First 22 in 2023

[25 years on]

Depends if picking players based on current performance becomes the norm rather than a thing-we-did-in-finals once...

I think it’s better to finish somewhere in the top eight after 22 rounds with fully fit player, than top two with half the team tired and carrying injury.

 

[Bombers36]

McKenna, Dunkley & Gunston great additions to your already strong line up - your going to really push to play in a grand final in 2023 with this 23;-


Starcevich Andrews Gardiner

Rich Adams McKenna

Berry Dunkley Baily

McCarntey Hipwood Zorko

Gunston Daniher Cameron



McInerney Neil McCluggage



Bench: Answerth Lyons Ashcroft Rayner Coleman

 

[Sproj]

It was apparent this year that Kiddy is a gun BUT he also has an issue with his motor. If he can’t fix that, he might well have Wilmott take his spot now we have McKenna as well.

 

[nup]

Im as excited as Ive ever been to watch the Lions play next year now with the changes to the team. The departures and additions necessitate changing dynamics, and the exciting skill sets and experience are going to see the team playing some of the most watchable footy in years I reckon.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

It was apparent this year that Kiddy is a gun BUT he also has an issue with his motor. If he can’t fix that, he might well have Wilmott take his spot now we have McKenna as well.

Maybe Keidan could play on a wing instead, and play 2 of McKenna, Ah Chee, Answerth, Wilmott in defence.

 

[Scubaveg]

It was apparent this year that Kiddy is a gun BUT he also has an issue with his motor. If he can’t fix that, he might well have Wilmott take his spot now we have McKenna as well.

Kiddy could move to the wing. His delivery inside 50 is elite.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Dalions]

Maybe Keidan could play on a wing instead, and play 2 of McKenna, Ah Chee, Answerth, Wilmott in defence.

Not sure Kiddy’s running capacity would suit a wing.
But as it develops he could move further up the ground for sure.

 

[On the quiet]

It was apparent this year that Kiddy is a gun BUT he also has an issue with his motor. If he can’t fix that, he might well have Wilmott take his spot now we have McKenna as well.

Big call, but I would rather Kiddy in the back 6 then Rich, whilst Kiddy does have some defensive lapses his offence and kicking makes up for that, but I don't believe we can have Rich with his defensive lapses and lack of speed, but extremely unlikely Rich won't be picked. Wilmott showed more than enough and it is time for Payne to be given first crack for 2023.

My back 7
Starc, Andrews, Adams/Gardiner(prefer Adams)
Kiddy, Payne, Wilmott/Answerth
Rich or McKenna

I like the line of Kiddy, Payne, Wlmott, whilst it is inexperienced to some degree, IMO it provides pace and some flair, especially with Wilmott and Kiddy and these three should be picked from the beginning of the year and given some time to gel.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Big call, but I would rather Kiddy in the back 6 then Rich, whilst Kiddy does have some defensive lapses his offence and kicking makes up for that, but I don't believe we can have Rich with his defensive lapses and lack of speed, but extremely unlikely Rich won't be picked. Wilmott showed more than enough and it is time for Payne to be given first crack for 2023.

My back 7
Starc, Andrews, Adams/Gardiner(prefer Adams)
Kiddy, Payne, Wilmott/Answerth
Rich or McKenna

I like the line of Kiddy, Payne, Wlmott, whilst it is inexperienced to some degree, IMO it provides pace and some flair, especially with Wilmott and Kiddy and these three should be picked from the beginning of the year and given some time to gel.

If I was a betting man, Answerth will start in our Best 22 in 2023 (as one of Fages favourite) but as time goes on, I hope Wilmot takes his spot in the side, while McKenna will most likely replace Rich in 2024 providing he doesn’t get homesick and is still at the level he was at Essendon in the past.

Whereas the rest of the lineup in general for 2023 and beyond, I hope Fages and the coaches start managing veteran players much better as it became so obvious at the end of the season that players like Lyons, Rich & Zorko had constant injury niggles and should have been managed and replaced by younger players starving for opportunities throughout the year.

 

[Nunez]

Starce Adams Gardiner
Rich Andrews Coleman
McKenna McCluggage Berry
McInerney Neale Dunkley
Bailey Hipwood Rayner
Gunston Daniher Cameron
Int: Zorko, McCarthy, Ashcroft, Robertson

Next in line: Ah Chee, Lyons, Wilmott, Lohmann

 

[Dalions]

Big call, but I would rather Kiddy in the back 6 then Rich, whilst Kiddy does have some defensive lapses his offence and kicking makes up for that, but I don't believe we can have Rich with his defensive lapses and lack of speed, but extremely unlikely Rich won't be picked. Wilmott showed more than enough and it is time for Payne to be given first crack for 2023.

