First 23 in 2024

[Section 5]

If Rayner can take up some of McCluggage midfield time, then McCluggage can do a bit more wing time where he is quite damaging.
This could be the reason Ah Chee's TOG was very low. So, Ah Chee may not make the OR side.

HB: Coleman Andrews Wilmott
B: Starcevich Payne Lester

C: Fletcher Dunkley Berry
Foll: McInerney, Neale, McCluggage (M/W/F)

FF: Cameron, Daniher (Rel/R) Rayner (F/M)
HF: McCarthy Hipwood Gardiner

Bench: Lohmann (W/F/M), McKenna (D), Bailey (F/M), Zorko (F/M)
Sub Lyons (100th Lions Game)

Emer: Dev, Ah Chee, Tunstill - Prior/Madden/Answerth (McKenna)

 

[Section 5]

Yeah Tunstill disappointed me last night. Seemed to struggle with the speed of the game which is a worry because I didn't think it was that quick. Lohmann ahead of him for mine as well.

My one caveat on Lohmann is he had 7 touches in the first quarter, 4 in the 2nd, 3 in the 3rd and only 2 in the last. 4 of his 6 tackles came in the first quarter also. So he did fade out of the game in that sense.

Regarding Lohmann
He did get his touches when the game was close.
I always give credit to players that are involved more in the first half of the game especially when they have less experience.
He had to perform well to make a play for an OR spot.
So better to get noticed early and fade a bit especially in hot slippery conditions.

 

[martinson]

Yeah Tunstill disappointed me last night. Seemed to struggle with the speed of the game which is a worry because I didn't think it was that quick. Lohmann ahead of him for mine as well.

My one caveat on Lohmann is he had 7 touches in the first quarter, 4 in the 2nd, 3 in the 3rd and only 2 in the last. 4 of his 6 tackles came in the first quarter also. So he did fade out of the game in that sense.

I want to get a look at Lohmann in a real game with genuine pressure before having any opinion . Last night you're in a team where a lot of your players are subconsciously looking after themselves and the ones trying to break in all started exceptionally well as you'd expect . Except Madden.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I want to get a look at Lohmann in a real game with genuine pressure before having any opinion . Last night you're in a team where a lot of your players are subconsciously looking after themselves and the ones trying to break in all started exceptionally well as you'd expect . Except Madden.

Yeah for some reason Madden's decision making has just stood out this summer as being just so slow. It's almost as though the game has gone past him since he made his debut in 2021.

 

[dlanod]

Yeah Tunstill disappointed me last night. Seemed to struggle with the speed of the game which is a worry because I didn't think it was that quick. Lohmann ahead of him for mine as well.

My one caveat on Lohmann is he had 7 touches in the first quarter, 4 in the 2nd, 3 in the 3rd and only 2 in the last. 4 of his 6 tackles came in the first quarter also. So he did fade out of the game in that sense.

The 23rd-26th players only rotated on with about five or so minutes left in the second, and then played about a third of the 3rd and about 50% of the 4th (because of the shortened length) so everyone's TOG dropped significantly in the 3rd and 4th compared to the 1st.

 

[3KZ is Football]

FF: Cameron Daniher Rayner
HF: McCarthy Hipwood Bailey
C: Fletcher Dunkley Berry
HB: Coleman Andrews Wilmott
B: Starcevich Payne Lester
Foll: McInerney McCluggage Neale
Bench: Lohmann, McKenna/Ah Chee, Gardiner, Zorko
Sub: Ah Chee/Tunstill

This is just about spot on, but I would tinker with the Interchange, Sub and some positional decisions, subject to how Carlton line up:

I would go with

FF: Cameron Daniher Rayner
HF: McCarthy Hipwood Bailey
C: Fletcher Dunkley Berry
HB: Coleman Lester Wilmott
B: Starcevich Andrews Payne
Foll: McInerney McCluggage Neale
I/C: McKenna, Ah Chee, Lyons, Zorko
Sub: Gardiner

 

[mpal6]

This is just about spot on, but I would tinker with the Interchange, Sub and some positional decisions, subject to how Carlton line up:

I would go with

FF: Cameron Daniher Rayner
HF: McCarthy Hipwood Bailey
C: Fletcher Dunkley Berry
HB: Coleman Lester Wilmott
B: Starcevich Andrews Payne
Foll: McInerney McCluggage Neale
I/C: McKenna, Ah Chee, Lyons, Zorko
Sub: Gardiner

Gardiner will be on the ground in my view, not sub.

