail]

Just watched a fair bit of the replay Keilor/Pacco. Geez Turbo , a lot of ordinary efforts from some Pacco players who are on plenty of coin.
Let's hope the Mores win this week , at least they will challenge Keilor physically if they make it.

Haven’t watched it as yet mate but that result I probably would agree. Pacco had a strong list on the park and would expect a better showing.

 

[Route 59]

Ruck- Matt Dennis
Full Forward - Matthew Clark
Full Back - Lachlan Stredwick
Midfield - Corey Ellis, Nick Maric, Nick O'Kearney

Clark kicked most of his goals against the bottom sides. Yes he kicked 4 on Sunday but Pacco played like a bottom 4 side.


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[danger_wood]

Haven’t watched it as yet mate but that result I probably would agree. Pacco had a strong list on the park and would expect a better showing.

Turbs, if the Panthers produce something similar to what they served up against Keilor, they will be no match for Strathmore.

Could be argued that Pacco have had the best list on paper the last two seasons, you’d think anything but a grand final appearance would be a failure.

 

[torpfrom50]

Clark kicked most of his goals against the bottom sides. Yes he kicked 4 on Sunday but Pacco played like a bottom 4 side.


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So do all the key forwards

 

[the horse whisper]

I heard Heath Shaw

23

Heath Shaw

Age

38

Ht

183cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.0

5star

K

15.8

5star

HB

5.2

4star

M

6.3

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

472.4

5star

D

14.5

3star

K

11.0

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.6

3star

MG

244.0

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

3.8

3star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

wins most improve player at EK.
does he get or a .

 

[torpfrom50]

Why can't we say not reappointed

You can

 

[chic The Greek]

You mean improve coach

 

[Route 59]

So do all the key forwards

I’ll rephrase it, he doesn’t kick enough against the good sides.


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[Joe Dirty laundry]

You mean improve coach

mate all you have done is pay out on Pat for a week, what are your credentials apart from being a former forwards coach at EK that was sacked by Rocky?

there is clearly a reason why Rocky was sacked from EK many years ago, never appointed as the senior coach at st bernards after 13 years there and 4 applications for the role, didn't get the Marby job and the Airport west job which i can confirm that he was interviewed for.

couldn't give 2 hoots about your thoughts on the coaching at EK, couldn't give 2 you know whats about EK either, the forums serve a purpose which majority of users want, and that is to give and hear opinions about clubs performance and player movements, tips ETC, ETC, i have forced myself to create a second account just to tell you to deal with your personal issues with Pat outside of this forum that has literally been done to death with EK.

 

[The Cash Man]

Back to the hills for Ek what a terrible performance, attack the player ?? Was that the game plan??
The biggest comedy show since the Greeks playing soccer

 

[Survey]

mate all you have done is pay out on Pat for a week, what are your credentials apart from being a former forwards coach at EK that was sacked by Rocky?

there is clearly a reason why Rocky was sacked from EK many years ago, never appointed as the senior coach at st bernards after 13 years there and 4 applications for the role, didn't get the Marby job and the Airport west job which i can confirm that he was interviewed for.

couldn't give 2 hoots about your thoughts on the coaching at EK, couldn't give 2 you know whats about EK either, the forums serve a purpose which majority of users want, and that is to give and hear opinions about clubs performance and player movements, tips ETC, ETC, i have forced myself to create a second account just to tell you to deal with your personal issues with Pat outside of this forum that has literally been done to death with EK.

Ease up Joe , at minimum you'd have to admit with the way Pat conducts himself he leaves himself open for scrutiny.

 

[torpfrom50]

I’ll rephrase it, he doesn’t kick enough against the good sides.


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Ok, fair enough! Who does??

 

[Joe Dirty laundry]

Ease up Joe , at minimum you'd have to admit with the way Pat conducts himself he leaves himself open for scrutiny.

Mate, sorry if this comes across as blunt or rude, I do not care about the way that any coach carries on, I want a supporters view of the on field stuff.

EG: the weekend just gone, how about not discrediting the way Strathmore played, Cavenagh set up very well in the backing, did not allow EK forwards the opportunity for ground balls, Will Jury's work rate around the ground. Strathmores ability to lock the ball inside 50 and create multiple scoring opportunities from 1 entry, strathmore conceded defeat in the ruck but managed to smash EK in clearances.

