Coach Fages and the coaching group

[Grasshopper17]

One belief I do still have, which I’ve posted before, is that I don’t believe we are at the same level of fitness of other teams.

I still subscribe to the theory behind this as being it allows your best players to be out there week to week (which we’ve been good at), instead of risking breaking down in training etc.

People bemoan our end of quarters, putting a man behind the ball, not finishing games strongly when we have the oppo on the ropes etc, but I’m not sure it’s all a mental thing necessarily but more physically the players just can’t basically.

Or it may be that the players have become so accustomed to having a spare player go behind the ball late in quarters that they have essentially become addicted to it and physically are unable to play out a full quarter of 6-6-6.

Certainly our players looked exhausted late in the game on Friday night. Poor decision making, atrocious skill execution (how many times did we kick out on the full under no pressure?). Somebody, Sproj I think, went in to bat for them saying it was their first game of the year and it's always like that. Well it was Carlton's first game too and we didn't see any of that rubbish from them late in the game.

 

[Toffee Lion]

We really do need to be sourcing a successor just based on Fages' age alone. Fagan will be 64 next year.

Whether that's a direct replacement for 2025/26 onwards or a mentorship for a year or two.

 

[McIvor]

We need to be actively in the marketplace looking for a quality coach for next season. With the list we have and the potential to walk in and have an immediate impact in the way that McCrae has had at Collingwood, we are a very attractive proposition for a coach like Chris Scott. The ‘redemption’ narrative with Nathan Buckley would also be appealing.

I’m coming around to this and yes off of one game. There are way too many red flags from that one game were extremely telling.

I’ve been concerned for the past year or two that our premiership window is shutting with our best opportunity between 20-23 and we seriously could’ve done a Hawks in 08 and Dogs in 16 and pinched one in 19.

The simple fact remains that if it’s not this year which is extremely doubtful then Fagan has to step aside before it really is too late. We need a circuit breaker and perhaps like Chris Scott when he came in and won it in 11 i think in his first year at the Cats we need that new voice and new methods because the players continuously aren’t learning despite this multitude of learnings that Fagan bangs on about. Look at what Kingsley has done at Giants and but for some BS umpiring in that PF that got Pies in the GF and what they’ll likely do this year it is evident a change is required. Fagan’s message looks to be stale and whilst he has done a brilliant job at the club, we’ve got to make a change if he doesn’t get the flag this year and just maybe someone could salvage something next year which even then is probably too late and a change should’ve been made this past off season.

 

[martinson]

We really do need to be sourcing a successor just based on Fages' age alone. Fagan will be 64 next year.

Whether that's a direct replacement for 2025/26 onwards or a mentorship for a year or two.

Totally agree. Given Fages age and the number of years he's been here it's only common sense that we groom a successor.

It's no reflection on him or any tap on the shoulder , he's an extremely successful coach , but it's just what any pro active organisation would do in preparing for the next 3-4 years.

 

[pod17]

Don’t disagree. Fagan has been immense for the club, turning around the culture and bringing us within a kick of a premiership.
That said, his age, and a lack of game day tactical nous means the discussion to find his successor is a fair one.
I’d be bringing in someone who has a strong defensive bent to the way they coach, that strangles opposition. We don’t do that. Not many clubs in recent memory have won flags based on a highly attacking game plan.
I’d love to see some data around how many games say a Richmond between 2017-2020 lost after being up by 3 or 4 goals. I’d say close to none based off nothing but memory. The fact we are able to reel off so many, with no observable change to stifle the momentum, means that a fresh perspective might just be the thing we need to take us further.
Our draw is very difficult this year, and the season could slip away if we don’t turn things around quickly. Let’s hope Fages can surprise us with something.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Don’t disagree. Fagan has been immense for the club, turning around the culture and bringing us within a kick of a premiership.
That said, his age, and a lack of game day tactical nous means the discussion to find his successor is a fair one.
I’d be bringing in someone who has a strong defensive bent to the way they coach, that strangles opposition. We don’t do that. Not many clubs in recent memory have won flags based on a highly attacking game plan.
I’d love to see some data around how many games say a Richmond between 2017-2020 lost after being up by 3 or 4 goals. I’d say close to none based off nothing but memory. The fact we are able to reel off so many, with no observable change to stifle the momentum, means that a fresh perspective might just be the thing we need to take us further.
Our draw is very difficult this year, and the season could slip away if we don’t turn things around quickly. Let’s hope Fages can surprise us with something.

I can certainly remember being at a Giants v Richmond game in 2017 where Richmond lost after being up by 5-6 goals.

 

[Chucky_23]

I haven’t been to training since very early in the season.

Does Birchall still participate in coaching as well?