My back 7
Starc, Andrews, Adams/Gardiner(prefer Adams)
Kiddy, Payne, Wilmott/Answerth
Rich or McKenna

I like the line of Kiddy, Payne, Wlmott, whilst it is inexperienced to some degree, IMO it provides pace and some flair, especially with Wilmott and Kiddy and these three should be picked from the beginning of the year and given some time to gel.

I do feel as though our scoring potential doubles when Kiddy has the ball kicking out of defence as opposed to Rich.
Kiddy is much more likely to take the harder 45 degree attacking kick with Rich much more likely to kick long down the line.
So Kiddy for me has become much more valuable in the back half imo.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

McKenna means Wilmot misses out imo.

Our defence is really well balanced now. I back Rich to have a strong pre season and find some form. He has been at it too long to give up now. He is a professional and will find a way to go all the way in this team.

 

[T Rick]

It was apparent this year that Kiddy is a gun BUT he also has an issue with his motor. If he can’t fix that, he might well have Wilmott take his spot now we have McKenna as well.

Kiddy's disposal is truly elite - almost everytime he gets the ball it results in a scoring shot. He has become very important to our team and his match fitness will only get better and better.

 

[Section 5]

We are in an excellent position list wise prior to round 1 baring injuries
In my opinion, it's just that 1 wing spot up in the air
McCluggage back to the wing would solve that issue, but i don't think they will go that way
Maybe McKenna was sounded out about a change of position but that also is unlikely
Did not consider Lyons as he may not be ready by round 1

Team 1 unlikely with McCluggage on wing

Starce Adams Gardiner
Rich Andrews Coleman
McCluggage Robertson Berry
McInerney Neale Dunkley
Bailey Hipwood Rayner
Gunston Daniher Cameron

Int: Zorko (F/M), McCarthy (F), Ashcroft (W/M), McKenna (D)

Team 2 more likely

Starce Adams Gardiner
Rich Andrews Coleman
?? Wing- McCluggage Berry
McInerney Neale Dunkley
Bailey Hipwood Rayner
Gunston Daniher Cameron

Int: Zorko (F/M), McCarthy (F), Ashcroft (W/M), McKenna (D)

?? Wing: One of Robertson, Prior, Ah Chee, Tunstill, Answerth, Fletcher, Madden, Sharp
Maybe Bailey but i don't think playing him on the wing improves us overall.

Back up depth: Lucky for us we have quite a few now

 

[jjami15]

Kiddy's disposal is truly elite - almost everytime he gets the ball it results in a scoring shot. He has become very important to our team and his match fitness will only get better and better.

Kiddy had an interrupted pre-season last year (as did Rich). I am hoping that both are able to have a better pre-season. Would love to hear from others what they have seen from Kiddy on the track and what type of trainer he is. He is young and the value of gains at his age is really important with pre-seasons.

It will be interesting to see the make up of our ‘best 22’ next year. Fagan has shown in the past a reluctance to move on from his favourites IMO. I would like to think that it will be a blank slate this year and each spot is up for grabs. Make the boys hungry and go out and get it.

 

[Pride of lions]

I would have Payne in before Gardiner and maybe even Adams. He has never had a decent run of games and if he doesn’t get one next season he will surely look elsewhere. It’s very hard to get confidence when you get the chop after 2 or 3 games when others get countless opportunities no matter how poorly they are going, Gardiner being a prime example imo.

 

[briztoon]

I would have Payne in before Gardiner and maybe even Adams. He has never had a decent run of games and if he doesn’t get one next season he will surely look elsewhere. It’s very hard to get confidence when you get the chop after 2 or 3 games when others get countless opportunities no matter how poorly they are going, Gardiner being a prime example imo.

For me, it’s not about looking elsewhere. (There is that too btw)

There comes a point where continued improvement will only occur at the highest level, being exposed to the speed of the game, and playing your role in the system at that level.

He might yet fail at the highest level, but we won’t really know until he gets a full season there.

 

[On the quiet]

I would have Payne in before Gardiner and maybe even Adams. He has never had a decent run of games and if he doesn’t get one next season he will surely look elsewhere. It’s very hard to get confidence when you get the chop after 2 or 3 games when others get countless opportunities no matter how poorly they are going, Gardiner being a prime example imo.