That is what I want to see, maybe start up an EK thread if there is that much of an obsession.

Prediction for this week: strathmore by 36 points

 

[Thunder1]

mate all you have done is pay out on Pat for a week, what are your credentials apart from being a former forwards coach at EK that was sacked by Rocky?

there is clearly a reason why Rocky was sacked from EK many years ago, never appointed as the senior coach at st bernards after 13 years there and 4 applications for the role, didn't get the Marby job and the Airport west job which i can confirm that he was interviewed for.

couldn't give 2 hoots about your thoughts on the coaching at EK, couldn't give 2 you know whats about EK either, the forums serve a purpose which majority of users want, and that is to give and hear opinions about clubs performance and player movements, tips ETC, ETC, i have forced myself to create a second account just to tell you to deal with your personal issues with Pat outside of this forum that has literally been done to death with EK.

Joe Dirty laundry so you have provided plenty of reasons why Rocky was sacked
I think the question though should be, who appointed him in the first place, if as you say his record was what you have written it was?
Does the person who appointed him need to be held accountable for not doing due diligence?
As for EK losing last week, I would say the overall ability from 1-22 wasn’t as great as the opposition, hence a near 100 point loss to end EK’s season

 

[Joe Dirty laundry]

Joe Dirty laundry so you have provided plenty of reasons why Rocky was sacked
I think the question though should be, who appointed him in the first place, if as you say his record was what you have written it was?
Does the person who appointed him need to be held accountable for not doing due diligence?
As for EK losing last week, I would say the overall ability from 1-22 wasn’t as great as the opposition, hence a near 100 point loss to end EK’s season

you will find that Pat has been pretty transparent with the playing group that, he takes full responsibility for the appointment mate.

You hit it on the head in regards to the overall ability of the 22, there is a clear advantage of a team playing at 22 points vs a team that has not had a great junior program over the past 10 years hence the reason for the heavy recruiting. My opinion recruiting the right age demographic will help build long term success until your junior foundation is strong enough to compete with the usual suspects like Keilor, strathmore and Abers. Then recruiting players to fill holes becomes the norm.

 

[torpfrom50]

Totpftom50 what do you know, go back to where you came from, nobody gives a s**t about your comments. 30 plus juniors and 30 plus seniors coming to EK. Must be a good club, because your crying that your baby boy got moved on.

This aged well, Where is move on boys??

 

[tweckkkoooo]

you will find that Pat has been pretty transparent with the playing group that, he takes full responsibility for the appointment mate.

You hit it on the head in regards to the overall ability of the 22, there is a clear advantage of a team playing at 22 points vs a team that has not had a great junior program over the past 10 years hence the reason for the heavy recruiting. My opinion recruiting the right age demographic will help build long term success until your junior foundation is strong enough to compete with the usual suspects like Keilor, strathmore and Abers. Then recruiting players to fill holes becomes the norm.

Yeah ‘heavy recruiting’ alright. How about offering $2500+ per game to local players still playing at their junior club for MUCH LESS than that.

Just a joke. And cheating is not a good look. So much dodgy stuff, and can assure you a lot of junior and senior players are happy to Say goodbye to that place after this year.

 

[Joe Dirty laundry]

Yeah ‘heavy recruiting’ alright. How about offering $2500+ per game to local players still playing at their junior club for MUCH LESS than that.

Just a joke. And cheating is not a good look. So much dodgy stuff, and can assure you a lot of junior and senior players are happy to Say goodbye to that place after this year.

Not sure what you want me to do about it LOL, as stated in another post I couldn't give 2 about what goes on and how they do business, not the first to pay overs and won't be the last.

You seem to know alot about what goes on at EK and have been quite vocal since the coaching change.

If you want to continue to vent please do so, you don't have to reason with me I am sure the powers that be at EK will take it all on board.

Cheating? term that is very loosely thrown around. Wouldn't the previous coach have some egg on his face if he was more than happy for things to be going on whilst at the helm and then calls it out when on the outer.

I can't wait for the 2024 thread when deer Park are in the conversation.

I was just trying to make a stance and clean up the forum that is meant to be about footy but it clearly hasn't worked.

