F1 F1 2024 thread

[Jatz]

I think the argument is valid for either Driver. I think Daniel, Yuki or Liam in that car will be an improvement on Perez.

I really don't know that's true but I think we'll find out soon enough.

 

[happy_eagle]

I really don't know that's true but I think we'll find out soon enough.

All 3 would be an improvement on current Perez (i.e would be able to get out of Q1, and regularly into Q3).

Right now the scenarios appear to be
1. Keep Perez, ditch Ricciardo, put Lawson in the RB
2. Ditch Perez, Promote Ricciardo to the main seat, Put Lawson in the RB.
3. Ditch Perez, Promote Lawson to the main seat, keep Ricciardo in the RB.

3 doesn't make as much sense given Helmuts comments about the RB needing to be a junior team. If Ricciardo is not in frame for a main seat, he shouldn't be in the RB.

Option 2 appears more logical, even though Daniel hasn't set the world on fire in the RB. 10 races for him to show he can match Perez in the main car or he's done for good. Lawson gets an extended run in F1 for the experience, and the chance to takeover the main seat in 2025.

 

[Vader]

I agree with Horner but putting Ricciardo in that car is no guarantee to improve results. I know Dan is the big fav around here but I've seen nothing to suggest he'll do any better in that car. Might get the odd result but I still see him running 8th or worse.

Truthfully if I was Red Bull, I'd be putting Lawson straight in. Give him half a season free run at it. Can't do worse than Checo anyway. Will give them their best indication on if he can step up or not.

I don't think Dan will automatically start winning F1 races... but he will almost certainly stop Checo's run of Q1 failures.

There's no way they're putting Lawson in the RBR car. Dan to RBR, Lawson to VCARB, Checo to Mexico, is the obvious move - at least until the end of 2024.

 

[Vader]

This is my point though. There's no guarantee Daniel does that for you.

Could give him a token seat for the end of the season but they won't want him in the car next season. To me it makes far more sense to just give it to Lawson. Give him a season and a half and you'll know whether he's worth keeping or not.

On a side note, I think it's ridiculous one team has a feeder team in this category.

You could argue that Williams is a feeder team for Mercedes as well, even if there's no formal owner-type relationship.

 

[MKMatty]

Ocon to Haas on multi-year deal has just been announced.

 

[jabba5114]

Ocon to Haas on multi-year deal has just been announced.

Poor bearman

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[99 Problems]

This is my point though. There's no guarantee Daniel does that for you.

Could give him a token seat for the end of the season but they won't want him in the car next season. To me it makes far more sense to just give it to Lawson. Give him a season and a half and you'll know whether he's worth keeping or not.

On a side note, I think it's ridiculous one team has a feeder team in this category.

Putting Lawson in the main seat has the most potential upside, but it’s a huge risk if it goes wrong. Put him in the racing bull and he can struggle for the rest of the season and it won’t put much pressure on him going into next year. Put him in the main seat though and if he doesn’t hit the ground running he starts next season under huge pressure. You don’t get 18 months to prove yourself in a race winning car so they’d be punting him this time next year.

I’d stick with Perez. If not go with Ric with him aware from the start it’s only to end the season and then Lawson can find his feet in the second car. They could try Yuki but it appears they don’t want him long term, so if he did slightly above expectations it would make things messy.

And yeah agree its silly they get benefits of a feeder team like this, especially when you’ve got other teams trying to get into the sport.

 

[Duck Farmer]

Right now the scenarios appear to be
1. Keep Perez, ditch Ricciardo, put Lawson in the RB
2. Ditch Perez, Promote Ricciardo to the main seat, Put Lawson in the RB.
3. Ditch Perez, Promote Lawson to the main seat, keep Ricciardo in the RB.

I think it'll be 1.

 

[jabba5114]

Alpine replacing Bruno famin already. Likely stepping down after Belgian grand prix

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[dazbroncos]

Alpine replacing Bruno famin already. Likely stepping down after Belgian grand prix

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if you listen carefully that s****** you hear is Otmar..... not so easy is it Bruno lol

And who knows what Helmut is gonna pull.

I know DR was 12th last race but VCARB did some lap time analysis and DR was well infront of YT when they extrapolated his theoretical times sans getting DRS trained and repeating his lap times on the Mediums.

If DR can have a decent day out in SPA... he's in with a chance of hanging around.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Poor bearman

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Bearman does enough dangerous driving of his own. Still amazed he got a gig based on vibes rather than actual results.

 

[happy_eagle]

if you listen carefully that s****** you hear is Otmar..... not so easy is it Bruno lol

And who knows what Helmut is gonna pull.

I know DR was 12th last race but VCARB did some lap time analysis and DR was well infront of YT when they extrapolated his theoretical times sans getting DRS trained and repeating his lap times on the Mediums.

If DR can have a decent day out in SPA... he's in with a chance of hanging around.

I had thought for a while that RB had already made their mind up with who they wanted in that seat, and that recent track performance weren't going to account for much.

But watching how angry Ricciardo was at the bad strategy in Hungary made me think otherwise. Could be a crucial race.

 

[Jatz]

I think there's some rose coloured glasses in here in relation to Dan.

That Red Bull is not a great car anymore. We've seen how Dan performs in cars that aren't great (Alpine, McLaren etc).

