Opinion Elite Potential on our List

[Zach Package]

List is burgeoning with elite talent but held back by 3rd world strength and conditioning, piss poor tactical coaching and basically non existent development.

 

[Rick Ross]

List is burgeoning with elite talent but held back by 3rd world strength and conditioning, piss poor tactical coaching and basically non existent development.

Don’t disagree… “was” or “is” held back might be the question. I’m in the hoping changes mean it’s more of a “was” camp.

 

[ant555]

List is burgeoning with elite talent but held back by 3rd world strength and conditioning, piss poor tactical coaching and basically non existent development.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Elite potential, localised entirely on our list?
Yes
May I see it?
No

 

[jdstorm]

Elite potential, localised entirely on our list?
Yes
May I see it?
No

If you squint and are in complete denial about how these players careers have turned out so far. our defence includes 2 former AA squad members, a band 1 FA, a No1 overall pick and another top 10 pick (Reid) and likely a former AA mid repositioning at HB (Sheil)

Mids include 2x former AA players (Merrett + Parish) 1 x top 5 pick, 2 top 15 picks (Calders/Hobbs), and 2 breakout star Midseason draft picks. (Durham/Martin)

Rucks include the reigning VFl ruck of the year who’s quite young and one of the most athletic rucks in the game

Forward line includes 1 AA forward, 1 Crichton Medalist who has kicked 50+ goals in a season and 4 top 10ish picks (Cox, Perkins, Caddy and Kako)

That’s 21 players on the list who at one point in their lives have shown or were thought to have elite AFL potential.

 

[blitzer]

Currently Elite: Merrett
Near Elite: Langford/Martin

Probably would be elite/near elite if they stopped getting injured: Ridley/Parish

Too Inconsistent but can play at the level at times: Redman, McGrath

Shown some signs but development to go: Caddy, Durham, Roberts

Pure hope: Kako, Tsatas

If I was to say who I genuinely expect to become elite: I'd say Martin and Caddy
I think we could see a few near elite performers next year including Durham, Ridley, Parish and maybe Redman

Personally i wouldn't include Draper, Perkins, Cox, Caldwell, Hobbs as I just don't see it. Would love to be wrong. Maybe a bit harsh on Caldwell but I reckon we saw the best out of him last year which was a pretty nice B+ type midfielder.

 

[ant555]

If you squint and are in complete denial about how these players careers have turned out so far. our defence includes 2 former AA squad members, a band 1 FA, a No1 overall pick and another top 10 pick (Reid) and likely a former AA mid repositioning at HB (Sheil)

Mids include 2x former AA players (Merrett + Parish) 1 x top 5 pick, 2 top 15 picks (Calders/Hobbs), and 2 breakout star Midseason draft picks. (Durham/Martin)

Rucks include the reigning VFl ruck of the year who’s quite young and one of the most athletic rucks in the game

Forward line includes 1 AA forward, 1 Crichton Medalist who has kicked 50+ goals in a season and 4 top 10ish picks (Cox, Perkins, Caddy and Kako)

That’s 21 players on the list who at one point in their lives have shown or were thought to have elite AFL potential.

Depends on your definition of elite I guess.

 

[Zach Package]

Don’t disagree… “was” or “is” held back might be the question. I’m in the hoping changes mean it’s more of a “was” camp.

Reid is a 205 centimetre key defender who kicks piss missiles.

Ridley is a 195 centimetre back flanker who runs a sub 3 second 20 metres and can out contested mark talls while jumping off two feet.

McGrath is an obscene athlete who can shut down literally everyone, and does, regularly.

That’s one line on the team sheet.

I won’t hear ‘there is no talent there’, I’m not copping that shit.

 

[jdstorm]

Depends on your definition of elite I guess.

For sure.

Obviously quite a few of those players careers haven’t turned out as you’d want. You can clearly see the flaws with both individuals and how systemically they fit together. And you would rather have used some of those picks on others.

Just don’t like the idea of expecting this team to be 16th on talent. to me it feels just as wrong as expecting this team to be a top 4 side.

For this team to progress guys need to be expected to play at their talent level and if they don’t then their time at the club is due to come to an end

 

[faible]

Depends on your definition of elite I guess.

There's elite, then there's 'elite'.

Someone like Hird was the latter.

 

[ant555]

Reid is a 205 centimetre key defender who kicks piss missiles.

Ridley is a 195 centimetre back flanker who runs a sub 3 second 20 metres and can out contested mark talls while jumping off two feet.

