Coach Fages and the coaching group

[martinson]

You said we’d been figured out and had to develop a new gameplan

Well we've definitely been figured out I don't think there's any question of that.

The opposition still has to be good enough to beat you.

I don't recall saying we had to develop a new gameplan but I think we need to update the one we have. In all of the many ways and issues I've described prior. As have others.

Btw. If my schtick was to cherry pick from the many things you say and extrapolate or misrepresent it to somehow assert my superior understanding of the game you might find it a tad annoying.

 

[moncon]

There's that story about when JFK visited NASA, and he goes up to some bloke and says "And what do you do here?". The bloke was a janitor. The bloke replied "I'm helping to put a man on the moon."

What's my point? For years it's annoyed me to see unhealthily overweight people sitting on our bench or running on to the ground. Not the players: the staff. With everything there to get fit and healthy right in front of you at work every day - gyms, dieticians, you name it - I just don't understand it.

If you're going to win, you need to commit. I'd love to see the back room types make a commitment to getting themselves into great physical shape. Couldn't hurt, right? And would show the players (and the fans) that the whole club is committed to being as good as they can be.

 

[martinson]

Geez we're copping it tonight.

Someone from the Dogs has turned up to have a crack at us.

Did they win a game ?

 

[Kwickhatch]

Geez we're copping it tonight.

Someone from the Dogs has turned up to have a crack at us.

Did they win a game ?

Yea they flogged the eagles

 

[Nathan Barley]

Is he wrong?

Too early/ impossible to tell. What’s killing us is mostly nothing to do with gameplan; dropped marks, missed tackles, lack of effort, shocking goal kicking. Plus we’ve shown a couple of times against strong opposition how we can still control games

Would be a phenomenal gameplan for us to be even 2-1 with 80% of the side badly out of form (we actually weren’t that far off being 2-1).

Well we've definitely been figured out I don't think there's any question of that.

The opposition still has to be good enough to beat you.

I don't recall saying we had to develop a new gameplan but I think we need to update the one we have. In all of the many ways and issues I've described prior. As have others.

Btw. If my schtick was to cherry pick from the many things you say and extrapolate or misrepresent it to somehow assert my superior understanding of the game you might find it a tad annoying.

So where does gameplan fit in to performing well? If everyone has figured out our gameplan but nobody can beat us.

 

[martinson]

Too early/ impossible to tell. What’s killing us is mostly nothing to do with gameplan; dropped marks, missed tackles, lack of effort, shocking goal kicking. Plus we’ve shown a couple of times against strong opposition how we can still control games

Would be a phenomenal gameplan for us to be even 2-1 with 80% of the side badly out of form (we actually weren’t that far off being 2-1).



So where does gameplan fit in to performing well? If everyone has figured out our gameplan but nobody can beat us.

We don't have the personnel to control games for long enough to win them against good opposition right at this juncture. What's your obsession with gameplan ? Part of it is things we don't do at present.

We've played 2 at home and lost both. Should've won both but we lost.

We got spanked in our only away game.

Why don't you tell us what our gameplan is and why it's so good and where it could be improved .

 

[Dalions]

I don’t see the game plan as a problem.
It is the consistency of effort and efficiency that is the problem.

 

[Tom14]

Is the gamestyle the issue or is it form/personnel?

I can be sold on our defensive method/application being off. I can be convinced too on fitness be an issue relative to the competition.

I don't think it is fair to question our ball movement really, we've been totally fine/excellent with it for a long time. We've suffered two really unfortunate injuries to our two most creative half backs, including easily our best kick in the team (arguably in the comp). Hard to adjust to that on the fly.

Pre-season we were trying to handball more and get run and carry, we saw that for a quarter then it dropped away badly. Now players are nervous, worried about getting into a track meet that exposes our defenders, and are reverting back to the tried and tested slow play method. If our forwards were going better (or if we could win a ground ball inside F50) the results would be better.

Point being, maybe we are stale and need a freshen up which is where I'm at with the senior coach. I don't really have an issue with team selection or gamestyle but do wonder whether we have reached the end of the road with that approach, and if we continue to lose and have a down year then its time to experiment and hopefully take advantage of an easier draw next year.

BUT also underplayed is how much goal kicking accuracy has affected us this year:







All of our results would have been closer with expected conversion rates, we should have won the carlton game even with our horrible second and third quarter. I don't think we are genuinely going bad enough for 0-3 but when so many areas of your game are off even 1-5% it can lead to this position - and poor shot conversion from some of our best players is a big problem.

