Coach Fages and the coaching group

[Kickback Flip]

Fagan isn't a tactical coach, he is more like a Welfare Manager.

 

[Nathan Barley]

We should've played a spare man but most of these players should've learned at 10 years old to take territory in the wet

Just dumb footballers with no on field leadership

 

[William C]

Fagan will look at his stats sheet and say we were pretty good. He'll pat himself on the back and wish we went 13.4 instead of 4.13. Only thing he won't address is how tactically inept we are and a lack of plan B.

Credit to the cats though. They gave up the numbers to have spare men at the back and countered us beautifully

 

[Dom PC]

Top 6 disposal getters were Brisbane players tonight. Since when did we decide the Bulldogs game plan was good for wet weather football... or ever a good game plan to follow.

I am a fagan fan still, but fmd. Tonight is a real head scratcher, we can't afford to be balls'ing up games like tonight.

Top 4 hopes are gone this season. Questioning if we make the 8 atm. Tonight was so poor from the whole club.

 

[martinson]

When the game was on the line after we'd fired a few bullets there was little leadership or desire to stay in the contest.

So it's over to the coaches to spell it out clearly.

 

[Squizz89]

Fagan will look at his stats sheet and say we were pretty good. He'll pat himself on the back and wish we went 13.4 instead of 4.13. Only thing he won't address is how tactically inept we are and a lack of plan B.

Credit to the cats though. They gave up the numbers to have spare men at the back and countered us beautifully

And this is why I don’t like how he treats some of the media up here. I get it after the hawthorn thing he no longer trusts anyone in it but if he was in Melbourne he’d be copping a far harder time of it then he gets up here.

I actually wish the media would go harder week to week instead of letting him trot out “yeah the stats showed we played well” rhetoric he spits out week to week.

 

[Tom14]

I don’t think we can put the loss down to the coaches tonight. I’m not sure they could’ve coached them to play the opposite to what they should have in the circumstances. Surely.

I agree completely but as I’ve said before in this thread, it’s much harder to change a list than it is to change a coach. At some point a coach stops getting the best out of the players.

 

[martinson]

You have to entertain the thought that Fagan's had his time if we turn in too many weak efforts like that.

Maybe the message is not working any more.

We've got 4 games coming up where we should win at least 3 . Drop a couple of those and we're done this year imo.

 

[martinson]

I agree completely but as I’ve said before in this thread, it’s much harder to change a list than it is to change a coach. At some point a coach stops getting the best out of the players.

You're convincing me.

We just didn't want it enough at all. Seen the same thing at various stages this year.

Some of our efforts inside 50 just weren't indicative of a team switched on that was desperate to win.

 

[Tom14]

You have to entertain the thought that Fagan's had his time if we turn in too many weak efforts like that.

Maybe the message is not working any more.

We've got 4 games coming up where we should win at least 3 . Drop a couple of those and we're done this year imo.

Realistically year is done regardless. We might limp into the finals but if we aren’t top 4 we are no shot. Injuries have hit enough as well.

I don’t think this list is done but I doubt that the board is bold enough to make a change when knowing it could backfire. I just see a 9th-12th finish which is useless given Levi.

 

[Squizz89]

Realistically year is done regardless. We might limp into the finals but if we aren’t top 4 we are no shot. Injuries have hit enough as well.

I don’t think this list is done but I doubt that the board is bold enough to make a change when knowing it could backfire. I just see a 9th-12th finish which is useless given Levi.

I still think there’s enough talent on the list to finish somewhere in the 8. We’ll naturally beat enough teams less talented. The losses will come against the better teams, as I said in the game thread, when those teams go we just don’t wanna go with them anymore.

 

[Tom14]

A few have said that for some time which is no disrespect to Fagan and what he’s done for the club. I trust he’ll know when it’s time to depart but I hope it’s end of the year when he realises he’s taken the team as far as it can go.

Exactly - this is not a criticism of Fages per se. He’s taken us farther than I could have dreamed.

But the cracks in our system have been there for a while and we’ve muscled through with talent. No shock that last week was our best pressure rating since the 2022 semi final against the dees - the last time we won a game on defensive application.

 

[martinson]

Realistically year is done regardless. We might limp into the finals but if we aren’t top 4 we are no shot. Injuries have hit enough as well.

I don’t think this list is done but I doubt that the board is bold enough to make a change when knowing it could backfire. I just see a 9th-12th finish which is useless given Levi.

I haven't given up totally on the year but not blaming anyone who has.

We can still win our next 4 with a massive turnaround in mindset.

