Coach Fages and the coaching group

[Squizz89]

Can't understand why so many posters believe we are so lacking in coaching personell...in 2018 we go from 15th to 2nd, to 2nd again, to 4th, to 6th & 2nd again and playing in the GF and losing by a kick. Geelong took 11 years playing finals footy until they won last year. What team performs like that with a lack of coaching?
I often read posts like this and sing the tune...SHORT MEMORY!!!

So excited & grateful for what our club will bring us in 2024.

But, then again, I celebrate coming 2nd.

I never said we were “lacking” in coaching personnel. My personal opinion was losing 2 guys from that panel gave us an opportunity to bring in an outside voice with a fresh set of eyes. We tried with Selwood, he didn’t wanna leave, so be it and we move on.

I value your contributions highly to this board mate and respect your inside knowledge, but just because people don’t bring out the Pom Poms for every decision the club makes, doesn’t make their opinion wrong. That’s what we’re all here for, we all want to be the best and I assume the club feels the same way and makes their decisions accordingly, which gives us all something to talk about & debate.

 

[Dalions]

Personally I think Dale Morris will be an excellent appointment to the backline.
And if DD is basically Fages right hand man on game day anyway, which it does appear, then I can’t see why we need to make another appointment.
Possibly Mark Stone was Surplus to needs.

 

[Nunez]

It isn't like only Selwood and Morris applied for this job. There were plenty of candidates. Morris is very deserving of the promotion and will bring a fresh voice in a more senior role.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I never said we were “lacking” in coaching personnel. My personal opinion was losing 2 guys from that panel gave us an opportunity to bring in an outside voice with a fresh set of eyes. We tried with Selwood, he didn’t wanna leave, so be it and we move on.

I value your contributions highly to this board mate and respect your inside knowledge, but just because people don’t bring out the Pom Poms for every decision the club makes, doesn’t make their opinion wrong. That’s what we’re all here for, we all want to be the best and I assume the club feels the same way and makes their decisions accordingly, which gives us all something to talk about & debate.

I never said you said that either so calm down a bit mate.

In my eyes, we are doing really well with the great people we have right now so...why change it up and possibly down grade? I mean, resume's of some coach's look fantastic but there are no guarantee's on who you bring in as "a fresh set of eyes" and, as much as you & some assume, would they value add???.... who knows for sure until they are in?

I'm sure I can express an opinion just as much as you can. If I dis agree with you on a particular post, I will sometimes post back a reply doing just that with a reason...as I have done this morning. I love the debate and respect the difference's of opinions. Dont get uptight if mine is different to yours or expressed in a way you don't agree with. Keep on posting. Go Lions.

 

[irel]

The reality for us supporters is that we haven't a clue who adds value and who is ordinary at their job. Be it the football department level or administrative level. We get small snippets of information that sometimes escapes into the media, or some random poster says "Stone is a great coach" and we all believe it, when the reality could be quite the opposite.

I see the argument used that we have a smaller football department then other AFL teams, so that makes us inferior (ignoring the historical evidence) so, I go and check other teams and find well, that appears to be inaccurate. Some have less others have more. There's all sorts of titles listed, some dual roles some part time roles it's a hodge-podge mixture of everything. There is no template how you structure your football department. It appears to be horses for courses model. We are aware that Hodge has a P/T role at our club, he is not listed, Birchall also, there could be others that fill specialist roles. We don't know and we don't need to know. All that matters is that we have been successful, on field and off field for the past six years. Long may it continue.

Also, what is wrong promoting deserving people within the organisation. Morris started his career, as many others have, as a development coach. He has proven himself he has the capacity to advance, so we reward him. That is great for the culture and for the spirit within the ranks. Now Rich has taken the development role. Again reward internally, the guy that has given his heart and soul to our footy club. We are aware that Rich has done some junior coaching, he has been a P/T development (kicking) coach at a Rugby League club, so he doesn't exactly come unprepared.

A new voice may or may not add value. Once again only those involved at management level, Swanny, Daly and Fages would know this. Maybe they searched but could not find the right guy. We gave Selwood a shot and we missed out. So be it. If the right opportunity arises I am sure those making the decisions would be all over it. We don't exactly have a bunch of incompetent dropkicks running our club.