McGrath is an obscene athlete who can shut down literally everyone, and does, regularly.

That’s one line on the team sheet.

I won’t hear ‘there is no talent there’, I’m not copping that shit.

Two can not stay on the park and the other is prone to serious brain farts every week.
You need to cop that shit and take the blinkers off.
Every team has talent.

 

[faible]

Two can not stay on the park and the other is prone to serious brain farts every week.
You need to cop that shit and take the blinkers off.
Every team has talent.

Plenty of talented kids never make it.

You need talent, plus work ethic, plus durability.

Working harder might help you be more durable, but some players - like Morabito - had plenty of talent but a fragile body.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Depends on your definition of elite I guess.

… and of potential

For us to get better in this phase we will need to bring in some great talent and get a whole lot more out of at least ten of this list

Hard to call anyone bar Merrett elite now, so getting better is going to include some surprises

 

[faible]

… and of potential

For us to get better in this phase we will need to bring in some great talent and get a whole lot more out of at least ten of this list

Hard to call anyone bar Merrett elite now, so getting better is going to include some surprises

Ridley is elite, just can't keep him on the park.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Ridley is elite, just can't keep him on the park.

Yep, that's a fair call

You know who wasn't elite though? Zac Clarke.

 

[ant555]

For sure.

Obviously quite a few of those players careers haven’t turned out as you’d want. You can clearly see the flaws with both individuals and how systemically they fit together. And you would rather have used some of those picks on others.

Just don’t like the idea of expecting this team to be 16th on talent. to me it feels just as wrong as expecting this team to be a top 4 side.

For this team to progress guys need to be expected to play at their talent level and if they don’t then their time at the club is due to come to an end

There may be some supporters and plenty of opposition who think we are 16th but I would say the majority around here think we are 8th to 12th and that is our problem. Enough talent to win games but no super stars , not enough genuine leaders and lacking the mental toughness to take the next step in recent years. Add that to the revolving door of coaches. The after effects of the saga. Lack of spending in player development until very recently and a list manager who was not in the wort 5 or 6 but not in the best 6 or 7 and you have us. Middle of the road flat track front runners who like the game played on our terms but struggle otherwise.

 

[jdstorm]

There may be some supporters and plenty of opposition who think we are 16th but I would say the majority around here think we are 8th to 12th and that is our problem. Enough talent to win games but no super stars , not enough genuine leaders and lacking the mental toughness to take the next step in recent years. Add that to the revolving door of coaches. The after effects of the saga. Lack of spending in player development until very recently and a list manager who was not in the wort 5 or 6 but not in the best 6 or 7 and you have us. Middle of the road flat track front runners who like the game played on our terms but struggle otherwise.

I largely agree with that.

But I’d add that were a bazball team more then a flat track team. Doesn’t really matter if it’s a flat track or not. We score when our stupidity doesn’t hurt us but any time we’re asked to make intelligent decisions we seem to fall apart. (While also struggling with physicality)

Early last year with Setters in the side we could dig in well enough and hang tough against most teams. Just couldn’t put away the easy scores when they presented

 

[ant555]

I largely agree with that.

But I’d add that were a bazball team more then a flat track team. Doesn’t really matter if it’s a flat track or not. We score when our stupidity doesn’t hurt us but any time we’re asked to make intelligent decisions we seem to fall apart. (While also struggling with physicality)

Early last year with Setters in the side we could dig in well enough and hang tough against most teams. Just couldn’t put away the easy scores when they presented

We play well when we get it on our terms. Yes we burnt ourselves with an inability to convert inside 50 entries but it does not change the fact that we have struggled to win against bottom sides when they play man on man footy and make it a more contested game around the ground.

 

[Zach Package]

Two can not stay on the park and the other is prone to serious brain farts every week.
You need to cop that shit and take the blinkers off.
Every team has talent.

The thread title is 'elite potential on our list'.

There is absolutely ****ing shitloads of it but it's being wasted, misused, undervalued, malnourished and all the other adjectives you would use to describe orphans growing up in a refugee camp.

 

[Chief Hopper]

you squint and are in complete denial about how these players careers have turned out so far. our defence includes 2 former AA squad members, a band 1 FA, a No1 overall pick and another top 10 pick (Reid) and likely a former AA mid repositioning at HB (Sheil)

Mids include 2x former AA players (Merrett + Parish) 1 x top 5 pick, 2 top 15 picks (Calders/Hobbs), and 2 breakout star Midseason draft picks. (Durham/Martin)

Rucks include the reigning VFl ruck of the year who’s quite young and one of the most athletic rucks in the game

Forward line includes 1 AA forward, 1 Crichton Medalist who has kicked 50+ goals in a season and 4 top 10ish picks (Cox, Perkins, Caddy and Kako)

That’s 21 players on the list who at one point in their lives have shown or were thought to have elite AFL potential.

