Coach Fages and the coaching group

[brisbanelions]

I still rate Adam Simpson; Kingsley was the one I’d been hoping wouldn’t get a senior job until we came looking until obviously Giants appointed him.

I’m not sure Fagan is the answer anymore, my only concern is that there is no one out there I can think of that strikes me as the person to succeed Fagan even including current coaches ( Kingsley aside who I’d take in a heartbeat(

Of the current coaches , I would bring back 2 of lions Champions and favourite sons. Chris Scott who would bring an element of toughness that Fagan lacks, premiership experience which Fagan does not have , along with Nigel Lappin and their recruitment officer. Loved some of their decisions in recruiting.

Geelong have shown the way things should be done. I would love that implemented at the lions. Above all Scott’s toughness as a lions player and as a coach in my book is exactly what the lions need as currently I think we are too soft. Scott brothers brought a mongrel mentality to their game which i loved and i feel is currently lacking at the lions. I would also bring in Luke Hodge as mentor and tactical coach . Would bring in new line coaches as well.

The only player who i believe has shown a bit of mongrel is Zorko to his credit. We need more of that.

 

[Squizz89]

You piss off the media, they’ll come for ya. He sounded like a coach under pressure last week. The performance on Sunday certainly wouldn’t have helped that.

 

[Schache_off]

You piss off the media, they’ll come for ya. He sounded like a coach under pressure last week. The performance on Sunday certainly wouldn’t have helped that.

I don't see how he pissed off the media and it didn't seem like they were coming for him either. It was a pretty fair assessment to say Neale didn't slam or bake his team mates as the headline's read. End result for his rant might mean some journalists use less click bait on lions stories or it might just come across like this...

Media live off their click bait headlines.

 

[M Malice]

I don't see how he pissed off the media and it didn't seem like they were coming for him either. It was a pretty fair assessment to say Neale didn't slam or bake his team mates as the headline's read. End result for his rant might mean some journalists use less click bait on lions stories or it might just come across like this...

Media live off their click bait headlines.

There are so many media outlets these days that for the vast majority of them click bait is the only way you get eyeballs and ears.

Not like the old days of 3/4 TV channels and a couple of major newspapers being the source of information.

 

[brisbanelions]

Game plan is never changed because Fagan is obsessed with statistics and thinks it’s on point because of it.

Fagan, in my opinion is one dimensional,old school, stick with what he believes is right regardless and can’t embrace change. He can’t think outside the square, which is a pity because he is a people’s person.

 

[martinson]

I don't see how he pissed off the media and it didn't seem like they were coming for him either. It was a pretty fair assessment to say Neale didn't slam or bake his team mates as the headline's read. End result for his rant might mean some journalists use less click bait on lions stories or it might just come across like this...

Media live off their click bait headlines.

Don't agree at all.

He went on about it when there was no real story but the one that was out there everyone on here agreed with. All stories on anything are written like that these days. Pretty thin skinned to make an issue of that imo.

He's got the 'Us against them ' mentality that all the great coaches have had but it doesn't seem to reflect in other ways.

 

[Squizz89]

Fish’s thoughts on the current state of play.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Fish’s thoughts on the current state of play.

Article way too nice and not critical enough. If we were a Melbourne team the media would be all over us. Players need to read some cold hard truths.

He should be questioning if Rayner, Berry and others should be dropped etc.not their role in the team.

Don’t care what history says, a lot of scrutiny needs to be applied and can’t be afraid to hurt feelings.

 

[Nunez]

Article way too nice and not critical enough. If we were a Melbourne team the media would be all over us. Players need to read some cold hard truths.

He should be questioning if Rayner, Berry and others should be dropped etc.not their role in the team.

Why would we drop Rayner?

There are MANY players who'd be at risk more than Cam.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Why would we drop Rayner?

There are MANY players who'd be at risk more than Cam.

Because he doesn’t deserve a best 22 spot?

It was an example anyway. Questions need to be asked of many players positions in the team.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Because he doesn’t deserve a best 22 spot?

