Autopsy Essendon v Hawthorn

[grumbleguts]

Have you re-read what you just said. I never ever said any one was guilty or innocent . I said no one had come forward with absolute proof , and no one had one iota of hope of ever retrieving the truth, because the whole thing was botched. Whether there is a truth or a lie it can't be proved. Now the tribunal were about to hammer down on 34 players but found they had no evidence strong enough to do any thing against those 34 people.

In our society under fair rules and the law , that is what happens, when you cannot prove a point. Whether you suspect guilt or not , you cannot condemn and you cannot accuse others of guilt. OR DEFAME!!!!!

If you are so sure why not take the chance and call out any one of those individuals as cheats and demand they be banned because they took performance enhancing drugs , then you Echols can take the chance of being sued and perhaps you can prove the guilt of 1 or 34, I don't know, this is a hypothetical thing now. You won't do it because of what I have just said. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T. But someone might sue you , yep that can happen.

ASADA have a form of investigation where even without pure evidence they proceed with the you are assumed guilty prove your not.

If you take that to umpteenth degree, the accused may as well just be punished. Forget Essendon or football this is just common sense.

You now have just said to me my understanding of the whole case was poor. No my understanding of the case was absolutely on the spot, you see without having a go at you , all along through nearly two years no one would or could come out and tell the truth.
And as you just said it will never be known what was taken or what wasn't . But young fellow , if you can't get evidence because of people protecting themselves or lying or "maybe " telling the truth, with no one believing them, well you lose and ASADA and unprofessional AFL officials couldn't get strong evidence , whether it was true or false.

Now for the life of me what do you have against me and my opinion , I have not bragged about the result here ever , just stated what I always state.
you need proof. If you cannot see or understand that, and you may still be mad you didn't get your "hanging " my smart alec way I know of putting it.

Well I'm at wits end , once again you can't go offending or accusing people of being cheats you might get into trouble , and you are supposed to be an overseer , or one of the overseer moderators, but instead you jump on board against me for nothing but pointing out what I said may happen.

On this site too many of you are invisible and you say what you like , remember , defaming is against the law.

You should think before you throw some nasty comments at me . Or don't moderate , because you don't seem to know the depths of your so called responsibility. Actually I have to say I worry about what age you are, if your over 21 you should know better. For goodness sake mate.

Here you are again doing what I thought you and other moderators were supposed to keep an eye on.

Wow! You really do not understand the situation do you.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

What's with our mids, fwds refusing to quickly put the boot on the ball inside 50? We had plenty of chances to snap goals, but decided to piss fart around and be too unselfish!

Langford, i am looking at you

I felt sorry for the young family in front of me. Have never cursed the Langford name in my entire life until those last 5 minutes. Jesus christ just KICK THE ****ING THING??1?!? @@@

 

[bigton08]

I felt the ground just inside the boundary post game. Felt very hard to me for a grass surface but then I've only been on the MCG a couple times previously many years ago so it's not like I had a way to compare it. The players would be the best judges of that. Any in the AFL said anything about it?

It was one of the commentators on one of the games round one saying the cricket may of had something to do with it I'm not for making excuses but if all the teams that played the mcg lost that gives you an idea maybe the teams were tired from the hard turf.... If so who's looking after that ground it needs to be in tip top condition for the comp

 

[Hotham Hawk]

Disappointed with yesterday's result, but looking forward to the square up in round 13 (hopefully).

 

[Ari]

Any opposition supporter who mentions Cyril without the adjective "overrated" can't be all bad.
So, thanks for the contribution.

And, yes, it was wonderful to see a few sizzling runs and magic from the great one!

That one late where he picked up the ball in a pack and was gone before anywhere knew he had stolen it was sublime.

Every time I see Rioli I cringe that we didn't pick him up. He is a superstar and a fair element of the Hawks success.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

Couple of observations:

1. I think we put too much into the Geelong game. We wanted to make a big statement (and did!) to sit Geelong on their arses once and for all. Every player played at maximum level.

2. It had an effect: we were so flat in this game, it looked like all the emotion had been taken out of our players, and they were doing things from memory. In the first half, it looked like the players minds were elsewhere

3. The fightback was great and, on another day, we would have closed it out late with another couple of goals. It didn't happen, but to get back into the game while running on empty was some effort.

4. And Cyril is back!

I think you are wrong about point 1.

