Other Fact or Fiction

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I wished it were fiction.... They have been a great franchise despite not having THE success.... Bit crowded in NY though... Wish they didn't, but I can see them being set up in Toronto soon enough (IF given decent enough reception by the locals)...

Note - I am guessing you are primarily talking about the SB Era with the QBs? Just wondering is all

FOF
The 72 Fins don't rank in the top 5 teams in NFL history, despite their record...
 
Zarko said:
I wished it were fiction.... They have been a great franchise despite not having THE success.... Bit crowded in NY though... Wish they didn't, but I can see them being set up in Toronto soon enough (IF given decent enough reception by the locals)...

Note - I am guessing you are primarily talking about the SB Era with the QBs? Just wondering is all

FOF
The 72 Fins don't rank in the top 5 teams in NFL history, despite their record...
Click to expand...

1. As silly as this may seem, I think a name like Buffalo Bills should never be lost. It's such a great name. Toronto Bills...er, no. Toronto Whatevers yeah but still.

2. Modern era as in around the 80s on. The SB era itself, well, now it's getting more convoluted by so many other great QBs. But my stats will find a way to level the field completely and incorporate even real old QBs like Luckman. I already know what i want to do with the stats system, it's just finding the time to start it.

3. It's hard to say a 16-0 team is not top 5, but I wouldn't put them top 5. Or maybe they fall near top 5. But there have been far more dominant teams who lost a game or two or three. Losing games isn't necessarily the thing, it's the level of dominance in everything, harder divisions factored in, level of player talent (HOFers, ProBowlers, etc).

Please name YOUR top 5 btw.

FOF: Which team is the next dynasty team? And why?
 
1 - Yes the Buffalo Bills is a great f*cking name :D

See I sort of want to add current players but then I don't and I want to go back for but then it can't really compare lol...

As long as they have played in the SB era but then counting previous years... In no order...

Unitas
Marino
Montana
Starr
Favre... MAYBE... I can't think of a definitive fifth QB.. Too many shady areas...
(Hey, I'm an old school sorta guy :p)

Sid and Baugh could make it but I admit I don't know much other than most rate them very highly...

I didn't want to base some purely on Championships (Because of Marino's lack there of), but its hard to go past what some have done in their respective championships (Montana)

Concerning Marino though, he did have opportunities to win... He had a very good O Line and for his early years had a great established D AND having possibly the greatest coach of all time... He just didn't take em.

Favre is pure volume so while he has been great he is only 5 for me... And he did have a string of horrible years, 02 to 06... Elway I just never liked really so its a bit of personal bias... Top 10 QB as well, but not top 5...

Current players like Manning and Brady can EASILY be up there by the end of their careers but I don't want to add them purely because they haven't finished yet... If they both finished tomorrow, Manning would be barely pushing for top 10 despite how well he has played while Brady could be in there, depends on what I feel like during the day... BUT in my official one, by the end of the careers of our current crop, I will probably have pushed either Brady or Manning in or both

Noting that these oldies played in the Dead Ball era... Defence dominated, and won games... I wouldn't expect the likes of Brady or Manning to have their current stats in those days (Steel Curtain, Purple People Eaters)

Thats the thing though... You can't really compare people from different eras and 5 is a pretty arbitrary number... You could go to top 30 and still have too many good-great QBs to count

I 'prefer' making up my mind of who was best in what era...
40s - Baugh
50s - Unitas
60s - Starr (I know its sorta cheating because Unitas and Starr are usually classed in the same era :))
70s - ?
80s - ? (Marino/Montana)
90s - ? (Some will say Favre, some say Elway)
00s - Who will take the cake? Brady or Manning?

BUT I can just as easily change my mind about the topic tomorrow...

Sorry I rambled a bit ;)
 

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FOF: Which team is the next dynasty team? And why?
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Tell ay the truth, too hard to see any future dynasty without seeing an early feature... The only one I can fathom is the Cowboys with Romo featuring, despite the fact that I think he has been talking up a bit.... Eli? No f*cking way... Young? Nope..... Of course, I wipe away these teams based on NOW so we don't know what will change obviously...

