Opinion First Choice Ruck - Pitto vs TDK

[Juddernaut08]

TDK with SOS as a 70/30 split is by far our best ruck combination.

We have a unique opportunity to build a game plan around this.
TDKs athleticism and genuine fwd craft alongside SOS, who whilst isn’t going to win the tap outs (which is so overrated it’s not funny), has proven he can impact the ruck contest enough to make sure that while the opposition ruckman still gets first hands to it, it isn’t directed with enough accuracy to consistently and genuinely impact the game. His follow up work is the best in the competition as a ruck. SOS is an overgrown genuine mid, who is too slow (relatively speaking) to consistently play midfield. But, relative to ruckman he isn’t. He’s a dynamic, competitive beast, with elite decision making and hand/foot skills.

As mentioned above, we have a unique opportunity with this set up. In this completion, the team that wins it all, is the team that can think of a new idea/game plan first, and then implement it better than anyone else. This is our opportunity to do that.

love this. we saw jsos be used effectively for periods last season.

he looked bad when forced to play majority of the game there, but for 5 mins a quarter he could really be useful. has advantages over the slower rucks, and we can position our stoppge setups to counter the probable hitout losses

TDK improved his marking dramatically in 2021. would love to see him 2022 with a clean bill of health and another preseason into his lanky bod

 

[gbatman]

TDK is a fine young developing ruck who is on the verge of maturing. Pittonet is high quality for a reserve ruckman. I wouldn't play them both, SOS was good as a pinch hitter, we need to use our rucks as a kick behind play in a defensive role. Need to fix the midfield, quicker, harder and more intense, then the ruck won't be so crucial. McKay to take ruck in forward 50.

 

[Gethelred]

TDK as the head ruck, Jack as the chopout; you could even make the argument that the stoppages around the ground (the ones in which you are not limited by 6-6-6) you could just run him as the main for as long as you like provided he's halving the clearances (as opposed to the hitouts).

You must have TDK/Pittonett/Young in a centre stoppage; HO to advantage are more valuable straight out of 6-6-6.

 

[Blue train 28]

I think TDK is a huge talent and should hopefully develop into something special. But I still think Pitto is in front of him as a ruckman, to early on to say but it Tom can have a huge preseason well he’ll take that mantle over.

 

[Benga]

TDK as the head ruck, Jack as the chopout; you could even make the argument that the stoppages around the ground (the ones in which you are not limited by 6-6-6) you could just run him as the main for as long as you like provided he's halving the clearances (as opposed to the hitouts).

You must have TDK/Pittonett/Young in a centre stoppage; HO to advantage are more valuable straight out of 6-6-6.

1000%

Jack has more potential than a pinch hit/5 minutes a quarter ruck. He moved into a position that he’s literally never played or trained for and looked dynamic… I mean he hasn’t even trained as a mid really either.

We already run a midfield that you wouldn’t even back against a glacier in a 100m sprint. The difference in putting in Pittonet, who is arguably the slowest per position across the competition, and playing SOS, who would be up there as the most dynamic, is vast.

 

[branedotorg]

Pitt isn't as athletic as TDK but I expect him to be no1 at the start of the season.

Hoping some more mature/less aggressive stoppage setups will stop him (and Cripps) being exposed as much.

 

[LanceRomance]

Aside from Richmond, I feel like most clubs play two rucks - with different skill sets

Melbourne used expert Ruck Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

and had Luke jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

23

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

as back up (but he is more of a forward)
Dogs had English and Sylvia as back up

I feel like Pitt probably needs to become more effective up forward - or Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

27

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

needs to spend more time rucking.

 

[Magruder]

Pittonet has an edge in strength and will likely get games where the opp have a noted lump like Darcy, or where TDK is flagging.

But I reckon we will look to get as much time and work into Tom as humanly possible.

Chop out will be Young, JSOS, Cripps on limited minutes.

 

[ferrisb]

TDK with SOS as a 70/30 split is by far our best ruck combination.

We have a unique opportunity to build a game plan around this.
TDKs athleticism and genuine fwd craft alongside SOS, who whilst isn’t going to win the tap outs (which is so overrated it’s not funny), has proven he can impact the ruck contest enough to make sure that while the opposition ruckman still gets first hands to it, it isn’t directed with enough accuracy to consistently and genuinely impact the game. His follow up work is the best in the competition as a ruck. SOS is an overgrown genuine mid, who is too slow (relatively speaking) to consistently play midfield. But, relative to ruckman he isn’t. He’s a dynamic, competitive beast, with elite decision making and hand/foot skills.