Football media and supporters are so results driven.
Hawks win by 10 goals against Geelong = they played superbly and are peaking too early.
Hawks lose to Essendon = Hawks got ahead of themselves.

I don't think Hawthorn played anywhere near their best in round 1 and I don't think Hawks were overly bad against the scum. We have been patchy no doubt, in the 8 quarters this season we have produced 3 good, 3 bad and 2 average quarters. The reality of the season is that it is pretty long and a team wont be able to produce their maximum for the whole season, but of course after 2012 and 2013 we already know this.

The start of this year has been remarkably similar to 2014 IMO. Round 1 we were poor against Brisbane in tassie but still ended up winning by 40-50+ points. Then in Round 2 we played Essendon and gave up a big lead before bringing them back in. The only difference is the result, but another 2 seconds the results would have been almost identical. Of course it is still mightily important to bank wins early in the year to release the pressure in the lead up to finals.

There is no chance that this club has gotten ahead of itself, they just went back to back. I think that the team tried their guts out after a pretty lethargic start but it took a fair amount of effort to pull out of the early game funk. This game was hardly a loss of Richmond 12 & 13 proportions were the team just looked to have totally given up within the first quarter.

The reality of yesterdays game was that a lot of things didn't go their way when they were collectively trying to lift. A few fumbles, dropped marks, mistakes from inexperienced players lead to some easy goals for the opposition.

The most concerning thing from the game was the ability of Essendon at times to go coast to coast through the middle of the ground with little to no pressure applied. Clarkson will not be happy with this and I am sure he will let the team know.

With regards to individual players Breust has been copping it, kicked 2 goals, sounds like a reasonable return for a small forward whose job is to kick goals. Rough was having a shocker but got himself into the game by taking over centre bounces. In the period where Hawthorn kicked 3 goals in 13 possessions, Roughead was in all those centre bounces and had been instrumental in releasing a player into space. I am pretty sure (without watching a replay) that he had a possession (or at least a clear knock/tap to advantage) in each chain to the goal. So even though he was down he found a way to contribute. What do players like Hawkins and Cloke do when they are having a down day?

 

[JoondalupJ]

Wow! You really do not understand the situation do you.

I think I'm the only one that understands and all you who don't have a clue about what is the basic bottom line hat I'm arguing,well, your the ones with hope that Essendon needed to be guilty Whether they were or not..

I wish for once, one of you could actually answer with a point and make a point instead of this..."You really do not understand the situation do you"...
What do you mean , I understand nothing could conclusively prove 34 footballers guilty of performance enhancement drug taking.

Perhaps Collingwood 's two boys may be in much deeper trouble , there is maybe provable evidence they had enhancement drugs in them , but how it got there is another issue. They are in trouble I'd think, so what didn't I understand about people being called cheats, when they have been found with what evidence was available.... to not be cheats.

What can you tell me about that . If you were joking before, good , I didn't see it , maybe your joke wasn't funny maybe your cheat reference was not meant , how would I know, seems you as does our honourable moderator Echol think that I'm stupid .

Actually I have said absolutely nothing apart from it could never be proved . And it couldn't.

Will you answer with a point of debate or are you to answer me with another put down, like the moderator did. What is wrong with you people.

Do you all want a club to die. I suspect some of you do. I actually think some commentators or posters actually were salivating over this waiting for another club to be annihilated.

As was Carlton, they broke the salary cap and got hit like you hit a flea with a sledge hammer . And look at that powerful club , a shadow of itself.

Yet Sydney like theives in the night rob us and the Crows of topline players. Mind you I think we're better off without Buddy now , but he was a champion. There are double standards every where.

The AFL punishment to Carlton did one big thing , it murdered the fans the supporters (economically ) it punished the thousands of barrackers for that club , when it should have really hammered the culprits.Not Just Jack but all of them , some are still around.

To me Carlton actually were proven to have committed a serious offence.

Whether Essendon did or not is never been my argument , I always said you have to prove it, that's all. ITS ALL I EVER SAID!

Maybe they were guilty , but the investigators had nothing to prove it.

And trying to ban or mark down as cheats 34 people , it was damn near impossible. You must see that.