Would like to see Wilmott, Kiddy and Payne all playing on the same line in defence. Expect some errors, but if they can gel and reach their potential, they could all be with the Lions for the next 8 to 10 years.

If Payne is given 'first crack' at the start of the year and if at the bye round it appears he is not up to it, then we know and goodbye.
Wilmott showed enough for me in some high pressure finals, and I like his confidence and expect improvement from him this year.

McKenna should not just walk into the team, but likely does.
Gardiner should not just be an automatic pick but having just signed a 3 or 4 year deal he likely is.
Lyons should not just automatically come back in the team at the expense of Dev but he likely does when fit.

 

[On the quiet]

For me, it’s not about looking elsewhere. (There is that too btw)

There comes a point where continued improvement will only occur at the highest level, being exposed to the speed of the game, and playing your role in the system at that level.

He might yet fail at the highest level, but we won’t really know until he gets a full season there.

Been saying that Payne is not marking a Wright or a Hawkins or a McKay type player in the VFL. Likewise with Tom Fullarton not being marked by a McGovern or Taylor etc. So not being matched up consistently against quality KPP. Match sims at training won't do anything to help them develop some aggression. Usually KPP take a little longer to develop and Payne and Fullarton came via slightly different pathways (athletics and Basketball).

I watched a bit of VFL and was overall a little disappointed with the quality of the overall depth among some of the teams. The sooner a proper national reserve grade comp is established that replicates the AFL draw and means that young players on AFL lists get to consistently train and travel with the senior side on the same day and to the same location, the better.

 

[Section 5]

Been saying that Payne is not marking a Wright or a Hawkins or a McKay type player in the VFL. Likewise with Tom Fullarton not being marked by a McGovern or Taylor etc. So not being matched up consistently against quality KPP. Match sims at training won't do anything to help them develop some aggression. Usually KPP take a little longer to develop and Payne and Fullarton came via slightly different pathways (athletics and Basketball).

I watched a bit of VFL and was overall a little disappointed with the quality of the overall depth among some of the teams. The sooner a proper national reserve grade comp is established that replicates the AFL draw and means that young players on AFL lists get to consistently train and travel with the senior side on the same day and to the same location, the better.

Regarding the bolded
The VFL is as close as your are going to get to a national reserves competition and keep costs down to a reasonable level

4 AFL teams are missing from SA & WA:- WCE, Fremantle, Crows & Port Adelaide
3 AFL/VFL aligned clubs:- Sandringham (St Kilda), Box Hill (Hawthorn) and Casey (Melbourne) Premiers in 2022
11 AFL reserves teams: Cats, Pies, Tigers, Dogs, Bombers, Nth, Blues, GWS, Swans, Suns & Lions

7 other teams (H&A):- Southport(3rd), Werribee(10), Port Melbourne(16), Frankston(17), Coburg(19), Williamstown(20), Northern Bullants(21)
21 teams in total

The 7 other teams do dilute the competition a bit as can be seen by their final H&A ladder position
But i think the 2 northern states are happy enough not to have trips to SA & WA during the year

 

[lionshine]

B Starevich Andrews Adams
HB Coleman Payne Rich
C McKenna McCluggage Berry
HF Rayner Hipwood Bailey
F Cameron Daniher Gunston
R McInerney Neale Dunkley
I Fort Robertson Ashcroft McCarthy Zorko

Key Depth: Ah Chee, Wilmot, Prior, Gardiner, Lyons, Lohmann, Answerth, Fullarton

Extended depth: Lester, Mathieson, Tunstill, Fletcher, McDowell-White, Madden, Cockatoo, Sharp, Smith, Lane, Michael, Coleman

I am assuming the sub rule gets abolished in favour of a 5 man bench. I really wanted to fit Wilmot, Prior and Lohmann into the side but couldn't manage to do so. You'd think Wilmot and Lohmann or Prior are the logical replacements for Rich and Zorko beyond next season. I wouldn't be surprised if Lyons and Gardiner are preferred in favour of Dev and Payne but I think Dev and Payne give our best 22 more upside in terms of the roles they can play.

If Ah Chee/Answerth, Lyons and Gardiner were preferred over say Ashcroft, Dev and Payne it is exciting how much young talent we have pushing for a best 22 spot in Ashcroft, Wilmot, Payne, Dev, Lohmann and Prior. That group is quality.

