Autopsy Essendon v Hawthorn

[Angus Young]

2. We got complacent at the end when we were 16pts up and looked like the game was won. Credit to Essendon they surged again and we ran out of time to respond.
.

This is a real issue for us. Exactly same thing happened in the prelim against Port.

 

[B0SK]

Have you re-read what you just said. I never ever said any one was guilty or innocent . I said no one had come forward with absolute proof , and no one had one iota of hope of ever retrieving the truth, because the whole thing was botched. Whether there is a truth or a lie it can't be proved. Now the tribunal were about to hammer down on 34 players but found they had no evidence strong enough to do any thing against those 34 people.

In our society under fair rules and the law , that is what happens, when you cannot prove a point. Whether you suspect guilt or not , you cannot condemn and you cannot accuse others of guilt. OR DEFAME!!!!!

If you are so sure why not take the chance and call out any one of those individuals as cheats and demand they be banned because they took performance enhancing drugs , then you Echols can take the chance of being sued and perhaps you can prove the guilt of 1 or 34, I don't know, this is a hypothetical thing now. You won't do it because of what I have just said. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T. But someone might sue you , yep that can happen.

ASADA have a form of investigation where even without pure evidence they proceed with the you are assumed guilty prove your not.

If you take that to umpteenth degree, the accused may as well just be punished. Forget Essendon or football this is just common sense.

You now have just said to me my understanding of the whole case was poor. No my understanding of the case was absolutely on the spot, you see without having a go at you , all along through nearly two years no one would or could come out and tell the truth.
And as you just said it will never be known what was taken or what wasn't . But young fellow , if you can't get evidence because of people protecting themselves or lying or "maybe " telling the truth, with no one believing them, well you lose and ASADA and unprofessional AFL officials couldn't get strong evidence , whether it was true or false.

Now for the life of me what do you have against me and my opinion , I have not bragged about the result here ever , just stated what I always state.
you need proof. If you cannot see or understand that, and you may still be mad you didn't get your "hanging " my smart alec way I know of putting it.

Well I'm at wits end , once again you can't go offending or accusing people of being cheats you might get into trouble , and you are supposed to be an overseer , or one of the overseer moderators, but instead you jump on board against me for nothing but pointing out what I said may happen.

On this site too many of you are invisible and you say what you like , remember , defaming is against the law.

You should think before you throw some nasty comments at me . Or don't moderate , because you don't seem to know the depths of your so called responsibility. Actually I have to say I worry about what age you are, if your over 21 you should know better. For goodness sake mate.

Here you are again doing what I thought you and other moderators were supposed to keep an eye on.

I don't even know where to start with you.

I could feel my brain matter slowly seeping out my ears while reading your post. I won't describe everything wrong with it because I've no urge to write a 10,000 word essay but suffice to say if you think Echols doesn't know what he's on about regarding the Essenjection (DEFAMER!! HEATHEN! BURN THE HERETIC AT THE STAKE!) saga then you honestly have no idea mate. He has consistently been bang on the money throughout this thing.

Take my advice, remove whatever large object is clogging up your escape hatch and remind yourself this is a forum where banter is 100% acceptable.

 

[The BIG X]

Yeah losing from being 10pts up in the last 2 minutes with the ball in your possession in your forward half is unforgivable. For the life of me I can't work out we didn't play another minute of keepings off instead bombing it blindly to unmarked essendon defenders. You'd have thought we were 10 pts down. Hopefully this is the kick backside the team needs to shake any complacency they may have from last week.

Spot on Spursfan - After a dreadful game we overtook them and let them back in with 2 mins to go.
That's the nuts and bolts

 

[Procrastinator35]

Oh well....At least Man Utd won the derby....So the weekend wasn't a total loss!

 

[Hodginator]

Has there seriously been talk of Hird bring a master coach all of a sudden after the win? Thought I heard this somewhere today. If so, who said it and where? Would love to read for a laugh.

 

[driftyhunter]

The arrogance levels here are extraordinary.

Again, your team played well yesterday but Essendon also had some vital players out, Dempsey, Myers and Hocking..

Give the cheating thing a rest, thanks. Even if the cheating issue hypothetically occurred I doubt the players wanted anything to do with it. Let it go, focus on the football, thanks.

Will give the scum credit in that ur cheating flog mob ran hard and structured up professionallly against an under strength Hawks unit with too many kids and a few mainstays away with the fairies.