But still I am a Hawthorn member I love the club you blokes follow them so you can't be all stupid , but neither am I , I still have to worry as to why you don't seem to be able to grasp the simplicity of what I have explained. YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT MAYBE ITS TOO HARD TO UNDERSTAND FOR YOU.
OR I DON'T EXPLAIN IT WELL ENOUGH, I DON'T BLOODY WELL KNOW.

Now Grumble . One of my points was that without proof people can't use defamatory comments and go around calling people cheats. But they have.

It may be a million to one , I haven't been personally involved but I have witnessed a life long friend totally destroyed by a vindictive arse , because of something he put in print about this individual. Nothing to do with football, so maybe I'm a bit sensitive to people who shoot of insults before thinking.

Remember we live in a Yankee world of litigation now. You can get sued for blinking the wrong way.

So if you answer lets talk , not fight. As for echol I don't understand but he had a shot too. He's a moderator , supposedly over seeing the site .

Bad luck I guess . Have a good rest of the day brother.

 

[grumbleguts]

OK first you are using normal law to argue performance enhancing drugs, where the onus of proof is different. But I really don't want to do this here. Suffice it to say you have shown you don't understand the situation and leave it at that.

Let me ask you. Do you think the players (who have admitted they were injected with something were injected with something?

Simple enough question.

 

[BigRough]

Lot of Bombers scarves on the train today

 

[JustKickIt]

<waffle removed>

This is supposed to be about yesterday's game....... can you move this stuff to a more appropriate thread?

 

[Rushed_Behind]

In the the preview thread i said "F*** these C****". Nothing has changed.

Also until they can categorically tell me exactly what was injected to their players, I am of comfortable satisfaction they cheated.

 

[JoondalupJ]

I've read your long-winded ramblings too many times.

Like I have said on the HTB, your understanding of the investigation was poor, and you've just run with "no one knows anything" for 2 years, despite numerous attempts by others to get you to comprehend what you were reading and what was being discussed.

Well you are again a silly man aren't you. Have a deep think mate . What I ramble on about is exactly what was going on. You know about the evidence do you.
Are you some kind of undercover expert .

Tell me my friend without being a rude child, what I have said that was so out of touch. Right from the start anyone with half a brain , knew that this was never going to be straight forward they knew self reporting was the smart way out and they knew how to remove or change , or heaven forbid maybe they had nothing that could be used as evidence.

Really mate, right from the start. The longer it went the more people who really know, knew it was a dud investigation. Dimetriou? maybe you know him
you seem to be involved, go ask him about all this . He was at the forfront, was he not , in what way, we don't know. You might?

But if anybody ever does something nasty to you, remember you need hard evidence to get a win.

They never had it. Now mate if your going to insult and offend get off, go and have a rest . Or describe my stupidity. If you won't or can't don't involve yourself with my comments.

If you can or will I am unbelievably interested in your commentary.

I don't mind long drawn out debates me boy.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

I was away this weekend so haven't had much time to post. Did manage to watch the game however, unfortunately in the company of an Essendon supporter Nothing much to say other than I think this was just the bad game we had to have at some point during the season, we played poorly and it wasn't our day, would have been very lucky if we had got away with the win. Had a bad feeling when we had two important late outs then lost Frawley early on The boys will learn a lot form a game like that though, they will know what they have to do to improve and where other teams can get them. Onwards and upwards

 

[JoondalupJ]

Well you are again a silly man aren't you. Have a deep think mate . What I ramble on about is exactly what was going on. You know about the evidence do you.
Are you some kind of undercover expert .

Tell me my friend without being a rude child, what I have said that was so out of touch. Right from the start anyone with half a brain , knew that this was never going to be straight forward they knew self reporting was the smart way out and they knew how to remove or change , or heaven forbid maybe they had nothing that could be used as evidence.

Really mate, right from the start. The longer it went the more people who really know, knew it was a dud investigation. Dimetriou? maybe you know him
you seem to be involved, go ask him about all this . He was at the forfront, was he not , in what way, we don't know. You might?

But if anybody ever does something nasty to you, remember you need hard evidence to get a win.

They never had it. Now mate if your going to insult and offend get off, go and have a rest . Or describe my stupidity. If you won't or can't don't involve yourself with my comments.

If you can or will I am unbelievably interested in your commentary.

I don't mind long drawn out debates me boy.

I've read your long-winded ramblings too many times.

Like I have said on the HTB, your understanding of the investigation was poor, and you've just run with "no one knows anything" for 2 years, despite numerous attempts by others to get you to comprehend what you were reading and what was being discussed.