It was an example anyway. Questions need to be asked of many players positions in the team.

Who we replace Rayner with though?

Honestly, we have always played him in the wrong position ever since his first season.

Rayner IMO brings more to the table as that 3rd tall forward than a short burst midfielder as it’s less consuming for his endurance (which is average at best) and plays to his strengths more inside 50.

In saying that, the midfielders need to step up a little more like Dunkley, Berry, Lyons and Robertson cause Neale won’t be here forever and it’s why we are losing the battle every single time.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Who we replace Rayner with though?

Honestly, we have always played him in the wrong position ever since his first season.

Rayner IMO brings more to the table as that 3rd tall forward than a short burst midfielder as it’s less consuming for his endurance (which is average at best) and plays to his strengths more inside 50.

In saying that, the midfielders need to step up a little more like Dunkley, Berry, Lyons and Robertson cause Neale won’t be here forever and it’s why we are losing the battle every single time.

I tend to agree. Rayner’s best games has been that forward role like you mentioned. If he was played there permanently, he would be a gun. He isn’t. They think he is the next Petracca. He isn’t. He is lazy and soft to develop that role. His role is a permanent forward where it’s natural for him.

 

[M Malice]

I tend to agree. Rayner’s best games has been that forward role like you mentioned. If he was played there permanently, he would be a gun. He isn’t. They think he is the next Petracca. He isn’t. He is lazy and soft to develop that role. His role is a permanent forward where it’s natural for him.

Yep, there is enough of a sample size now, Cam is an 80fwd/20mid at best. I do like him at centre bounces, get in there a few times a game and drift forward at the earliest opportunity.

 

[BuntonRules]

Yep, there is enough of a sample size now, Cam is an 80fwd/20mid at best. I do like him at centre bounces, get in there a few times a game and drift forward at the earliest opportunity.

His football is too dumb to play in defence, his tank won't allow mid. Blindingly obvious,

 

[martinson]

His football is too dumb to play in defence, his tank won't allow mid. Blindingly obvious,

I don't want him anywhere near the backline. He's just not disciplined enough nor seems to have the defensive footy smarts.

Why can't we just give him the forward role which he can focus on and potentially be a good player ,maybe very good , and throw him into the centre clearance occasionally.

I got the shudders when Fages said last year Cam has the license to go in there when he feels like it. I mean the guy doesn't seem to have a great footy brain. He's got a belter of a body which he needs to use more , when whatever he does comes off he looks like a gun ,a bit too infrequently , and he's good at sticking up for his mates and pushing the opposition around. But what he really requires is more discipline ,not less.

 

[notliondown]

Fages clearly believes that the group has reached a level of maturity and experience where they should be able to self adjust and be able to provide an even contribution. I do too. He refers to asking the players more and more... as he should. That's his version of putting acid on them... he's asking them to take responsibility.

I do think Fages has his shortcomings... he has more faith than some deserve, he has tried to keep things extremely simple when maybe that time is gone... and more importantly he needs new voices.

I believe the club has made a mistake in not throwing everything at an experienced assistant coach to provide a new set of eyes. I think that missed opportunity will become more costly as time goes on.

BUT...

I am now convinced Fages is also snookered by players on our list who continually offer glimpses of incredible talent and ability - false promise if you like.

We have way too large a number of players who think they are "big moment" players. Players who are inconsistent at best and lazy at worst. Players who have 30 secs of glory and 60 minutes of standing off packs, jogging wide through the centre 20m away waiting for a cheap pass, watching others crash packs in F50.

I see a lot of criticism of players like Berry and Starc on here - or at least their skills. While some of their disposal might be ordinary, it's usually under pressure or after they've run 150m to make a contest. But what you cannot fault is effort. Work rate. Consistency. A few others need to take note.

Until the glory players understand and COMMIT to putting 100% effort consistently, Fages is going to be constantly weighing up their upsides vs their downs. And he's damned if he does and damned if doesn't when he comes to selection. These are not 2nd year players - it seems little is now going to change them.