 

[twhowler]

McKenna is great news just because it at the very least adds a player to our list of AFL standard players. I reckon this makes a big difference - Geelong had easily the highest number this year, look at their emergencies list in the the granny, would play in any other side.

I have only listed depth below that i think could make a decent contribution in round 1. So players that could play next year but i have not put in depth include Madden, B Coleman, Fletcher, Tunstill, Michael.

BACK 7: TALLS Gardiner / Andrews / Adams. DEPTH: Payne / Lester
SMALLS / MIDS Starcevich / Coleman / Rich / Wilmot DEPTH: McKenna / Answerth

MIDS 7: ON-BALL Neale / McCluggage / Dunkley / Roberston DEPTH Lyons
WING: Berry / Bailey / Ashcroft DEPTH Ah Chee / Prior

FORWARD 7: TALLS: Hipwood / Daniher / Gunston DEPTH: ??
SMALLS / MIDS: Cameron / Rayner / Zorko / McCarthy DEPTH: Lohman / Cockatoo

RUCK: McInerney DEPTH Fort

I would say players really unlucky to be playing round 1 include Payne, Prior, Ah Chee and Fort. That would be a heck of a starting emergency list.

We have great depth everywhere I think except key forwards. Fort could step in. Fullarton next. Then maybe Henry Smith. Depending on their development i suspect we will be hunting for a key forward next draft / trade period, even just to have another one in development.

Seems AFL will have a sub again albeit not medically linked. I thought if they went to a 5 man bench we would play Fort and Oscar, but given that is not happening Fort starts outside best 23.

 

[BrizzyBandit]

Backline:
Andrews. Payne. Starcevich.
Coleman. Adams. McKenna.

We don't have a choice now, we need to bank games into Payne with both Adams and Gardiner injury prone.
Payne also frees up Andrews who defends better as a roaming defender.

Mckenna replaces Rich in the backline. Rich off-the-bench to be a weapon forward or back.

Midfield:
McCluggage. Rayner. JBerry.
McInerney. Neale. Dunkley.

Rayner is now a midfielder in my opinion. He really started to find space and time toward the end of last season.
We need his line-breaking ability in there. Dunkley on the ball with Neale with Berry and Clugga rotating through there off the wings.

Forward:
Bailey. Hipwood. Zorko.
Cameron. Daniher. Gunston.

Zorko is now a permanent forward. Brings elite tackling pressure and scoring ability.
Gunston causing headaches with his running patterns and marking/goal-scoring power.

Interchange:
Rich | Wilmot | McCarthy |Ashcroft

Rich to play the assasin's role both forward and back off the bench.
Bank games into Wilmot and Ashcroft who are essential to our future.
Mccarthy off-the-bench to provide relief across the forward line and wing.


Emergency:
AhChee A gun all over the park. Perfect sub. Will put pressure on McCarthy and others to retain their position.

Ready to Rumble any time:
Lyons, Gardiner, Answerth, Robertson, Lohmann, Prior, Fort and Mathieson and perhaps Fletcher.

 

[Warwick]

Reading these B22s (and probably more incredibly, the players that are missing) shows just how far we've come under Fagan and co.

This was the team in R1 the year before Fagan arrived:

A. Christensen
C. Beams
D. McStay
D. Rich
D. Gardiner
H. Andrews
J. Freeman
J. Schache
J. Walker
L. Taylor
M. Paparone
M. Robinson
P. Hanley
R. Bewick
R. Bastinac
R. Harwood
R. Lester
S. Mayes
S. Martin
T. Bell
T. Cutler
T. Rockliff

Realistically, the bolded would make our best team now. 2016 Hanley on a half back flank, Martin > Fort (and probably Oscar). 2016 Rich and Rockliff as midfielders - possibly (you would think at least one of them would make the bench).

 

[Dalions]

Reading these B22s (and probably more incredibly, the players that are missing) shows just how far we've come under Fagan and co.

This was the team in R1 the year before Fagan arrived:

A. Christensen
C. Beams
D. McStay
D. Rich
D. Gardiner
H. Andrews
J. Freeman
J. Schache
J. Walker
L. Taylor
M. Paparone
M. Robinson
P. Hanley
R. Bewick
R. Bastinac
R. Harwood
R. Lester
S. Mayes
S. Martin
T. Bell
T. Cutler
T. Rockliff

Only 3 players left from that team.

Edit: Sorry 4 with Lester, and Zorko must have had an injury or something?