What I won't put aside is dishing it out big time to your shit mob who brought our game into disrepute, who completely disregarded the competitive spirit of the great game and promoted underhandedness, deceitfullness and kinivery on a mass scale. The fact you plonkers kept Turd and the board on deck with great cheer and applaud is a clear indication of the mindset of Bombers in general and all those connected with the shite black n red will be treated with great and continuous contempt for as long as history has the will to regurgitate the horrendous tale that is the EFC saga.

 

[Davo23]

I think you are wrong about point 1.

Football media and supporters are so results driven.
Hawks win by 10 goals against Geelong = they played superbly and are peaking too early.
Hawks lose to Essendon = Hawks got ahead of themselves.

I don't think Hawthorn played anywhere near their best in round 1 and I don't think Hawks were overly bad against the scum. We have been patchy no doubt, in the 8 quarters this season we have produced 3 good, 3 bad and 2 average quarters. The reality of the season is that it is pretty long and a team wont be able to produce their maximum for the whole season, but of course after 2012 and 2013 we already know this.

The start of this year has been remarkably similar to 2014 IMO. Round 1 we were poor against Brisbane in tassie but still ended up winning by 40-50+ points. Then in Round 2 we played Essendon and gave up a big lead before bringing them back in. The only difference is the result, but another 2 seconds the results would have been almost identical. Of course it is still mightily important to bank wins early in the year to release the pressure in the lead up to finals.

There is no chance that this club has gotten ahead of itself, they just went back to back. I think that the team tried their guts out after a pretty lethargic start but it took a fair amount of effort to pull out of the early game funk. This game was hardly a loss of Richmond 12 & 13 proportions were the team just looked to have totally given up within the first quarter.

The reality of yesterdays game was that a lot of things didn't go their way when they were collectively trying to lift. A few fumbles, dropped marks, mistakes from inexperienced players lead to some easy goals for the opposition.

The most concerning thing from the game was the ability of Essendon at times to go coast to coast through the middle of the ground with little to no pressure applied. Clarkson will not be happy with this and I am sure he will let the team know.

With regards to individual players Breust has been copping it, kicked 2 goals, sounds like a reasonable return for a small forward whose job is to kick goals. Rough was having a shocker but got himself into the game by taking over centre bounces. In the period where Hawthorn kicked 3 goals in 13 possessions, Roughead was in all those centre bounces and had been instrumental in releasing a player into space. I am pretty sure (without watching a replay) that he had a possession (or at least a clear knock/tap to advantage) in each chain to the goal. So even though he was down he found a way to contribute. What do players like Hawkins and Cloke do when they are having a down day?

I don't think it was just that.
In the Geelong game, we saw big hits by Burgoyne and big efforts by Mitchell & Hodgey. I think we were making a statement, PLUS we didn't want to give the Cats a chance to come back.

If it was a another team but Geelong, we may have closed the game up after half time.
I'm not saying it was wrong, I loved the smashing.

But I think it left us short, particularly after a 6 day break

.

 

[driftyhunter]

The arrogance levels here are extraordinary.

Again, your team played well yesterday but Essendon also had some vital players out, Dempsey, Myers and Hocking..

Give the cheating thing a rest, thanks. Even if the cheating issue hypothetically occurred I doubt the players wanted anything to do with it. Let it go, focus on the football, thanks.

Will give the scum credit in that ur cheating flog mob ran hard and structured up professionallly against an under strength Hawks unit with too many kids and a few mainstays away with the fairies.

What I won't put aside is dishing it out big time to your shit mob who brought our game into disrepute, who completely disregarded the competitive spirit of the great game and promoted underhanded ness, deceit fullness and kinivery on a mass scale. The fact you plonkers kept Turd and the board on deck with great cheer and applaud is a clear indication of the mindset of Bombers in general and all those connected with the shite black n red will be treated with great and continuous contempt for as long as history has the will to regurgitate the horrendous tale that is the EFC saga.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Have you re-read what you just said. I never ever said any one was guilty or innocent . I said no one had come forward with absolute proof , and no one had one iota of hope of ever retrieving the truth, because the whole thing was botched. Whether there is a truth or a lie it can't be proved. Now the tribunal were about to hammer down on 34 players but found they had no evidence strong enough to do any thing against those 34 people.

In our society under fair rules and the law , that is what happens, when you cannot prove a point. Whether you suspect guilt or not , you cannot condemn and you cannot accuse others of guilt. OR DEFAME!!!!!