 

[Nathan Barley]

We don't have the personnel to control games for long enough to win them against good opposition right at this juncture. What's your obsession with gameplan ? Part of it is things we don't do at present.

We've played 2 at home and lost both. Should've won both but we lost.

We got spanked in our only away game.

Why don't you tell us what our gameplan is and why it's so good and where it could be improved .

Sorry but can you not remember back more than 6 months?

I just cannot fathom people losing so much faith in this club.

Look our ball movement has always been poor which we’ve been trying to fix with some personnel change. We often have to resort to bombing long due to lack of run and skills.

Backline is average defensively so we’ve had to make some changes through to middle to be more accountable and had a greater focus on forward pressure.

Territory game is big for us due to our poor ball movement we rely on cashing in from clearances and the backs playing high up the ground and intercepting. Unfortunately our midfield has been abysmal this season due to injuries and collectively being in shocking form.

Forwardline generally has been good one on one but with our ball movement regressing, lack of clearances, poor form, shocking goal kicking and dropped marks we’ve struggled.

And despite all this not much would’ve had to of gone differently for us to be 2-1 right now.

My main concern right now is with such a large group so badly out of form it’s hard to see that turning around in time for us get a run on this season and our lack of depth in key areas making it hard to cover for injuries.

If we can get a couple of months with our 4 gun mids all playing and Zorko covering for Kiddy and we’re still getting smashed for large parts of matches then we have to look at something different for next year

Drafting and development is something that needs attention sooner

 

[Elixuh]

Basically what Tom said. If we had a little more luck and a few players in slightly better form, we are 3-0.

It’s frustrating because all these spud teams are at the top of the ladder and you’ve got teams like Sydney losing to Richmond etc.

 

[Tom14]

Basically what Tom said. If we had a little more luck and a few players in slightly better form, we are 3-0.

It’s frustrating because all these spud teams are at the top of the ladder and you’ve got teams like Sydney losing to Richmond etc.

To add a negative note totally belying my sober analysis above - quite frankly the vibes are bad.

I’m abandoning the stats approach this year and going on vibes, and boy these are dreadful ones, particularly with three straight road games coming up.

 

[Squizz89]

The game plan has been the same as it has been the last 5 years, which has been good enough to get us consistently in the top 4 each year. Whether it has been good enough to take us all the way is probably a different debate of course.

In regards to how we look right now, imo we just look like a team who has been to the well so many times and the motivation to compete for a full 80 minutes looks beyond them after being up for so long. We look like world beaters for a quarter each week and then WCE for other parts of the game.

It also looks like a couple of guys are starting to age a bit which doesn’t help, and then you couple all that with losing one of our most important players for the year after a half of football, it just looks like it’s all conspired to cook them.

To even make the 8 from here will take some coaching effort I think.

 

[Nathan Barley]

In hindsight how far was a midfield based around Neale, Lyons and Clug on the outside really going to take us?

No coincidence that adding Dunkley and Ashcroft transformed our side last year

Really think our success from 2019-22 was testament to the coaching staff getting a lot from a playing list with a lot of holes in it

And we have recruited well to fill some of those gaps with Joe, Dunks and McKenna coming to the club

 

[Elixuh]

To add a negative note totally belying my sober analysis above - quite frankly the vibes are bad.

I’m abandoning the stats approach this year and going on vibes, and boy these are dreadful ones, particularly with three straight road games coming up.

I need you to use tomorrows public holiday to quantify a vibe stat for us

 

[martinson]

Sorry but can you not remember back more than 6 months?

I just cannot fathom people losing so much faith in this club.

Look our ball movement has always been poor which we’ve been trying to fix with some personnel change. We often have to resort to bombing long due to lack of run and skills.

Backline is average defensively so we’ve had to make some changes through to middle to be more accountable and had a greater focus on forward pressure.

Territory game is big for us due to our poor ball movement we rely on cashing in from clearances and the backs playing high up the ground and intercepting. Unfortunately our midfield has been abysmal this season due to injuries and collectively being in shocking form.

Forwardline generally has been good one on one but with our ball movement regressing, lack of clearances, poor form, shocking goal kicking and dropped marks we’ve struggled.

And despite all this not much would’ve had to of gone differently for us to be 2-1 right now.

My main concern right now is with such a large group so badly out of form it’s hard to see that turning around in time for us get a run on this season and our lack of depth in key areas making it hard to cover for injuries.

If we can get a couple of months with our 4 gun mids all playing and Zorko covering for Kiddy and we’re still getting smashed for large parts of matches then we have to look at something different for next year

Drafting and development is something that needs attention sooner

Well I don't disagree with any of that.