As mentioned above, we have a unique opportunity with this set up. In this completion, the team that wins it all, is the team that can think of a new idea/game plan first, and then implement it better than anyone else. This is our opportunity to do that.

JSOS's cameo in the ruck was one of my footy highlights of 2021.

I'd love it to form part of a unique ruck approach as you described, but I am not sold on him becoming a long-term (part-time) solution.

Happy to see us try out the TDK/JSOS combo, but once opposition teams start planning for it, it could all come crashing down.

Maybe JSOS takes fwd 50 ruck contests and TDK stays a kick behind play. Stealing Blue Bloods idea for TDK plus Hawkins-esque backup, but choosing JSOS instead of Harry...

 

[Faz 2000]

I suspect we'll play both until TDK is fit and strong enough to ruck most of the game on his own, supported by pinch-hitters.

Pittonet doesn't have AFL-level athleticism, so he's going to need to be really physical to justify his existence. Tackle hard, bang bodies, sit in the hole behind the play, etc. Old school ruck things. If he can't do that he won't play.

I don't like the idea of JSOS or Cripps playing any ruck minutes, other than the occasional throw-in. I don't like the non-ruck playing ruck setup that Richmond did. Feels like the exception rather than the rule. Makes a mockery of the position.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Pitto just doesn't have ruck craft. He taps out to the opposition advantage way too often.

TDK is still developing but should be our #1 ruck going forward. Will develop into a star. Just needs some support whilst he matures.

Pitto should only be a backup.

 

[gbatman]

The thing about playing two ruckmen is that one has to be able to play as a forward or you are pretty much selecting one player to play very small minutes at the expense of rotations in other areas.

Pittonet doesn't appear to have a great deal of capabilities as a forward but he is a good all round ruckman. Good in hitouts, ground work and positioning around the ground. DeKoning has shown some potential as a forward but has a fair way to go in terms of being good enough to play as a forward, even as a forward who rucks, his marking needs to improve. Then say if it does, we look at potentially being too tall up forward with Curnow, McKay, Silvagni/McGovern and a ruck there.

Problem is with our team we have a lot of players who are good when the ball is put to their advantage and no good when it's not so we've been noticing ruck influence too much in recent seasons. Good midfields still benefit from hitouts but it's not overly important as long as the ruckman is competitive and plays his role around the ground.

I see DeKoning as a guy who will be fairly decent in the ruck without dominating and good around the ground, whether that be going forward, sitting back and in contests.

What DeKoning needs is a preseason and no injury hiccups. So far he hasn't had that but hopefully this year that changes.

 

[Benga]

JSOS's cameo in the ruck was one of my footy highlights of 2021.

I'd love it to form part of a unique ruck approach as you described, but I am not sold on him becoming a long-term (part-time) solution.

Happy to see us try out the TDK/JSOS combo, but once opposition teams start planning for it, it could all come crashing down.

Maybe JSOS takes fwd 50 ruck contests and TDK stays a kick behind play. Stealing Blue Bloods idea for TDK plus Hawkins-esque backup, but choosing JSOS instead of Harry...

what would that look like? They’re already going up against him assuming they’re going to win the tap, which they most likely will. Their mids are already assuming they’re going to get it down their throats.

Opposition could try and drag him fwd, sure, I’d still back SOS to defend against opp ruckman over Pitto. If that doesn’t sit well, then reshuffle the deck chairs, Young takes the resting ruck, Sos takes his man.

 

[CJMB]

I mentioned my thoughts on this in another thread, but here they are again.

If Pitto plays, then he has to be the primary ruck, spending about 80% TOG or so there and pretty much resting on the bench. He's pretty useless as a forward, could maybe have a couple of minutes parked in the square but you don't want him getting in the way of Harry/Charlie/Gov/SOS/Martin/any-of-our-other-fwds...

If Pitto is ruck, then TDK has to play, and he'll probably be a CHF (or similar) who does the 20% relief rucking. Not sure if that's going to fast track his development as a ruckman. It also pushes Charlie to the 3rd tall (which could be a good thing?) but the flow-on from that is fitting Jack & Gov in a fwd line with two 2m+ guys and Charlie.

Unless Voss & Hansen want land of the giants up forward then this might be unrealistic without Gov going back, Jack plays more mid, one or both miss out, etc.