I know he’s listed as our game day “runner”, but he was involved in our day to day training as well.

New runner this year, bit more mobile than the last

 

[SpecialBruce]

I’m coming around to this and yes off of one game. There are way too many red flags from that one game were extremely telling.

I’ve been concerned for the past year or two that our premiership window is shutting with our best opportunity between 20-23 and we seriously could’ve done a Hawks in 08 and Dogs in 16 and pinched one in 19.

The simple fact remains that if it’s not this year which is extremely doubtful then Fagan has to step aside before it really is too late. We need a circuit breaker and perhaps like Chris Scott when he came in and won it in 11 i think in his first year at the Cats we need that new voice and new methods because the players continuously aren’t learning despite this multitude of learnings that Fagan bangs on about. Look at what Kingsley has done at Giants and but for some BS umpiring in that PF that got Pies in the GF and what they’ll likely do this year it is evident a change is required. Fagan’s message looks to be stale and whilst he has done a brilliant job at the club, we’ve got to make a change if he doesn’t get the flag this year and just maybe someone could salvage something next year which even then is probably too late and a change should’ve been made this past off season.

100%

This is a defining year. We should have had a flag by now - we have had one of the best teams in the comp for a number of years. Can’t help but feel another coach would have taken us to the next level.

We have some ageing players and Daniher only has a couple of years left based on his past injuries - his body will let him down soon.

Neale will end up back in WA before his career ends too. Guarantee it.

Then you look at the players who don’t get dropped. No other coach would have kept Rayner in the squad for as long as they have. Berry and other players too. No other coach would put up with the crap output.

Flag or bust this year. If we don’t win the Flag then Fagan needs to go because our window will start to shut and we want at least one flag before it shuts completely in 2 years from now.

So far with the list we have, Fagan’s tenure has been a failure. The only way it doesn’t end that way is through a flag.

 

[DreadBat5701894]

I don’t really think our window is shutting.

 

[Kickback Flip]

We need to be actively in the marketplace looking for a quality coach for next season. With the list we have and the potential to walk in and have an immediate impact in the way that McCrae has had at Collingwood, we are a very attractive proposition for a coach like Chris Scott. The ‘redemption’ narrative with Nathan Buckley would also be appealing.

I would love to get Justin Leppitsch back as Senior Coach or 2IC. His experience, tactical nous and football knowledge would be extremely invaluable. I still think he was the main architect for Richmond and Collingwood to achieve their ultimate goals of winning premierships.

 

[M Malice]

So far with the list we have, Fagan’s tenure has been a failure. The only way it doesn’t end that way is through a flag.

We as a club were a laughing stock and a complete rabble before Messrs Fagan, Noble and Swann came on board.

IMO Fagan's tenure has been a success flag or not, we are now a club to be proud of.

 

[Nathan Barley]

It’s interesting the same posters who take pot shots at half our best 22 also think our list guarantees us a premiership and Fagan is the issue

 

[M Malice]

I don’t really think our window is shutting.

Agree, I think our sweet spot for a flag was/is 2023 to 2026.

 

[pod17]

I can certainly remember being at a Giants v Richmond game in 2017 where Richmond lost after being up by 5-6 goals.

True, I do remember that one now. Just feels to me that of all the recent successful teams we’ve had less of a defensive bent to our game.
If there’s a positive to come out of the Coleman injury, maybe it’s that we look to change up our defensive structure a bit.

 

[dlanod]

I can certainly remember being at a Giants v Richmond game in 2017 where Richmond lost after being up by 5-6 goals.

I remember being at that game too, because I had to leave at 3/4 time to rush home to take my daughter to the hospital. Ending up getting to check the score once we were waiting in emergency and was very shocked.

 

[SpecialBruce]

We as a club were a laughing stock and a complete rabble before Messrs Fagan, Noble and Swann came on board.

IMO Fagan's tenure has been a success flag or not, we are now a club to be proud of.

Whilst that is true, I guess taking in your last point, best to see what happens three years post Fagan

 

[SpecialBruce]

I would love to get Justin Leppitsch back as Senior Coach or 2IC. His experience, tactical nous and football knowledge would be extremely invaluable. I still think he was the main architect for Richmond and Collingwood to achieve their ultimate goals of winning premierships.

Leppitsch can and will have the same trajectory as Voss. Leppa was thrown in the deep end, with a crap list and he had no idea what he was doing. He was a key success to Richmond. He would make a good coach now. I don’t think he should look for assistant roles

 

[SpecialBruce]

Agree, I think our sweet spot for a flag was/is 2023 to 2026.