If you are so sure why not take the chance and call out any one of those individuals as cheats and demand they be banned because they took performance enhancing drugs , then you Echols can take the chance of being sued and perhaps you can prove the guilt of 1 or 34, I don't know, this is a hypothetical thing now. You won't do it because of what I have just said. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T. But someone might sue you , yep that can happen.

ASADA have a form of investigation where even without pure evidence they proceed with the you are assumed guilty prove your not.

If you take that to umpteenth degree, the accused may as well just be punished. Forget Essendon or football this is just common sense.

You now have just said to me my understanding of the whole case was poor. No my understanding of the case was absolutely on the spot, you see without having a go at you , all along through nearly two years no one would or could come out and tell the truth.
And as you just said it will never be known what was taken or what wasn't . But young fellow , if you can't get evidence because of people protecting themselves or lying or "maybe " telling the truth, with no one believing them, well you lose and ASADA and unprofessional AFL officials couldn't get strong evidence , whether it was true or false.

Now for the life of me what do you have against me and my opinion , I have not bragged about the result here ever , just stated what I always state.
you need proof. If you cannot see or understand that, and you may still be mad you didn't get your "hanging " my smart alec way I know of putting it.

Well I'm at wits end , once again you can't go offending or accusing people of being cheats you might get into trouble , and you are supposed to be an overseer , or one of the overseer moderators, but instead you jump on board against me for nothing but pointing out what I said may happen.

On this site too many of you are invisible and you say what you like , remember , defaming is against the law.

You should think before you throw some nasty comments at me . Or don't moderate , because you don't seem to know the depths of your so called responsibility. Actually I have to say I worry about what age you are, if your over 21 you should know better. For goodness sake mate.

Here you are again doing what I thought you and other moderators were supposed to keep an eye on.

Regarding your point re getting sued for defamation, wouldn't the person suing need to show some damage caused by the allegation. In this case if echols calls out say Jobe for being a drug cheat, there is already a comment n opinion held that Jobe is a drug cheat, even if the tribunal was not comfortably satisfied. So whilst Echols claim may not be factual, I think it would be impossible to be found defamatory.

My 2c from a non legal background.

 

[Hodginator]

Damning.

 

[JustKickIt]

Has there seriously been talk of Hird bring a master coach all of a sudden after the win? Thought I heard this somewhere today. If so, who said it and where? Would love to read for a laugh.

Would have to be David King if anyone surely. He's generally on the money. eg His "best power forward in the game" kicked two goals two weeks in a row now

 

[BobHawk]

In addition to what looked like half hearted efforts over the course of the entire game the boys seemed to fall into some bad old habits - F50 efficiency problems with what seemed poor set up, poor entry and inability to hold the ball in allowing Essendon some easy turnovers and goals. Poor kicking for goal. Both these problems were evident against Geelong. Also, not being able to hold the Bummers out after getting to 3 goals up with 5 minutes left. This point is significant for a top 4 team and has been very costly in the past.

Positive was that all the newbies played well. O'Rourke probably had a better game than Anderson but Anderson did some really nice things off the ball. Sicily got better as the game went on. Tough game for all three given the way the seniors played. Shields, Anderson and O'Rourke will probably be our midfield for next 10 years or so and Sicily looks very much a confidence player. Not as cocky as Dermott. Maybe more like Arnie Briedis.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Damning.

View attachment 124207

That's going to happen when you blindly bomb it in there not really aiming and you push numbers down there to cover their extra numbers, which leave your D50 open and vulnerable.

 

[grumbleguts]

I don't even know where to start with you.

I could feel my brain matter slowly seeping out my ears while reading your post. I won't describe everything wrong with it because I've no urge to write a 10,000 word essay but suffice to say if you think Echols doesn't know what he's on about regarding the Essenjection (DEFAMER!! HEATHEN! BURN THE HERETIC AT THE STAKE!) saga then you honestly have no idea mate. He has consistently been bang on the money throughout this thing.

Take my advice, remove whatever large object is clogging up your escape hatch and remind yourself this is a forum where banter is 100% acceptable.

Very well said. And he hasn't answered my question yet.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Watching it again, it reminded me of the Richmond-adelaide "worst game ever"
Essendon shut the game down, not really intent on scoring, but rather limiting their opponent

 

[grumbleguts]

Will give the scum credit in that ur cheating flog mob ran hard and structured up professionallly against an under strength Hawks unit with too many kids and a few mainstays away with the fairies.