PS if you read my ramblings , you learnt nothing , but your own narrow vision .

 

[JoondalupJ]

This is supposed to be about yesterday's game....... can you move this stuff to a more appropriate thread?

Absolutely didn't start it , another fellow did.

 

[Mitchyy]

How was Stratton's kick whilst on the ground to Rioli? Nearly got us a win. Essendon just too good when it matters. Hooker's goal was pretty damn good, probably won't see him do that again.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Also something nasty from yesterdays game . A fan wrote in on facebook that he had been well bashed in the head by an Essendon fan and that his partner was given a black eye by the attackers partner.
These two fine Essendon mongrels need to be caught and charged. The bloke a Hawk and his partner did not retaliate, but he was unsure how to go about getting this fellow and his partner, reported to both clubs and police.

This low Essendon individual had two kids with him , now isn't that nice , so yes to my two adversaries from my own club... there are some low mongrels at Essendon. I hope the rat was a member so they can strip it off him forever..

 

[GOHORCS]

In the the preview thread i said "F*** these C****". Nothing has changed.

Also until they can categorically tell me exactly what was injected to their players, I am of comfortable satisfaction they cheated.

In fact the WADA code actually says if a competitor can't say what they have had then it has to be treated as a S0 substance which basically is unknown and is therefore treated as would a banned substance. I still think there may be some heat coming. The source was something I read in the last day or so, for the life of me I can't remember. If I was dreaming I will be so pissed.

 

[rdhopkins2]

BF viewing on the cards? A show of support at unspecified venue?

 

[Jaeger]

Also something nasty from yesterdays game . A fan wrote in on facebook that he had been well bashed in the head by an Essendon fan and that his partner was given a black eye by the attackers partner.
These two fine Essendon mongrels need to be caught and charged. The bloke a Hawk and his partner did not retaliate, but he was unsure how to go about getting this fellow and his partner, reported to both clubs and police.

This low Essendon individual had two kids with him , now isn't that nice , so yes to my two adversaries from my own club... there are some low mongrels at Essendon. I hope the rat was a member so they can strip it off him forever..

Was on the news. The guy said he stood up to celebrate the Lewis goal that was disallowed, the scum supporter told him to sit down and not long after started throwing "haymakers". Others intervened, then on the way out (as they were being escorted out by security) the scum supporters wife slapped the Hawk's girlfriend in the face and scratched her eye. There's always violence at Essendon games. Their fans are mongrels.

The incident is being investigated by the MCG, police and the drug cheats.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Absolutely didn't start it , another fellow did.

Go on with it in the appropriate thread.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Was on the news. The guy said he stood up to celebrate the Lewis goal that was disallowed, the scum supporter told him to sit down and not long after started throwing "haymakers". Others intervened, then on the way out (as they were being escorted out by security) the scum supporters wife slapped the Hawk's girlfriend in the face and scratched her eye. There's always violence at Essendon games. Their fans are mongrels.

The incident is being investigated by the MCG, police and the drug cheats.

Sheesh all clubs have these people. I just hope they get banned from all games for ten years.

 

[bigton08]

Was on the news. The guy said he stood up to celebrate the Lewis goal that was disallowed, the scum supporter told him to sit down and not long after started throwing "haymakers". Others intervened, then on the way out (as they were being escorted out by security) the scum supporters wife slapped the Hawk's girlfriend in the face and scratched her eye. There's always violence at Essendon games. Their fans are mongrels.

The incident is being investigated by the MCG, police and the drug cheats.

I think mongrels is quite a polite term considering we're talking about the scum supporters I have plenty more adjectives for the cheats

 

[Argy]

In fact the WADA code actually says if a competitor can't say what they have had then it has to be treated as a S0 substance which basically is unknown and is therefore treated as would a banned substance. I still think there may be some heat coming. The source was something I read in the last day or so, for the life of me I can't remember. If I was dreaming I will be so pissed.

There's a discussion of it here in the comments section of the blog...

http://sociallitigator.com/2015/04/03/a-question-of-proof-might-an-asada-appeal-have-legs/

 

[Manila_Hawk]

Having watched the game again, I just can't understand how Essendon always found it so easy to kick to an unmarked player.

It just seemed like they had more players on the ground, or some of ours were missing.

We just lost the plot.