For the moment it has been decided to reward all the coaches for their sacrifice during the Covid period. Well I'm f*ing proud of my club is doing this. What an organisation. Who wouldn't want to work for such an organisation, one that values it's people first and foremost. We are following a great club, we should know and appreciate greatness when we have it, because going back to the days of yesteryear, well I hate to think what could have happened if Swanny, Fages, Nobes did not come to our club.

 

[lioninthesand]

How do you know they both were adding value to the coaching group?

This a joke I’m missing? You now want to argue the opposite point on the same issue?

 

[Mighty Lions]

This a joke I’m missing? You now want to argue the opposite point on the same issue?

Shame you missed it.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Love DD and what he’s become at our club. Genuine star in his role.

Unlike some Lions players & people tagged as well liked, DD is genuinely well liked by everyone. Genuine Star is spot on.

 

[Quigley]

For me I look at the premiers for the last 5 or 6 years and all of them are stacked with ex head coaches and very highly regarded assistants. That is not the case for us and I personally think it is something which should be addressed especially given we are losing two assistants this year. Replace them with at least one top liner.

 

[martinson]

Have to agree.

We're in a window, who knows how long it lasts. No one is denigrating or downgrading our coaching group who have done a great job given the constraints the club works under. But you go and look for players to improve your list every single year. I don't see why you wouldn't occasionally do that with coaches. Given you have to find the right quality of person and for them to be available or open to offers.

 

[Section 5]

For me I look at the premiers for the last 5 or 6 years and all of them are stacked with ex head coaches and very highly regarded assistants. That is not the case for us and I personally think it is something which should be addressed especially given we are losing two assistants this year. Replace them with at least one top liner.

13 of the last 15 premiers were Melbourne clubs.
Another poster pointed out many reasons why assistants prefer to stay put in their state.
Melbourne having 10 of the 18 teams means there is far more opportunity for assistants in that one city.
That translates to more past players moving into coaching also from that one city. You could include media positions as well.

I have no idea why Selwood decided to stay with Geelong rather than move to the Lions.
But family and more future opportunity in Melbourne should the Lions not work out is most likely the reason.
Easy enough for him and others to apply/move into a head coach position from Melbourne if that is in his future plans.

I just think it is far harder for interstate clubs to actually win a premiership more so than if they have quality assistant coaches.
Things are stacked against interstate clubs for a variety of reasons.

However, it is important to have great/good/competent people at the club.
That is from the board down to the runners on game day.
You do your best with what's available.

Being regularly in the top 6 also helps attract good people.

 

[SizeMatters]

For me I look at the premiers for the last 5 or 6 years and all of them are stacked with ex head coaches and very highly regarded assistants. That is not the case for us and I personally think it is something which should be addressed especially given we are losing two assistants this year. Replace them with at least one top liner.

Disgrace by the club. Surely we aren’t too poor to pony up 400k for a world class assistant. We are shedding two plodders and returning…. Nothing.

Under resourced is an understatement. The work stress will just increase with what we have now.

 

[McIvor]

Disgrace by the club. Surely we aren’t too poor to pony up 400k for a world class assistant. We are shedding two plodders and returning…. Nothing.

Under resourced is an understatement. The work stress will just increase with what we have now.

A big part of winning is about the Amal percentages like Leigh implement back in the day with those drips and other methods he implemented.

I can’t for the life of me work out how/why we wouldn’t pay up for good assistants when all clubs have the same soft cap albeit some bigger clubs may pay the tax for spending over. When percentages matter, it beggars belief that we’re happy to just concede on the coaching front. Perhaps as has also been said on this thread that maybe people just don’t want to work under Fagan or he doesn’t have a great reputation or something that I suspect most on here, me included wouldn’t have a clue. We’ll one poster probably thinks they know though….

 

[JasRulz63]

I can’t for the life of me work out how/why we wouldn’t pay up for good assistants when all clubs have the same soft cap albeit some bigger clubs may pay the tax for spending over.