My personal preference is for TDK to be the main ruck and Pitto is his backup (in the reserves).

To me it makes sense that Young, who at first I wasn't really considering best 22, at least this year, has the ability to play as the 3rd tall down back and step up as the relief ruckman.

Could see Young taking the centre square duties and anything from the centre>back, while Jack takes some forward of centre and I think Harry/Cripps should be trying to emulate Hawkins near goals.

It's hard to speculate, as it ties back in to overall team structure, and I imagine Voss comes with one of those 'clean slate' approaches to the team, where being in Teague's best 22 doesn't guarantee you anything. If Voss & Hammill opt for a faster/more mobile back half with the three genuine talls (ie Weitering, Jones, Young, Williams, Saad, Stocker/Kemp/Williamson/etc) and there's plenty of run in the midfield (ie Cripps the only big body, Kennedy replaced by Philp, etc) then they might be more comfortable with having 2 rucks & 3 tall fwds.

Until we start seeing those preseason scratch match lineups it's going to be hard to know exactly what the preference is. But I'm really hoping it involves De Koning starting the game in the centre square as the big dog.

 

[BluStreak]

Need Mumford to coach some aggression into them both. A limited ruckman who made his presence felt on the field.
Given that they are both more talented than Mummy but need to influence their opposite number.
TDK needs more strength so that he is not push around so much.

 

[thylacine60]

I just don't reckon you can add a dose of mongrel into a player like a sprinkle of chillie in a recipe.

 

[BluStreak]

If you make them mad enough it will

 

[bmaurizio]

Pitto just doesn't have ruck craft. He taps out to the opposition advantage way too often.

TDK is still developing but should be our #1 ruck going forward. Will develop into a star. Just needs some support whilst he matures.

Pitto should only be a backup.

Quality ruck work is unique requires, aerobic capacity , footy IQ , skill & real physical presence too . Not easy to find all characteristics in one players thence the scarcity. A great full time ruckman is rare and immensely important.

 

[Donnini]

No contest - TDK is a developing ruck and will surpass Pitto one day. Just turned 25 and still 2-3 years away from his peak. 202cm + 101kg He's massive

 

[bmaurizio]

I just don't reckon you can add a dose of mongrel into a player like a sprinkle of chillie in a recipe.

Absolutely agree just as in skill type , footy IQ, good aerobic capacity & endurance , or any of the specialist traits in footy, one either has it or not.
Therefore end season 2022 with 12 players becoming OOC I’m expecting a big list shake up.

 

[bmaurizio]

No contest - TDK is a developing ruck and will surpass Pitto one day. Just turned 25 and still 2-3 years away from his peak. 202cm + 101kg He's massive

Agree it’s obvious, TDK is maturing his athleticism is unique for his height but meanwhile light easily pushed off the ball and AFL fitness is lacking too.
Hence his support work mostly , Aggression unfortunately is not part of either ruckmen’s skill set and can’t be taught.

 

[Donnini]

Agree it’s obvious, TDK is maturing his athleticism is unique for his height but meanwhile light easily pushed off the ball and AFL fitness is lacking too.
Hence his support work mostly , Aggression unfortunately is not part of either ruckmen’s skill set and can’t be taught.

Most elite ruckmen aren't aggressive like Gawn for example. Mumford and Darcy are rare.

 

[Gethelred]

I just don't reckon you can add a dose of mongrel into a player like a sprinkle of chillie in a recipe.

I genuinely disagree. Just, I don't think it's a good thing to harden a human being that way.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Id be happy if he could win the hit outs in a couple of matches.

Why?
Bulldogs were one of the best teams most of the year and just came runners up in the grand final. They were 3rd last for hitouts this year. Melbourne were first. Dogs averaged 16 hitouts less than the Dees and both made it to the last game. In 2020 they were dead last for hitouts, averaging half of what top placed Collingwood got.

Personally, I'd run with TDK as the main ruck. Get Jones to chop out with some contests in defensive 50 (or Young if he earns a spot) and Harry to do half a dozen or so in forward 50. When TDK is on the bench, SOS can take the centre bounces.
They only need to take around 5-6 contests each.

 

[Justnetime]

I just don't reckon you can add a dose of mongrel into a player like a sprinkle of chillie in a recipe.

I feel Cotchin added hardness with a little side dish of nastiness Post 25/26. This is what Cripps needs to do Going forward. I just can’t see TDK doing it as he sits so far on the other end of that spectrum.