BUT... Just to make gg happy... The Raiders ;)

FOF
1st turnover decides the SB winner this year...
 
zarko my man, dont you worry about gg finding a way to compare them!
i have the master plan!
here, i'll give you a snippet of just one way it can be achieved...

a qbs season stats vs the rest of the leagues stats that year.
how good was he in comparison to the rest of the league?
obviously other factors will come into play.
but in that way, then, it's not so much then HOW MANY on their own, like 50 tds in 2007, but in the 30's 24 was a big deal.
no, more like 50 vs the overall qb output. and 24 vs the overall output that year.
because everything is relative!
and this factors in things like rule changes because 50 today is far easier than 30 decades ago.

but i want to make an all-time qb comparison, probably try to find the top 20 or so, and then just include them in the final stat sheet.
 
Zarko said:
Tell ay the truth, too hard to see any future dynasty without seeing an early feature... The only one I can fathom is the Cowboys with Romo featuring, despite the fact that I think he has been talking up a bit.... Eli? No f*cking way... Young? Nope..... Of course, I wipe away these teams based on NOW so we don't know what will change obviously...

BUT... Just to make gg happy... The Raiders ;)

FOF
1st turnover decides the SB winner this year...
Click to expand...

i can see afc west having dynasty....chargers, raiders (theres potential for it there and culture to get it back). but there are other teams like saints, vikings, eagles, dolphins with parcells (maybe), afc south too, any of the teams, and pittsburgh will always remain strong like cowboys.

as for FOF....i dont think first turnover will at all. I can see this SB going to the Pats by 3 points (if they win, like they always do in the SB by 3), or Giants have a fairly interesting win like by 10. but there will be turnovers galore in the SB, brady has been coughing them up, eli could, or just fumbles, ive seen so many ints that became fumble turnovers because the guy tried to steal another 5 yards. so maybe it's the LAST turnover that will decide the game!

FOF: If Eli wins the SB, how good his chances to win another before Peyton does again? And if he does win 2 and peyton only 1, how will history look at them?
 
gg said:
zarko my man, dont you worry about gg finding a way to compare them!
i have the master plan!
here, i'll give you a snippet of just one way it can be achieved...

a qbs season stats vs the rest of the leagues stats that year.
how good was he in comparison to the rest of the league?
obviously other factors will come into play.
but in that way, then, it's not so much then HOW MANY on their own, like 50 tds in 2007, but in the 30's 24 was a big deal.
no, more like 50 vs the overall qb output. and 24 vs the overall output that year.
because everything is relative!
and this factors in things like rule changes because 50 today is far easier than 30 decades ago.

but i want to make an all-time qb comparison, probably try to find the top 20 or so, and then just include them in the final stat sheet.
Click to expand...
Hmmm exactly my thinking lol... Most modern day QB couldn't do what they do now back in the old days... Too many rules :p

Anyway... You have to look at efficiency rather than volume... You can't really compare a Brady season to a Unitas season... Unitas, 32 TDs to 14 INT in 12 games.. Setting a new record in an era when a year of 20 TDs would be considered great...

You also have to look at impact on franchise (ie Brady's on the hapless Pats) and despite the fact that it SHOULDN'T detract from the QBs greatest, the no. of HOF and probowlers around them... Number of years they lead to QB rating and comparison to league (Which I don't really like but hey it works)

example... Baugh had a passer rating of 109 in 45 when the league average was 47... FU*KING amazing... Plus a deadly DB ;) The Pigskin Messiah was something special :)

Starr had 5 consecutive years of being the most prolific QB based on rating... and of course ALL OF THOSE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Anyway, back on track...