Maybe we can get a Netflix series going on the case of Rocky and Scarps vs Pat, will be more interesting than the Depp vs Heard case.

 

[torpfrom50]

Not sure what you want me to do about it LOL, as stated in another post I couldn't give 2 about what goes on and how they do business, not the first to pay overs and won't be the last.

You seem to know alot about what goes on at EK and have been quite vocal since the coaching change.

If you want to continue to vent please do so, you don't have to reason with me I am sure the powers that be at EK will take it all on board.

Cheating? term that is very loosely thrown around. Wouldn't the previous coach have some egg on his face if he was more than happy for things to be going on whilst at the helm and then calls it out when on the outer.

I can't wait for the 2024 thread when deer Park are in the conversation.

I was just trying to make a stance and clean up the forum that is meant to be about footy but it clearly hasn't worked.

Maybe we can get a Netflix series going on the case of Rocky and Scarps vs Pat, will be more interesting than the Depp vs Heard case.

Who the hell is Scarps?

 

[Joe Dirty laundry]

Who the hell is Scarps?

Rockys assistant

 

[Survey]

Not sure what you want me to do about it LOL, as stated in another post I couldn't give 2 about what goes on and how they do business, not the first to pay overs and won't be the last.

You seem to know alot about what goes on at EK and have been quite vocal since the coaching change.

If you want to continue to vent please do so, you don't have to reason with me I am sure the powers that be at EK will take it all on board.

Cheating? term that is very loosely thrown around. Wouldn't the previous coach have some egg on his face if he was more than happy for things to be going on whilst at the helm and then calls it out when on the outer.

I can't wait for the 2024 thread when deer Park are in the conversation.

I was just trying to make a stance and clean up the forum that is meant to be about footy but it clearly hasn't worked.

Maybe we can get a Netflix series going on the case of Rocky and Scarps vs Pat, will be more interesting than the Depp vs Heard case.

cheating is not loosely thrown around champ , its a fact at EK

 

[Joe Dirty laundry]

cheating is not loosely thrown around champ , its a fact at EK

So every club plays by the rules I guess.

The salary cap was $110k, budgeted over 18 games it works out to be $277 average per player.

In your honest opinion would every club be spending the cap or less, whether you are $1 over or $200k over rules are rules.

I can't answer it as I don't know what players in the league are getting paid and apart from abers a few years ago. Rupertswood and Keilor Park last year, no one has been caught as far as I am aware

 

[torpfrom50]

So every club plays by the rules I guess.

The salary cap was $110k, budgeted over 18 games it works out to be $277 average per player.

In your honest opinion would every club be spending the cap or less, whether you are $1 over or $200k over rules are rules.

I can't answer it as I don't know what players in the league are getting paid and apart from abers a few years ago. Rupertswood and Keilor Park last year, no one has been caught as far as I am aware

Being caught vs Blatant cheating are two different thing and they say all good things come to those who wait!

 

[torpfrom50]