Even in the last practice you can see him doing the Gunners role of the past, was putting pressure on key backs, stopping them from marking the ball as well as dropping back in last 2-3 minutes to help defense. Fagan wants to use that "drop extra player in defense at the end of quarter" card and in Gardiner he has found the perfect player for it.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Gardiner will be on the ground in my view, not sub.

Even in the last practice you can see him doing the Gunners role of the past, was putting pressure on key backs, stopping them from marking the ball as well as dropping back in last 2-3 minutes to help defense. Fagan wants to use that "drop extra player in defense at the end of quarter" card and in Gardiner he has found the perfect player for it.

Could be right there, in terms of Fagan’s thinking, but I worry about that approach. It failed in the Grand Final, failed against Melbourne at the MCG last year as it fails to take advantage of our tremendous ball winning and offensive potential. It is a conservative ‘old man’ tactic. I know martinson has pointed this out a fair bit and I agree.

When Brisbane was winning Premierships we were famous for kicking ‘junk time’ goals, often two or three late in terms. We were looking to attack and take advantage of teams that were trying to put the shutters up with 3 or 4 minutes left in a quarter, just like Collingwood did to us in the Grand Final.

Fagan’s big flaw is his inflexibility and the idea of Gardiner playing forward combines two of his dogmas:
1. That we benefit from having a disruptive forward whose role is to not kick goals or necessarily mark the ball, but simply contest and bring it to ground.
2. That dropping a forward back late in quarters is better than prioritising winning possession and hitting the scoreboard.

People are going to get very tired of Gardiner playing forward, getting 3 or 4 disposals a game and not kicking goals. They will say, “but he is playing his role” and employ the flawed logic that it is smart to select a forward with limited goal scoring capacity. They will also forget that we already have Hipwood, Daniher and Rayner, all of whom are capable of marking or making a contest that brings the ball to ground for McCarthy, Cameron and Bailey.

At least McStay could be counted on for just under a goal a game and he had the capacity to get on long leads up the ground.

If I had to choose between McCrae and Fagan as Coach, I’d choose McCrae every time.

 

[M Malice]

Gardiner will be on the ground in my view, not sub.

Even in the last practice you can see him doing the Gunners role of the past, was putting pressure on key backs, stopping them from marking the ball as well as dropping back in last 2-3 minutes to help defense. Fagan wants to use that "drop extra player in defense at the end of quarter" card and in Gardiner he has found the perfect player for it.

The bolded is bewildering to me, it is not working for us particularly against the better sides ie. the GF.

We are inviting sides to attack us... being a Soccer follower it reminds me of late in games when a side with a 1 goal lead will "park the bus", which is dropping all their players back to just out side the 18 yard box in 2 lines of 5 players to defend the lead, this invites pressure and in an extraordinary amount of instances they are scored against late.

 

[3KZ is Football]

The bolded is bewildering to me, it is not working for us particularly against the better sides ie. the GF.

We are inviting sides to attack us... being a Soccer follower it reminds me of late in games when a side with a 1 goal lead will "park the bus", which is dropping all their players back to just out side the 18 yard box in 2 lines of 5 players to defend the lead, this invites pressure and in an extraordinary amount of instances they are scored against late.

100% Correct.

I have to admit, any mention of ‘The Gunston Role’ sends a shiver up my spine.
As best as I can tell, the ‘Gunston Role’ last year was to wander about the forward line picking up ‘cheapies’, to miss tackles and watch opponents run off you, before being dropped and then ‘rolling’ out the door after a Fagan inspired season that left everyone scratching their heads, laughing, crying or all three simultaneously.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Gardiner will be on the ground in my view, not sub.

Even in the last practice you can see him doing the Gunners role of the past, was putting pressure on key backs, stopping them from marking the ball as well as dropping back in last 2-3 minutes to help defense. Fagan wants to use that "drop extra player in defense at the end of quarter" card and in Gardiner he has found the perfect player for it.

You just had to reply.....

 

[3KZ is Football]

You just had to reply.....

Hey Nathan, I hope you had a good summer. I’m looking forward to the season and I know you are too. Looking forward to ‘locking horns’, but I’m always going to give you a big thumbs up for your passion and love of the Lions.

 

[scoman]

I'm a bit worried our change ups will result in us back where we were mid season last year. Rayner into the middle is great, but he doesn't add much defensively there. Will Gardiner and Zorko add defensive pressure to our forward line? Can Tunstil and Lohman bring what Ah Chee and Dev did?