FOF - If Eli DOES win, he has a greater chance than Peyton at nabbing his second... Fact... Once plays in the AFC, one plays in the NFC... AFC has the best three teams in football and have to get past each other to get the championships... While the gap between the AFC and NFC isnt HUGE the gaps between the best surely are... Eli will have a better chance simply because he has a better chance of getting there again, especially with his bro getting older and older....

FOF
The HOF committee is unbelievable bias towards the offensive and needs a reformat to make it even for all players attempting to get into Canton... (Was checking out the site the other day... Was disgusted not to see some D names.... More Steeler players from the offence of the 70s Era when the D is what carried the team lol)
 
Zarko...

all those stat aspects to include are right on the money. i'll be taking those kinds of angles you mentioned.

Eli i agree, for the same reasons you gave. And Peyton does choke a bit.

as for your FOF...imo the whole HOF is absurd how so many players are left out, how they only vote in a few every year, always leaving out more each time. if it was me, id take it away from the journalists voting, and just induct one year every single player that deserves to be there...punters, DL, OL, you name it. And it's always skewed unfortunately towards the sexy offensive players...same with mvp votes. I know the qb is the hardest position, but c'mon. Eg, Manning winning MVP of the SB when Rhodes deserved it. That was some BS decision as a way of saying "we gave brady 2 we can't let manning not have 1 he may never return to the sb, so we should give him one just because he's comparably as good as brady. BS.
 
lol Fiction... No one can match Couch's effort :p

BUT for the sake of it... I am quietly confident of Ryan... Confident because he does have the ability, quiet because I will most likely prove a fool if I announce he will be a gun... I don't think he will ever become that good and will take a while to develop. Of course he is most likely going to become a Falcon so thats his career over :D... Truthfully, I don't see too many QB standouts from this draft... If any, I would pin my hopes on Flacco...Simply because his name is great for possible nicknames :D

FOF
Ive got two for ya

1. The Super Bowl hype isn't as bad as some media outlets complaining about the Super Bowl hype.

2. Maroney is a top 10 RB in the league...
 
Zarko said:
lol Fiction... No one can match Couch's effort :p

BUT for the sake of it... I am quietly confident of Ryan... Confident because he does have the ability, quiet because I will most likely prove a fool if I announce he will be a gun... I don't think he will ever become that good and will take a while to develop. Of course he is most likely going to become a Falcon so thats his career over :D... Truthfully, I don't see too many QB standouts from this draft... If any, I would pin my hopes on Flacco...Simply because his name is great for possible nicknames :D

FOF
Ive got two for ya

1. The Super Bowl hype isn't as bad as some media outlets complaining about the Super Bowl hype.

2. Maroney is a top 10 RB in the league...
Click to expand...

- I think Flacco, Henne and Ainge will amount to something.

1. The media hype is by far more over-hyped than the SB hype this year especially. In fact, it's been kinda toned down almost by the sheer weight of coaching hires and fires and bizarro goings on everywhere.

2. Maroney is a top 10 rb next year, especially with NE's passing game probably going downhill with moss gone, and some others, and the coaching staff disbanded again. So more reliance on Maroney, who imo is a fantastic RB.
 

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gg said:
FOF: Eli continues his flawless playoff performances, doesnt get overawed by the occasion? I wonder because he seems to flounder after a run of good games, wont say choke yet.

FOF: Alex Smith gets traded off by Nolan, especially with Martz wanting his own input on who his QB will be?
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Fact: Fiction Eli has to force the ball down the field with pressure from the front 4 and will throw a couple of picks

Fiction: Alex Smith will blossum under Martz and the niners will push for a playoff spot.

FOF: Tom Brady throws the ball 40+ times in the superbowl

FOF: Darren McFadden wins ROY and finishes top 5 in the NFL in rushing yards
 
Kirk Hinrich #12 said:
FOF: Tom Brady throws the ball 40+ times in the superbowl

FOF: Darren McFadden wins ROY and finishes top 5 in the NFL in rushing yards
Click to expand...