Could Fages play a more consistent team... almost certainly. Would it lack talent and potential - definitely.

So what's his options???

 

[martinson]

Fages clearly believes that the group has reached a level of maturity and experience where they should be able to self adjust and be able to provide an even contribution. I do to. He refers to asking the players more and more... as he should. That's his version of putting acid on them... he's asking them to take responsibility.

I do think Fages has his shortcomings... he has more faith than some deserve, he has tried to keep things extremely simple when maybe that time is gone... and more importantly he needs new voices.

I believe the club has made a mistake in not throwing everything at an experienced assistant coach to provide a new set of eyes. I think that missed opportunity will become more costly as time goes on.

BUT...

I am now convinced Fages is also snookered by players on our list who continually offer glimpses of incredible talent and ability - false promise if you like.

We have way too large a number of players who think they are "big moment" players. Players who are inconsistent at best and lazy at worst. Players who have 30 secs of glory and 60 minutes of standing off packs, jogging wide through the centre 20m away waiting for a cheap pass, watching others crash packs in F50.

I see a lot of criticism of players like Berry and Starc on here - or at least their skills. While some of their disposal might be ordinary, it's usually under pressure or after they've run 150m to make a contest. But what you cannot lay at their feet is effort. Work rate. Consistency. And a for more need to take note.

Until the glory players understand and COMMIT to putting 100% effort consistently, Fages is going to be constantly weighing up their upsides vs their downs. And he damned if he does and damned if doesn't when he comes to selection. These are not 2nd year players - it seems little is now going to change them.

Could Fages play a more consistent team... almost certainly. Would it lack talent and potential - definitely.

So what's his options???

Jogging wide through the centre is a particular bugbear of mine of certain players. It happened when we were winning.

Fages absolutely needs more help. We're still not far off but the game might pass some guys by unless they're able to commit to contest whatever the circumstances.

I know it seems I'm picking on Cam but just as an example why does he fly for speccies when he takes one a year. He has the skills to fly from the back and get near the ball so look to knock it to the advantage of one of our smalls on the ground. It'd be a lot easier. Just things like that should've been coached out of experienced players by now.

 

[KissKiss]

I don't want him anywhere near the backline. He's just not disciplined enough nor seems to have the defensive footy smarts.

Why can't we just give him the forward role which he can focus on and potentially be a good player ,maybe very good , and throw him into the centre clearance occasionally.

I got the shudders when Fages said last year Cam has the license to go in there when he feels like it. I mean the guy doesn't seem to have a great footy brain. He's got a belter of a body which he needs to use more , when whatever he does comes off he looks like a gun ,a bit too infrequently , and he's good at sticking up for his mates and pushing the opposition around. But what he really requires is more discipline ,not less.

Some one needs to get him to stop flying for so many speccies in the forward line too. So often he flies over the top, doesnt get the ball and at least himself goes to ground and is out of the contest. He doesnt need to be playing front and centre like a small but he clearly needs to be smarter inside 50 or push up and be the half forward delivering the ball inside 50 (although he also tend to hack the ball high rather than trying to pick a pass)

 

[martinson]

Some one needs to get him to stop flying for so many speccies in the forward line too. So often he flies over the top, doesnt get the ball and at least himself goes to ground and is out of the contest. He doesnt need to be playing front and centre like a small but he clearly needs to be smarter inside 50 or push up and be the half forward delivering the ball inside 50 (although he also tend to hack the ball high rather than trying to pick a pass)

He regularly just throws it on the boot and boofs it as high as he can. Other times he can direct hit with a lower trajectory hard kick but generally those ones miss over the top of the player presenting.

Handballs are a bit the same. Don't ask me. He can obviously do it to a high level occasionally but not often.

 

[KissKiss]

He regularly just throws it on the boot and boofs it as high as he can. Other times he can direct hit with a lower trajectory hard kick but generally those ones miss over the top of the player presenting.

Handballs are a bit the same. Don't ask me. He can obviously do it to a high level occasionally but not often.