I don't know, I'm confident on our chances this year, but our ability to shut down teams who outwork us by spreading from the contest is my biggest concern.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I'm a bit worried our change ups will result in us back where we were mid season last year. Rayner into the middle is great, but he doesn't add much defensively there. Will Gardiner and Zorko add defensive pressure to our forward line? Can Tunstil and Lohman bring what Ah Chee and Dev did?

I don't know, I'm confident on our chances this year, but our ability to shut down teams who outwork us by spreading from the contest is my biggest concern.a

I think that’s the positive of adding Gardiner is that he would add defensive pressure

Zorko will get the oppositions best offensive defender each week who will run off him and hurt us though. Needs to be damaging with the ball to break even

 

[martinson]

I'm on the fence with Gardiner playing forward but he's a long way ahead of Gunners in terms of defensive pressure.

In terms of him playing forward then dropping back to defence for the last 2-3 minutes of every quarter we all know what Einstein defined stupidity as......

Ah Chee has brought outstanding defensive pressure every time he's played forward. He can also mark over his head. We're trying to find a spot for Gardiner because when Doedee turns up he won't have one. At least he has more hope of bringing the ball to ground and not infringing in the forward line than he did in the backline. I can see it's worth a shot but I'm a bit sceptical as to whether he'll have the zip against the better backlines. Still he won't die wondering.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I'm on the fence with Gardiner playing forward but he's a long way ahead of Gunners in terms of defensive pressure.

In terms of him playing forward then dropping back to defence for the last 2-3 minutes of every quarter we all know what Einstein defined stupidity as......

Ah Chee has brought outstanding defensive pressure every time he's played forward. He can also mark over his head. We're trying to find a spot for Gardiner because when Doedee turns up he won't have one. At least he has more hope of bringing the ball to ground and not infringing in the forward line than he did in the backline. I can see it's worth a shot but I'm a bit sceptical as to whether he'll have the zip against the better backlines. Still he won't die wondering.

Nailed it.

 

[mpal6]

I'm on the fence with Gardiner playing forward but he's a long way ahead of Gunners in terms of defensive pressure.

In terms of him playing forward then dropping back to defence for the last 2-3 minutes of every quarter we all know what Einstein defined stupidity as......

Ah Chee has brought outstanding defensive pressure every time he's played forward. He can also mark over his head. We're trying to find a spot for Gardiner because when Doedee turns up he won't have one. At least he has more hope of bringing the ball to ground and not infringing in the forward line than he did in the backline. I can see it's worth a shot but I'm a bit sceptical as to whether he'll have the zip against the better backlines. Still he won't die wondering.

King Dizzy will shut you all up with a 5 goal opening round return.

All hail the new King !

 

[mpal6]

I feel Gardiner is going to surprise us all by becoming a Mihocek type workhorse forward. Do all the right things, bring the ball to ground, chase, tackle, compete and create for the smalls. If he marks and kick goals along the way, even better.

I look forward to the middle of the year discussion about how we'd rather play Gardiner + one of the talls in Daniher / Hipwood as Dizzy has become a major weapon on his own. This forum has done a 180 before on many other topics, I hope Dizzy's success to be one of them.

 

[martinson]

I feel Gardiner is going to surprise us all by becoming a Mihocek type workhorse forward. Do all the right things, bring the ball to ground, chase, tackle, compete and create for the smalls. If he marks and kick goals along the way, even better.

I look forward to the middle of the year discussion about how we'd rather play Gardiner + one of the talls in Daniher / Hipwood as Dizzy has become a major weapon on his own. This forum has done a 180 before on many other topics, I hope Dizzy's success to be one of them.

With Weitering out it's a great opportunity for the third banana to present as a marking option.

As far as I can tell most people here think moving him forward is a good idea. I don't think there's any danger of him becoming a Mihocek though. That's a big reach.

 

[McIvor]

Yeah for some reason Madden's decision making has just stood out this summer as being just so slow. It's almost as though the game has gone past him since he made his debut in 2021.

I’ve been genuinely surprised that Madden has been kept on as long as he has. At no stage have I ever thought he’s AFL standard and I still maintain that. I’d be even more stunned if he was on the list this time next year.

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

Bloody tough to fit everybody given no injuries. I couldn’t find space for some very good players.
FB: Wilmot, Andrews, Starcevic

HB: Coleman, Payne, Doedee

C: Fletcher, Neale, McLuggage

HFCameron, Hipwood, Rayner

FF: McCarthy, Daniher, Gardiner

Fol: McInerney, Ashcroft, Dunkley

Int: Bailey, McKenna, Ah Chee, Lester, Zorko