Unlikely I know

 

[Tom14]

I haven't given up totally on the year but not blaming anyone who has.

We can still win our next 4 with a massive turnaround in mindset.

Unlikely I know

We definitely could - but we’ve given up such a head start and we have the hardest draw in the comp. Even the suns are a win up on us (assuming they lose tomorrow) with a cupcake draw to come.

 

[martinson]

We definitely could - but we’ve given up such a head start and we have the hardest draw in the comp. Even the suns are a win up on us (assuming they lose tomorrow) with a cupcake draw to come.

Dropping 3/3 at home when we've won every time there for ages is giving us the message.

You see the same signs every year a team drops off.

I'm not overly dramatic but my personal view is we need a complete overhaul and refresh across the playing and coaching groups.

Maybe this Hawthorn saga did more damage that we thought.

We still have the team to be Top 3 or 4 in 2025 but we won't get there without rattling a few cages because some of our players just don't have the will any more. We're playing tired footy.

 

[JasRulz63]

GWS and Carlton were both on 4 wins at round 12 last year, so it's not impossible we turn this around, but it is hard to see at the moment.

 

[martinson]

GWS and Carlton were both on 4 wins at round 12 last year, so it's not impossible we turn this around, but it is hard to see at the moment.

We need to win our next 4 ,maybe 5 because our draw is a bit of a horror show after that.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Fagan will be remembered as a coach who WASTED A PREMIERSHIP WINDOW that was wide open.

 

[3KZ is Football]

We should've played a spare man but most of these players should've learned at 10 years old to take territory in the wet

Just dumb footballers with no on field leadership

It will be my message tomorrow in the pre-match with the Under 12’s. When it is wet and I ask them what my favourite wet weather statistic is, they all answer in unison is “metres gained”. I honestly wouldn’t trust Fagan with my team.

 

[p4p1]

Writing the season off a bit early. I’m as disappointed as anyone else in the loss and the way we played for an elite player Hugh played one of the dumbest games I’ve ever seen from a player of that quality. He’s a country Vic boy, surely he is used to wet weather.

 

[Requiem]

I think it's important to assess Fagan in a more objective context, especially after such a disappointing loss. We've yet to have a 'poor' season under Fagan comparative to the expectation of the capabilities of our list heading into the year, this might be his first one. For the record thus far, we've been statically one of the best performing Home & Away teams consistently since 2019, and our finals performances have slowly started to mirror that regular season record, culminating in a Grand Final appearance last season, and almost a premiership.

Speaking of which, It's important to remember that it's not uncommon for a team to under perform the following season after making a Grand Final. Case in point, just look at Geelong and Sydney last year, both teams heavily under performed based on their pre season expectations - just like Collingwood & Brisbane thus far - and they've both looked to have bounced back into premiership contention this year.

Additionally, winning premierships is an extremely difficult endeavour, requiring an organization to be aligned from top to bottom to even be able to realistically attempt an assault on the flag. Most clubs will not succeed in their quest for Premiership Glory the majority of the time, and most head coaches will not make Grand Finals, let alone win premierships. This is the brutal truth about team sports.

Why should we be so quick to throw the baby out with the bath water, why dump a Head Coach that has had a tremendously positive impact since his arrival, especially when finding someone who is able to fulfill the role and develop a premiership contender is already a difficult task? There is zero guarantee that replacing Fagan will achieve us the ultimate success, and the pitfalls of a wrong coaching hire can be devastating, we have seen the alternative in our history that is only all too recent.

 

[jumbojet]

Coaching a winning team is far easier than a losing one

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

This year is another wasted
Just not able to do the things that well drilled teams do.
Look at Geelong
They set up behind the ball to cover our hack kicks
And even though it was wet , they still had players on the outside of contests free running in pairs
We struggle to find a man on the outside in any game wet or dry.

Can’t see fages doing much different
Next season new direction is a must
Could be earlier but doubt it
I think we end up around 7th and bail out, that will be enough to save fages
For this season anyway
Writing is on the wall , we need a better system from someone else

 

[Squizz89]

I guess a good question to ask is if the coaches swapped boxes last night who wins the game?

My belief though is it still couldn’t have been a coaching issue. There’s no way they could’ve been that stupid to coach them play dry weather footy in rain like that. So, if that’s the case it makes no sense why the players chose to.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Writing the season off a bit early. I’m as disappointed as anyone else in the loss and the way we played for an elite player Hugh played one of the dumbest games I’ve ever seen from a player of that quality. He’s a country Vic boy, surely he is used to wet weather.

What? Rain? Warrnambool? You might be right!