We definitely seem to have a few players (maybe its a team plan) that favour kicking it as long and far forward as possible with zero vision on whats ahead. Sometimes it works in clearly the interceptors and creating chaos in the forward line. But it feels like Rayner (and a few others) do it too often and its a bit predictable, and hence not really dangerous.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

 

[mpal6]

Jogging wide through the centre is a particular bugbear of mine of certain players. It happened when we were winning.

Fages absolutely needs more help. We're still not far off but the game might pass some guys by unless they're able to commit to contest whatever the circumstances.

I know it seems I'm picking on Cam but just as an example why does he fly for speccies when he takes one a year. He has the skills to fly from the back and get near the ball so look to knock it to the advantage of one of our smalls on the ground. It'd be a lot easier. Just things like that should've been coached out of experienced players by now.

Yep, bolded bit sums it up.

Ross Lyon's post-match comments yesterday also show how much reliance head coach has built on his team these days. His comment about how if you are a reigning premier, the competition works you out sort of mirrors our status too. We've been up for nearly 5 years now - players have matured but we're pretty rigid in our structure and game plan, assistant coach side of things. No wonder the rest are catching up to how to play us, not to mention we are off 10% our usual high standards.

"Lyon said the Saints improved on their stoppage work in comparison to last week's loss to Geelong and hinted the AFL competition had cracked the code on how to defeat Collingwood.

"My coaches – [Corey] Enright, [Brendon] Goddard, Chris McKay and [Robert] Harvey pointed out where we needed to improve. Our effort, we didn't give up last week but our method was a bit off. We buttoned down and got our press going. We got to work pressing the ball and creating a lot of turnovers," he said.

"I thought we buggered it up early, some simple errors at either end of the ground when we had good opportunities, which is more us.

"We just tidied that up at half-time. Last week, the Cats were really good in the contest. We went to school on that, applied good heat and then a couple of simple focus points on Collingwood, a few of their patterns.

"If you're a reigning premier, you've got clear signatures you need to deal with. I think the competition – it may have taken a while, but I think we're seeing those signatures, so it's pretty clear. Often it's hard to stop, but tonight we did a pretty good job of it."

 

[M Malice]

Yep, bolded bit sums it up.

Ross Lyon's post-match comments yesterday also show how much reliance head coach has built on his team these days. His comment about how if you are a reigning premier, the competition works you out sort of mirrors our status too. We've been up for nearly 5 years now - players have matured but we're pretty rigid in our structure and game plan, assistant coach side of things. No wonder the rest are catching up to how to play us, not to mention we are off 10% our usual high standards.

"Lyon said the Saints improved on their stoppage work in comparison to last week's loss to Geelong and hinted the AFL competition had cracked the code on how to defeat Collingwood.

"My coaches – [Corey] Enright, [Brendon] Goddard, Chris McKay and [Robert] Harvey pointed out where we needed to improve. Our effort, we didn't give up last week but our method was a bit off. We buttoned down and got our press going. We got to work pressing the ball and creating a lot of turnovers," he said.

"I thought we buggered it up early, some simple errors at either end of the ground when we had good opportunities, which is more us.

"We just tidied that up at half-time. Last week, the Cats were really good in the contest. We went to school on that, applied good heat and then a couple of simple focus points on Collingwood, a few of their patterns.

"If you're a reigning premier, you've got clear signatures you need to deal with. I think the competition – it may have taken a while, but I think we're seeing those signatures, so it's pretty clear. Often it's hard to stop, but tonight we did a pretty good job of it."

Pretty impressive(on paper) list of assistant coaches Lyon has there.

 

[martinson]

Pretty impressive(on paper) list of assistant coaches Lyon has there.

Our play is too predictable . Obviously you have to work with the players you have .

 

[notliondown]

Our play is too predictable . Obviously you have to work with the players you have .

I don't know that it's predictable... in a way it's chaos ball.

But what it demands is that players give 110% effort 110% of the time because it's basically contested possession and quick ball movement.

When our players either can't or won't do that it breaks down instantly.

I'm not longer convinced that we can kid ourselves that will work anymore.