From my perspective there has been no faith lost in the club.

I'm trying to figure ways we could win matches now to stay in the hunt and if we can't do that then develop/get personnel/tweak the gameplan to still have a decent crack in 2025.

3 issues I see . We're stale . Players out of form but I don't think it'd take much for some of them to find form , I query motivation. Injuries. On top of that we needed to win those games early because our draw isn't that hot.

At some stage during the year we'll get a fitter and more desperate outfit together and we'll see if our gameplan and style still stacks up to the better teams.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Well I don't disagree with any of that.

From my perspective there has been no faith lost in the club.

I'm trying to figure ways we could win matches now to stay in the hunt and if we can't do that then develop/get personnel/tweak the gameplan to still have a decent crack in 2025.

3 issues I see . We're stale . Players out of form but I don't think it'd take much for some of them to find form , I query motivation. Injuries. On top of that we needed to win those games early because our draw isn't that hot.

At some stage during the year we'll get a fitter and more desperate outfit together and we'll see if our gameplan and style still stacks up to the better teams.

One thing I'm not picking up on is the stale bit. What are people who say we're stale expecting?

 

[martinson]

One thing I'm not picking up on is the stale bit. What are people who say we're stale expecting?

Expecting us to be stale ??

I think we almost got there last year ,shorter prep, hearing the same messages trying to get us up for games , we just haven't quite got it in us at the moment. Stale.

It's not unexpected to me. I'm just saying what it is.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Expecting us to be stale ??

I think we almost got there last year ,shorter prep, hearing the same messages trying to get us up for games , we just haven't quite got it in us at the moment. Stale.

It's not unexpected to me. I'm just saying what it is.

So being stale is just playing poorly?

 

[martinson]

So being stale is just playing poorly?

What are you on Nathan. You know what stale is.

Inability to make your normal sustained effort due to being around the block a few times and not quite getting where you want to go and having to face the same grind to get there again . It passes and you freshen up. If you're any good.

I'm done now Nathan,

Thanks for the intercourse.

 

[Nathan Barley]

What are you on Nathan. You know what stale is.

Inability to make your normal sustained effort due to being around the block a few times and not quite getting where you want to go and having to face the same grind to get there again . It passes and you freshen up. If you're any good.

I'm done now Nathan,

Thanks for the intercourse.

Interesting. I'd assumed it was something similar to stagnating

 

[McIvor]

I can see who is being obstinate in this exchange; what a surprise.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Interesting aspect of the Collingwood game .

We completely dominated the 2nd quarter. I commented at the time the Pies looked out on their feet. We didn't capitalise on the domination and booted it into a crowded forward line more often than not.

Does anyone think the Pies were foxing ? We came out in the 3rd quarter, all the energy was gone , the game suddenly opened up for them.

It was weird to watch.

So what was the coaching approach at half time? That’s what interests me. We hit the front by half time - Collingwood were rattled and then we sleep walked through the third quarter. Coaches need to be able to capitalise and drive momentum ‘in game’. Bill Stephen had Gary Wilson, who was knocked out in the opening minutes of Fitzroy’s Rd. 1 clash against Collingwood at Victoria Park, carted back onto the ground on a stretcher at 1/4 time and placed him in the middle of the player huddle. We had a 7 goal to 1 second quarter and went on to win by 80 points!
Richmond came out today after 1/2 time absolutely breathing fire! I imagine Yze had a bit to do with that. What does Fagan do, read the players team stats? He’s just too ‘vanilla’ and too scared of ruffling feathers. His selection practices, with generous mulligans for all but the usual suspects, are testament to that.

The jig is up. The media are on to him and people who understand football on our board are on to him. Lachie Neale was 100% correct when he said that we haven’t achieved anything yet. Not being a laughing stock, ‘being relevant’ and honourable losses is not what it is all about. It’s about winning PREMIERSHIPS.

 

[BRAB]

A nice little side story to this season going off the rails could be Nathan Barley still taking the contrarian position that nothing is wrong in the event we start the season 0-10.

 

[dlanod]

Does anyone think the Pies were foxing ? We came out in the 3rd quarter, all the energy was gone , the game suddenly opened up for them.

It was weird to watch.

No. I don't think any coach wants their team to deliberately play bad or with less intent because it has such a massive chance of backfiring.

 

[3KZ is Football]

A nice little side story to this season going off the rails could be Nathan Barley still taking the contrarian position that nothing is wrong in the event we start the season 0-10.

… at which point he would use Fagan’s logic and explain that there is no need to panic because there are still 13 games to go.