I think anytime a player is on the AA list, they are elite at that time. Some can get lucky to be picked, but by and large it means that player has beaten all others in the league to get that position.

By definition, elite is a 'select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society'. If the AA squad isn't that definition, I don't know what is.

Any player first has to prove themselves on the field, play games over a season, to be considered in the AA list. I think that rules out Kako etc.

The flip side is, who are the elite leading into next season? Merret almost certainly. Parish, Sheil a chance from previous exp. Durham and Martin look to be in the future. Jones Is another that has made a step forward.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[faible]

I think anytime a player is on the AA list, they are elite at that time. Some can get lucky to be picked, but by and large it means that player has beaten all others in the league to get that position.

By definition, elite is a 'select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society'. If the AA squad isn't that definition, I don't know what is.

Any player first has to prove themselves on the field, play games over a season, to be considered in the AA list. I think that rules out Kako etc.

The flip side is, who are the elite leading into next season? Merret almost certainly. Parish, Sheil a chance from previous exp. Durham and Martin look to be in the future. Jones Is another that has made a step forward.

Interesting times ahead.

Shiel off half-back intrigues me, if he's fit then his speed and contested work could make him surprisingly good there.

 

[jdstorm]

I think anytime a player is on the AA list, they are elite at that time. Some can get lucky to be picked, but by and large it means that player has beaten all others in the league to get that position.

By definition, elite is a 'select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society'. If the AA squad isn't that definition, I don't know what is.

Any player first has to prove themselves on the field, play games over a season, to be considered in the AA list. I think that rules out Kako etc.

The flip side is, who are the elite leading into next season? Merret almost certainly. Parish, Sheil a chance from previous exp. Durham and Martin look to be in the future. Jones Is another that has made a step forward.

Interesting times ahead.

One of the tricky things is all off Merrett Parish and Sheil have never been able to function in a best 22 together.

Many of their strengths and flaws overlap which leaves a huge opportunity for other teams to exploit those flaws and their strengths don’t tend to compound each other’s effectiveness.

It’s one of the biggest reasons the team has played under its talent level.

Caldwell and Hobbs also contribute to this duplication issue. It’s Rosa’s biggest list management challenge moving forward. How to get fair value from the talent that’s there while ensuring we have a balanced midfield

 

[ant555]

The thread title is 'elite potential on our list'.

There is absolutely ****ing shitloads of it but it's being wasted, misused, undervalued, malnourished and all the other adjectives you would use to describe orphans growing up in a refugee camp.

Every player in the comp enters with potential a lot with elite potential. You have to pick the blokes who have it in them to live up to that potential. To say it is all the fault of the coach or the player development is simply not true. There are many factors including the fact the players themselves are not mentally up for the challenge or are just happy to be AFL players. Yes we dropped the ball in development but that is only part of the picture. Another part is these guys who have elite potential did not actually have the ability to deliver on that potential. Have not been professional enough. Do not want it enough or simply will not do whatever it takes to reach it.

 

[ant555]

One of the tricky things is all off Merrett Parish and Sheil have never been able to function in a best 22 together.

Many of their strengths and flaws overlap which leaves a huge opportunity for other teams to exploit those flaws and their strengths don’t tend to compound each other’s effectiveness.

It’s one of the biggest reasons the team has played under its talent level.

Caldwell and Hobbs also contribute to this duplication issue. It’s Rosa’s biggest list management challenge moving forward. How to get fair value from the talent that’s there while ensuring we have a balanced midfield

Not sure I would say Hobbs is a duplication. He is a much more contested inside midfielder than the others. If Hobbs does not get injured this year we are not having this conversation as he would have played all the games even if it was in a position that was clearly not his one wood. We are a very poor contested ball side around the ground and our stoppage clearance rating shows it.

 

[Darealrath]

Ridley is elite, just can't keep him on the park.

I think he's elite in the champion data sense but not in the Hird, Lloyd, and Fletcher sense of regularly imposing their will on a game such that it so obviously changes the result.

Merrett is the only one there right now. Durham might have it in him. Caddy is the young player who has shown glimpses of this potential and is getting people outside of our fanbase really excited, which is probably the fairest way of assessing it.