Fact: Every chance the G-Men pass rush will want to hurry Brady and that means a quick dump off to Moroney or Faulk. I'd be quite happy ;) with Moroney getting just a couple of those 40 pass attempts. :thumbsu:

I'll pass on the next FOF.. the hype isn't worth passing comment on.

FOF.. The PI calls will eventually ruin the result in SB XLII considering Randy Moss gets away with minor contact (still PI by rule;)) but the G-Men will be slugged for lesser contact.
 
Haha always the possiblity... But its hard to shout injustive when all teams are subject to the shit interpretation of the PI rule... Namely, some may say the Pat are 'lucky' in that sense, but I see it as the fact that everyone is watching them and everything that happends on the field is magnified... But thats me...

FOF
The Giants D line is better than the pats O Line
(Both best at what they do... Defensively, Giants let 3.83 yprush (9th), A negative pass play % of 11.81 (As in 11.81% of the opponents play ended in a sack or Int)(2nd) and their opponents 3rd down success rate was at 34.6% (5th) best overall for the D... Only team to rank top 10 in all three catagories))

(NE tied for first with their O Line successrate... They had 4.1 yprush (Thanks to blocking - 14th overall) A negative pass play % of 4.86 (First obviously with almost no INT and few sacks) and 2nd on success on third downs (48.7%)(2nd))

Average place for the Giants was 5 and a third (On listing lol)
Average place for the Pats was 5 and two thirds

I know its hard to compare but which one has lead to more success for their individual teams? Pats O Line more important than the Giants D Line?
 
Zarko said:
FOF
The Giants D line is better than the pats O Line
(Both best at what they do... Defensively, Giants let 3.83 yprush (9th), A negative pass play % of 11.81 (As in 11.81% of the opponents play ended in a sack or Int)(2nd) and their opponents 3rd down success rate was at 34.6% (5th) best overall for the D... Only team to rank top 10 in all three catagories))

(NE tied for first with their O Line successrate... They had 4.1 yprush (Thanks to blocking - 14th overall) A negative pass play % of 4.86 (First obviously with almost no INT and few sacks) and 2nd on success on third downs (48.7%)(2nd))

Average place for the Giants was 5 and a third (On listing lol)
Average place for the Pats was 5 and two thirds

I know its hard to compare but which one has lead to more success for their individual teams? Pats O Line more important than the Giants D Line?
Click to expand...

Ficton. (Actually I'm confused 'cause you've made two counter statements here Zark!) In any case, all the Pats success starts with their offensive line. The Giants have won games this year when their defensive line has been held in check. If the Pats oline controls the Giants dline and gives time for Brady to throw the ball then they win.

Fact or Ficton?

With a SB Ring, Randy Moss returns to his bad old habits in 2008.

Personally, I think a bad offensive line will always be exposed more often in a game then a bad defensive line.
 
I meant to add 'or' before the last sentence but you know what I meant... The second was a question, the first was a statement...

Actually the second sentence was different to the first because an O Line performing well doesn't lead to success...

Fiction.. Moss is happy as long as he has a good QB...

FOF... Will post shortly unless someone else wanta to post another lol
 
Fiction... But there is little doubt it will go to an offensive player unless someone on D gets 2 INT, a FF and at least 6 tackles ;)

FOF
Well, this is really a question..
WTF does the NFL hope to achieve with out of US games? It ****s up regular seasons all for dollars... Does the NFL really WANT to open up another league in Europe in 10-20 years?
 
Zarko said:
Fiction... But there is little doubt it will go to an offensive player unless someone on D gets 2 INT, a FF and at least 6 tackles ;)

FOF
Well, this is really a question..
WTF does the NFL hope to achieve with out of US games? It ****s up regular seasons all for dollars... Does the NFL really WANT to open up another league in Europe in 10-20 years?
Click to expand...