Issue being if teams have the same soft cap, it's hard to pay up for good assistants when they could get that same pay staying in their home town. It's a shame we haven't been able to lure back more past players, but most are not originally from Queensland in the first place.

 

[SizeMatters]

Issue being if teams have the same soft cap, it's hard to pay up for good assistants when they could get that same pay staying in their home town. It's a shame we haven't been able to lure back more past players, but most are not originally from Queensland in the first place.

We have a thin coaching panel. Surely we aren’t paying inexperienced assistants whale sized contracts?

 

[JasRulz63]

We have a thin coaching panel. Surely we aren’t paying inexperienced assistants whale sized contracts?

The salary range of assistant coaches is much less than players. The average salary of an assistant coach is $150,000-200,000 with the top senior assistants being paid up to $300,000.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

The salary range of assistant coaches is much less than players. The average salary of an assistant coach is $150,000-200,000 with the top senior assistants being paid up to $300,000.

I imagine, that like we found with players, assistant coaches with young families are less likely to want to uproot their family to move away from the comfy confines of Melbourne.

 

[JasRulz63]

I imagine, that like we found with players, assistant coaches with young families are less likely to want to uproot their family to move away from the comfy confines of Melbourne.

Especially because the younger coaches are more likely to be in their mid-late 30s where if they have kids, those kids would have settled into a school, partners have gone back to their careers etc.

 

[Quigley]

People move cities all the time for a $250k job especially if it is a successful employer where there are opportunities.

 

[dlanod]

People move cities all the time for a $250k job especially if it is a successful employer where there are opportunities.

How many of those people are choosing between a $250k job from one of ten local employers that doesn't require moving, versus $250k job interstate?

Usually people who are moving, even for substantial pay packets, are because there isn't an equivalent role available without moving, otherwise they'd take that.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

People move cities all the time for a $250k job especially if it is a successful employer where there are opportunities.

The majority of people don't move though. Unless you're talking about people who do not currently have a position in that industry. And I'm to gather from previous discussion on the matter that they are the kind of candidates we don't want.

If they have a secure position and are happy in that role, why would they up and move? If I was offered a similar role to mine for the same or slightly more money in say Canberra (which I have), I'm not going to take it. Number one, I'm happy with my job. Number two, I don't want to uproot my partner who has a good job and my teenage kids who are happy where they are.

I'm not saying there aren't coaches who could be prised out of their roles, but they're generally going to be from teams at the bottom end of the ladder. Or from state leagues or developmental positions as many of our appointments seem to have been recently. But as we've seen with Selwood who has refused a higher position to stay where he was that it's no easy task.

Like with trades or player recruitment, some have the mindset that whatever vague dream scenario they have in their heads, the club is somehow incompetent if they don't get it done.

 

[Nathan Barley]

People move cities all the time for a $250k job especially if it is a successful employer where there are opportunities.

Maybe. But less likely the top ones in the field will move for little upside. Which is the issue

 

[SizeMatters]

Would you move to work under the supposedly best in business? If you’re serious about your career…

I don’t buy the “it’s all too hard to move interstate” excuse. Giants, Swans and Suns haven’t had issues with attracting fantastic assistants and coaches over the years.

We apparently offer exposure to the “best” manager/ system in the business. Apparently. If you’re serious about your job and have ambition/aspirations to be a head coach you take this.

I think the more likely case is we aren’t offering the salary incentive and/or we don’t actually have a well regarded coaching development system. Fagan may have control issues and these whispers get passed down the lines to managers. Heard it from sources close to the head and I’ve banged on about this for a few seasons now.

 

[dlanod]

Giants, Swans and Suns haven’t had issues with attracting fantastic assistants and coaches over the years.

Giants have only really had a couple (Nicks comes to mind), most are ex-players that are getting their first step on the ladder.

Swans seems to get a good selection.

Suns seem to be where coaching careers go to die, so more of a last chance for stigmatised coaches.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Giants have only really had a couple (Nicks comes to mind), most are ex-players that are getting their first step on the ladder.

Swans seems to get a good selection.

Suns seem to be where coaching careers go to die, so more of a last chance for stigmatised coaches.

Might have been referring to Mark Williams spending 2 years there before walking out on the last year of his contract