cheating is not loosely thrown around champ , its a fact at EK

Salary cap discussions expose an ethical leadership dilemma for clubs​

Salary cap discussions expose an ethical leadership dilemma for clubs​

General Category​

In a previous life I had the honour and pleasure of being the CEO of the Mornington Peninsula Nepean Football League (MPNFL). At the time, 2007 -2008, the MPNFL was a combination of three separate football leagues and a netball league.
During my CEO tenure one of the biggest issues continually raised by clubs was the burden of rising player payment costs. Clubs felt, if they wanted to reach the finals, they had to spend significant and increasing amounts of money each year on attracting and retaining players to their club. The burden of raising the funds as normal fell to the volunteers.
It was with much interest that I read the press release issued by AFL Victoria on 22 October 2014 (Access full release here) that announced the “Player Payments Working Party” established by AFL Victoria had suggested a framework which sought to “halt the escalating cost of player payments“. The potential framework included, amongst other things, a state wide salary cap with specific limits for individual leagues.
My initial thought, as an ex league CEO, was of course it will never work because it can’t really be enforced. The online feedback from the various clubs and leagues is pretty much summarised by the following comments by various club presidents which appeared in the Monash Weekly (Access full article here ) the day after the AFL Victoria press release:
“It’s impractical. It won’t work,”
“If clubs want to pay someone they will just direct it through someone else”
“If there are third-party arrangements, such as a hotel, what’s to stop the hotel paying players direct?”
“How are you going to police that?”
“I don’t mind the intent and the principle of it, but realistically, it’s not practical.”
“I think it would be impossible to police”
“You could give clubs guidelines, I guess, on what the rules are going to be, but you’ll always have coterie groups, backhanded deals, that sort of thing going on.”
As I was reading the various articles I found myself agreeing whole heartedly with the various Presidents’ comments. Co-incidentally at the same time I was reading these articles I was preparing a training workshop on ethical leadership and it really forced me to think about the concept of a salary cap from an ethical leadership perspective.
Why wouldn’t a voluntary salary cap work?
The logical argument was that it was impossible to police, and so it is, but why does it need to be policed?
Would community sports clubs consciously cheat? Surely not?
Not knowing any answers I decided to change the format of the Ethical Leadership session and to tackle the issue head on.
The results were startling.
About 65 committee members from about 20 different sports and community organisations attended the session. I opened the session reading from the AFL Victoria release about the possible introduction of a salary cap and then I read the above feedback from various Presidents from the Monash Weekly. Everyone was nodding their heads in agreement. “Impossible to police” was the consensus around the crowd.
I then asked the following questions.
Would you consciously disregard the salary cap?
A few sheepish hands were raised.
What if you knew you would never get caught, would you disregard the cap?
A small number of hands rose slowly, but not many.
What about if you had finalised the team for the year and were just on the salary cap and in walks the club’s “favourite son”, a club legend back from playing at a higher level. Would you renegotiate players’ contracts to fit him in? Say there was no room in the salary cap would you knowingly and consciously breach the cap?
There was deep thought in the room now. What would they do? Some indicated they would breach the cap.
To those who answered that they would knowingly breach the cap I asked why:
“Whatever it takes to win”
“You have to do it to be able to compete”
I said to those who had been honest enough to say they would breach the cap:
So as president you agree to abide by the rules of the competition when entering it but knowingly you would breach its rules. What sort of a leader does that make you? I then asked:
Would you be prepared to stand up in front of your members and openly say we consciously broke the rules?
Would you as President be comfortable to have your conscious cheating, because that is what it is, on the front page of the local newspaper?
Would you be comfortable explaining to your friends and family why you are a cheat?
Is a person willing to cheat and break the rules of the competition the sort of person who should be leading a community club?
If the values and culture of your club is set by the leaders of the club, what sort of culture are you really creating at your club?
And so began one of the most enthralling workshops I have ever been involved in. To AFL Victoria I say congratulations on having the courage to tackle one of the biggest issues in community football. For what it’s worth I think the points system is great because it forces clubs to develop their juniors but it does not, in my experience at the MPNFL, have an impact on player payments. In fact MPNFL clubs told me it actually had the opposite effect, driving up the demands of middle and lower tier players.
If AFL Victoria proceed with the implementation of the salary cap, as I believe they should, it should be accompanied with an ethical leadership training program. Leaders of clubs need to be given not only the information about the rule but the skills they are going to need to tackle the very real issues that will arise when they seek to follow the rules.
If leaders are not given these skills then the path of least resistance will be taken, as it often is with poor leadership, and the player payment arms race will continue again.
Steve Pallas
Managing Director
Sports Community

 

[Joe Dirty laundry]

Being caught vs Blatant cheating are two different thing and they say all good things come to those who wait!

Define blatant cheating though, Armstrong cheated in the tour de France with the use of banned substances.

What are they doing different to other EDFL clubs? Offering more money to players than another club that has probably offered them a fair bit more than $277 per game, it is a serious question mate, if you are a club after a player from another club which is completely normal, new club offers a dollar figure, current club counter offers, the players play clubs off against each other for their own financial gain. Some clubs are in a better financial position than others, you can't compare clubs against other clubs as it is apples and oranges. That goes for all divisions.

The last 2 posts referenced a portion of what I wrote and neither have answered a question, are we deflecting for a reason? Is it easier to just single out one club?

And the point of ranting about it on here? How much has it actually achieved, it is like arguing with an umpire, waste of time. Doesn't seem to be any EK people taking the bait either which is why I am wondering why it is still going, all that seemed to do was feed their egos.