Answer: Goddell wants to leave his mark on the game and thinks he can do this by global expansion. I wouldn't think the NFL needs money (think sports like AFL where games get sold for financial purposes) nor the exposure (pay TV fixed that) so I can not understand the reasoning.

P.S. I think NFLE is dead for good.

Fact or Ficton: The HOF favours offensive players over defensive players in finalist ballots.
 
lol already asked on the last page but gg didn't really answer it... It is a totally bias and bastardised system... Want proof?

Steelers legendary dynasty of the 70s...

Now anyone how saw them would say that their DEFENCE won them those championships... BUT the offensive players in Canton outnumber the defensive players ??? WTF?

Dead ball era when DEFENCE DOMINATED (Roughly 50-75) There are 53 O HOF's to 35 D HOF's... Almost at a 2-1 ratio atm (I think its at for every one D player there are 1.8 O players...

Its bullshite

FOF
'Mailing it in' late in the season is more detrimental to a team than being forced to play outthe regular season...
 
Zarko said:
lol already asked on the last page but gg didn't really answer it... It is a totally bias and bastardised system... Want proof?

Steelers legendary dynasty of the 70s...

Now anyone how saw them would say that their DEFENCE won them those championships... BUT the offensive players in Canton outnumber the defensive players ??? WTF?

Its bullshite

FOF
'Mailing it in' late in the season is more detrimental to a team than being forced to play outthe regular season...
Click to expand...

Steel Curtain defense was damn good, but don't underestimate one of the more potent offenses in history- despite gg's attempts at rating QBs, you can't go past terry Bradshaw as one of the truly great leaders and passers of the SB era....and the combo of Lynn Swan and John Stallworth ranks up there as a fantastic pair of wide outs that could stretch the field- still remember Swan's catch against Dallas in SB X where he went above the DB and tipped the ball back over his head, making the catch falling away- awesome cover shot for SI.....

And let's look at the running backs- Franco and Rocky were terrific at what they did- Franco chewing up yards and wearing down the defense, Rocky with a burst and the ability to catch the ball coming out of the backfield.

The O-Line was very good, but not that well known- they did the job of opening holes for the runners and protecting Bradshaw....

Five guys from offence in the Hall- Bradshaw, swan, Stallworth, harris and webster- can't argue with any of them, and can't see anyone else getting in. On D, you've got Lambert, Greene, Ham and Blount.....one could make a case for Greenwood, Shell or Wagner, I think- but maybe for one of them- can't see all three getting there.

Seems a pretty fair representation.....
 
Bradshaw was actually the greatest reason why Favre had a maybe next to his name for me...

But even in the era of the PPE, Steel Curtain, Cowboys D (Forgot their nickname lol) There are still too many Defenders who deserve to be in there that arent...

BUT Greenwood definitely deserves to be in there.... Led the Steel Curtain in sacks 6 years, 6 probowls, 6 all pro, All Decade team. Not the best person on the D but a constant source of quality defending that certainly deserves to be in Canton...

Amazing when other D players like Dent, Brazile and D Thomas aren't in Canton...

Only 2 DBs since 71 have gotten into Canton.

Then it takes 3 times as long for defensive players to get into Canton

It just doesn't make sense....

Personally, its hard to say that there are more offensive players from the Steel Curtain era that deserve to be in there than defensive players... Thats me though... 5-5 more acceptable but 5-4 is just illogical IMHO

Any possible way you can admit that being surrounded but such greatness has made Bradshaw look better? Is it true? Anyone else agree? He was pressured more by aggressive defenders though... Different days back then ;) He has more y/a than the likes of Elway, has good rushing yards per carry...

MY FOF above uselion's post if interested...
 
Zarko said:
Only 2 DBs since 71 have gotten into Canton.

Then it takes 3 times as long for defensive players to get into Canton

It just doesn't make sense....
Click to expand...

Well Zarko, won't have to wait long ...2009 is the next DB to get to Canton..;)

and...gg, not as a Raider either... no no no.. **waves index finger** :p
 

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