The only thing I'd absolutely be prepared to admit is he'll damage the car a whole lot less than Sergio. For that reason alone it's probably worth it.

 

[Barrybran]

I think there's some rose coloured glasses in here in relation to Dan.

That Red Bull is not a great car anymore. We've seen how Dan performs in cars that aren't great (Alpine, McLaren etc).

The only thing I'd absolutely be prepared to admit is he'll damage the car a whole lot less than Sergio. For that reason alone it's probably worth it.

It's not as good but all he has to do is keep it on the track and he scores points. I don't know what to think as far as switching drivers goes but Perez is not helping Red Bull at the moment and I think Ricciardo is better placed to help preserve the lead over McLaren. It was also free up a seat to get Lawson in.

I guess the question for Red Bull comes down to economics as Perez brings more money to the team than Ricciardo.

 

[Not Important]

Ocon to Haas on multi-year deal has just been announced.

yep! the bloke is not a team player though. so not sure it's a plus for haas.

 

[jabba5114]

Bearman does enough dangerous driving of his own. Still amazed he got a gig based on vibes rather than actual results.

Yeah I've watched with my jaw dropped watching him in f2 at times. Yet a pourchaire can't get a sniff

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[happy_eagle]

 

[Duck Farmer]

lol - Just replace Netherlands with Max Verstappen.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Germany would've been among the bottom 30 years ago.

 

[Neale4brownlow]

I think there's some rose coloured glasses in here in relation to Dan.

That Red Bull is not a great car anymore. We've seen how Dan performs in cars that aren't great (Alpine, McLaren etc).

The only thing I'd absolutely be prepared to admit is he'll damage the car a whole lot less than Sergio. For that reason alone it's probably worth it.

The car didnt get worse though. just other cars improved around them.

 

[Neale4brownlow]

All 3 would be an improvement on current Perez (i.e would be able to get out of Q1, and regularly into Q3).

Right now the scenarios appear to be
1. Keep Perez, ditch Ricciardo, put Lawson in the RB
2. Ditch Perez, Promote Ricciardo to the main seat, Put Lawson in the RB.
3. Ditch Perez, Promote Lawson to the main seat, keep Ricciardo in the RB.

3 doesn't make as much sense given Helmuts comments about the RB needing to be a junior team. If Ricciardo is not in frame for a main seat, he shouldn't be in the RB.

Option 2 appears more logical, even though Daniel hasn't set the world on fire in the RB. 10 races for him to show he can match Perez in the main car or he's done for good. Lawson gets an extended run in F1 for the experience, and the chance to takeover the main seat in 2025.

Agree.

If they were to drop Perez it's because they think the constructors is at risk (which it really is).

Lawson is not the answer to that. They won't put a rookie into that seat given the scenario.

Its Ric or Perez for mine. And I think that's what they'll be discussing today.

The vibe and performance of Red Bull feels like it's in a tailspin at the moment. I think they'll make the change. Really the only negative will be sponsers or cash that Perez brings to the team. As long as that's not critical to them then I think he's out.

I reckon it's 55/45 in favour of Ric at the moment to finish the season in the main seat.
Lawson to finish the season in the junior team and 2025 onwards until Ric makes way (or max bails out).

 

[ReidBetweenTheLines]

I don’t see how Perez holds his seat. Red Bull obviously were quick at Spa given how Max got pole and Perez was 3rd. But after starting 2nd on the grid, Perez went backwards from T1 until the end. At the very least he should podium, not slip back to 8th (7th after Russell DQ).

His 2 year contract signing surely has a get out clause for Red Bull and there’s no way he’s reached expectations since that moment.

Since Perez signed a contract extension on June 5th, there’s been 6 races. Red Bull has scored 132 points. McLaren have scored 176 point's.

Of the 132 Red Bull points, Perez contributed 24…

Red Bull only lead the constructors championship by 40 pts. There’s 10 races left. Perez is gone. Just a matter of who takes his seat.

 

[Vader]

I don’t see how Perez holds his seat. Red Bull obviously were quick at Spa given how Max got pole and Perez was 3rd. But after starting 2nd on the grid, Perez went backwards from T1 until the end. At the very least he should podium, not slip back to 8th (7th after Russell DQ).

They were fast in the wet (qualifying), not so much in the dry (race).

His 2 year contract signing surely has a get out clause for Red Bull and there’s no way he’s reached expectations since that moment.

It has, and they've been well publicised. He hasn't gone close to meeting the required standards, which is why this discussion has so many legs.

Since Perez signed a contract extension on June 5th, there’s been 6 races. Red Bull has scored 132 points. McLaren have scored 176 point's.

Of the 132 Red Bull points, Perez contributed 24…

Red Bull only lead the constructors championship by 40 pts. There’s 10 races left. Perez is gone. Just a matter of who takes his seat.

Yep... and both Marko & Horner are reading from the same page here.

Last week Horner said that they "can't run on one leg". Marko said that Perez had "completely collapsed" after last night's race. When both of the bosses are saying he's not performing, the chances of him surviving have to be small.

 

[Jatz]

I don't think it'll matter who they put in the seat, I still think they'll mostly run 8th for the rest of the season.

 

[Jatz]

McLaren are now favourites to win the Constructors Championship fwiw.