What I won't put aside is dishing it out big time to your shit mob who brought our game into disrepute, who completely disregarded the competitive spirit of the great game and promoted underhanded ness, deceit fullness and kinivery on a mass scale. The fact you plonkers kept Turd and the board on deck with great cheer and applaud is a clear indication of the mindset of Bombers in general and all those connected with the shite black n red will be treated with great and continuous contempt for as long as history has the will to regurgitate the horrendous tale that is the EFC saga.

Very well said.

Love it. Take my like.

 

[Dave]

Sheesh all clubs have these people. I just hope they get banned from all games for ten years.

Life. There is no excuse for violence at the footy.

 

[Nuggets73]

What's the deal with Frawley?? ... Is it a tear??

 

[MinerBoy]

Has there seriously been talk of Hird bring a master coach all of a sudden after the win? Thought I heard this somewhere today. If so, who said it and where? Would love to read for a laugh.

James Hird. To the mirror.

 

[JustKickIt]

James Hird. To the mirror.

 

[badgrill]

I think you are wrong about point 1.

Football media and supporters are so results driven.
Hawks win by 10 goals against Geelong = they played superbly and are peaking too early.
Hawks lose to Essendon = Hawks got ahead of themselves.

I don't think Hawthorn played anywhere near their best in round 1 and I don't think Hawks were overly bad against the scum. We have been patchy no doubt, in the 8 quarters this season we have produced 3 good, 3 bad and 2 average quarters. The reality of the season is that it is pretty long and a team wont be able to produce their maximum for the whole season, but of course after 2012 and 2013 we already know this.

The start of this year has been remarkably similar to 2014 IMO. Round 1 we were poor against Brisbane in tassie but still ended up winning by 40-50+ points. Then in Round 2 we played Essendon and gave up a big lead before bringing them back in. The only difference is the result, but another 2 seconds the results would have been almost identical. Of course it is still mightily important to bank wins early in the year to release the pressure in the lead up to finals.

There is no chance that this club has gotten ahead of itself, they just went back to back. I think that the team tried their guts out after a pretty lethargic start but it took a fair amount of effort to pull out of the early game funk. This game was hardly a loss of Richmond 12 & 13 proportions were the team just looked to have totally given up within the first quarter.

The reality of yesterdays game was that a lot of things didn't go their way when they were collectively trying to lift. A few fumbles, dropped marks, mistakes from inexperienced players lead to some easy goals for the opposition.

The most concerning thing from the game was the ability of Essendon at times to go coast to coast through the middle of the ground with little to no pressure applied. Clarkson will not be happy with this and I am sure he will let the team know.

With regards to individual players Breust has been copping it, kicked 2 goals, sounds like a reasonable return for a small forward whose job is to kick goals. Rough was having a shocker but got himself into the game by taking over centre bounces. In the period where Hawthorn kicked 3 goals in 13 possessions, Roughead was in all those centre bounces and had been instrumental in releasing a player into space. I am pretty sure (without watching a replay) that he had a possession (or at least a clear knock/tap to advantage) in each chain to the goal. So even though he was down he found a way to contribute. What do players like Hawkins and Cloke do when they are having a down day?

Sulk

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[cryptor]

Damning.

View attachment 124207

In 2014 I believe over 50% of our inside 50's resulted in some sort of score.

Only 25% there. And our inaccuracy the week before against Geelong still irks me. Far from the "perfect game" I've seen it described as.

We've been VERY average by our standards so far this year.

 

[cryptor]

Anything said about the extent of Frawley's pec injury?
.. if it's a serious tear, won't be much different than Gibbo .. 10 - 12 weeks

Gibbo tore his off the bone. Considerabley worse than a tear in the middle of the muscle or even on the edge. Only the scans and ultimately time will be able to determine how long he misses.

 

[MadDawg]

Watching it again, it reminded me of the Richmond-adelaide "worst game ever"
Essendon shut the game down, not really intent on scoring, but rather limiting their opponent

I agree, Essendon play a disgusting brand of football with their low scoring, high possession borefests.

It is based around not losing rather than trying to win.

Sometimes they get lucky and don't lose.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

In fact the WADA code actually says if a competitor can't say what they have had then it has to be treated as a S0 substance which basically is unknown and is therefore treated as would a banned substance. I still think there may be some heat coming. The source was something I read in the last day or so, for the life of me I can't remember. If I was dreaming I will be so pissed.

The WADA code doesn't say that at all, or anything like it. Not even close. Why would you make something like that up?