2020 to 2024/2025 was my initial thought back then and it hasn’t waivered. Think 2026 we will start to go downhill. Hope you are right and I am wrong

 

[T Rick]

May have been mentioned by others elsewhere - my apologies, if so. We have adopted a very different strategy when standing the mark/free kick...we move quickly back to "outside 5m", enabling our otherwise "stand" player being able to be active and on the move rather than stuck on the mark and at risk of giving away a ridiculous 50m penalty. I like it!

 

[martinson]

In a way we're a victim of our own success. Did I not read somewhere that we've won more games than any other team in the last 5 years ?

If you do that everyone wants more.

I actually agree with what everyone has said on this thread even though the views might appear to be opposing.

Yes we've had more success than would've been reasonable but if you're not shaking things up every now and then you're standing still. Fages came in with a mantra of doing the same thing over and over with the same players to build consistency. At that he's been extremely successful. It's not part of his philosophy to change things up. Who knows ,it's quite possible that we've over achieved with the players we have ,not under achieved as some think.

Re windows my feeling is this is just about it which is why last night cut me a bit because we can't afford to drop games at home if we want a top2 spot which is our best shot at a flag. As last year illustrated.

 

[dlanod]

May have been mentioned by others elsewhere - my apologies, if so. We have adopted a very different strategy when standing the mark/free kick...we move quickly back to "outside 5m", enabling our otherwise "stand" player being able to be active and on the move rather than stuck on the mark and at risk of giving away a ridiculous 50m penalty. I like it!

It was definitely a deliberate thing we did last night after it not being a feature of our game.

I'm not generally a fan of it, every time I've seen it it's basically giving up five metres of field position for no benefit. The Dogs have done it a lot and from memory the Cats have adopted it at times, and it never seems to pay off - not only are you giving up five metres, you're backpedalling so quickly to avoid the stand/50m scenario that it allows an easy play on and quick movement by the opponent.

 

[Nathan Barley]

It was definitely a deliberate thing we did last night after it not being a feature of our game.

I'm not generally a fan of it, every time I've seen it it's basically giving up five metres of field position for no benefit. The Dogs have done it a lot and from memory the Cats have adopted it at times, and it never seems to pay off - not only are you giving up five metres, you're backpedalling so quickly to avoid the stand/50m scenario that it allows an easy play on and quick movement by the opponent.

Pretty sure Collingwood used it a fair bit last year

 

[T Rick]

It was definitely a deliberate thing we did last night after it not being a feature of our game.

I'm not generally a fan of it, every time I've seen it it's basically giving up five metres of field position for no benefit. The Dogs have done it a lot and from memory the Cats have adopted it at times, and it never seems to pay off - not only are you giving up five metres, you're backpedalling so quickly to avoid the stand/50m scenario that it allows an easy play on and quick movement by the opponent.

Beg to differ Dlanod. It seems that when a player is called to "stand" he is left flatfooted and isolated and at risk of giving away a 50m penalty. At the same time, the player with the ball is given enormous latitude to run off at an angle before the "play on" call and it seems to me that rarely does the playmaker take advantage of the 5m you refer to.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Don’t disagree. Fagan has been immense for the club, turning around the culture and bringing us within a kick of a premiership.
That said, his age, and a lack of game day tactical nous means the discussion to find his successor is a fair one.
I’d be bringing in someone who has a strong defensive bent to the way they coach, that strangles opposition. We don’t do that. Not many clubs in recent memory have won flags based on a highly attacking game plan.
I’d love to see some data around how many games say a Richmond between 2017-2020 lost after being up by 3 or 4 goals. I’d say close to none based off nothing but memory. The fact we are able to reel off so many, with no observable change to stifle the momentum, means that a fresh perspective might just be the thing we need to take us further.
Our draw is very difficult this year, and the season could slip away if we don’t turn things around quickly. Let’s hope Fages can surprise us with something.

I was watching the telecast of some game over the weekend, must have been the Tigers game, and Jack Riewoldt was asked if anything changed in Dimma's coaching that took Richmond from being an also-ran to a premiership team, and his answer was along the lines of, 'he decided to mould his tactics around the players we had,' rather than try and fit those players into some pre-ordained gameplan.

P'raps we just don't have the cattle to play patient lockdown football and would be better off attacking unrelentingly.

 

[M Malice]

I was watching the telecast of some game over the weekend, must have been the Tigers game, and Jack Riewoldt was asked if anything changed in Dimma's coaching that took Richmond from being an also-ran to a premiership team, and his answer was along the lines of, 'he decided to mould his tactics around the players we had,' rather than try and fit those players into some pre-ordained gameplan.

P'raps we just don't have the cattle to play patient lockdown football and would be better off attacking unrelentingly.

I haven't heard **** say it too much over the last couple of seasons but when he first came on board he was always saying that he wanted us to be a side that used and improved our players "weapons"... but also improve their weaknesses.