Opinion First Choice Ruck - Pitto vs TDK

[gbatman]

How well DeKoning goes against the better rucks of the game is the question. At this stage he's not the best ruckman but he's getting better. Better around the ground. I think it will be TDK and SOS in the ruck. But you can't have what we had in the prelim final where Pitto got smashed to the point it hamstrung our mids pretty badly.

TDK, because he can jump, may become a better nullifier than Pitto. Neither are going to be real dominant rucks, both in my eyes are nullifying rucks.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

The question isn’t just purely about the ruck.. If Pitto & TDK are the model then there is no spot in the side for JSOS.. so are we better as a unit playing TDK and JSOS.. IMO yes.. Pitto was okay at the back end of the year and finals, but will okay cut it.. If TDK can have a huge preseason then he could take 80% of the ruck and then Jack covers the other 20.. Pittos lack of versatility will be his detriment, if he isn’t rucking for at least 60% of the game, we can’t be playing him.. It was arguable at the end of the season who was the better centre square ruck out of him and TDK, the moment TDK becomes clearly better then it’s a no brainer.

 

[Blue By Blood]

We really need Harry to learn some ruck craft so we get a chop out like Brisbane do with Daniher for instance. It would allow us to be more mobile and dangerous up forward.

Pittonet is so reliant on being at 100% health. When he has to play with a niggle or the knee injury he’s been carrying, it exacerbates his lack of mobility and movement around the ground.

What we have to work out and it’s still a big question for us going forward, is what our best setup is. The Pitto and TDK combo necessitates a more mobile third tall than what we have. TDK rucking with a Harry chop out would see JSOS still have a spot in the best 22.

 

[BlueJet]

IMO Pittonet when injury free is still our no. 1 ruck.
I have TDK beating out JSOS for the forward/ruck role, he showed some promise as a target against the Dees.
Good luck covering the size and athleticism of Charlie, Harry & TDK.

 

[HarryFlashman]

IMO Pittonet when injury free is still our no. 1 ruck.
I have TDK beating out JSOS for the forward/ruck role, he showed some promise as a target against the Dees.
Good luck covering the size and athleticism of Charlie, Harry & TDK.

You don’t need to cover them, they have shown to be quite effective at spoiling each other.
IMO TDK with another preseason should be good to go to ruck as the sole ruckman.
JSOS can chop out, what he bring around the ground is bloody hard to measure/quantify but there’s always a place for someone with his ability & footy iq.
We missed him late in the season & he looked to have found another gear and was killing it before he went down

 

[BlueJet]

You don’t need to cover them, they have shown to be quite effective at spoiling each other.
IMO TDK with another preseason should be good to go to ruck as the sole ruckman.
JSOS can chop out, what he bring around the ground is bloody hard to measure/quantify but there’s always a place for someone with his ability & footy iq.
We missed him late in the season & he looked to have found another gear and was killing it before he went down

With an appropriately structured forward line, they'll be drawing opponents away from one another, not toward eachother.
I get what you're saying re: JSOS but for mine, we can get similar output forward/around the ground from TDK and the two bigfellas are miles ahead in the ruck.

 

[HyphensBack]

Here is a my take on the ruck options:

1) TDK / JSOS
I prefer this option. TDK is now able to genuinely ruck 70-80% and provides a lot more around the ground. JSOS halves ruck contests but then provides something at ground level.

2) TDK / Harry
This is what I would like us to trial pre-season, it’s a bit of an extension of what we do at times, Harry taking 20% of centre ruck contests, yep I know why would we do that and risk injury to our premium forward, others do it, his head space is not good, get him doing this. Some then ask why not just play Jack, and I like Jack, but I would like us with this option to trial Kemp up forward, if he is not guaranteed key back due to March, play him as our swing Key Back/Forward.

3) Pitto / TDK
This is our current preferred by the coaching panel and to be fair TDK is offering more as a forward but Pitto only halves ruck contests and provides nothing around the ground. I say we bring Pitto in only for emergency or ruck brutes. To me this option means JSOS doesn’t play, we need more forward mobility

 

[JuddgementDay]

I see TDK tracking as per English

Whilst TDK is only drafteed one year behind English, he is actually two years younger than English.
English broke out two years ago - I see TDK breaking out in 2024 and be our main ruck, and carry the load for 85%.

Either McKay or JSOS will need to do the other 15% of ruck.

I prefer this set up for greater team mobility. Having two pure ruckman makes us too slow.
Let's go TDK!

 

[Coona Blues]

I see TDK tracking as per English

Whilst TDK is only drafteed one year behind English, he is actually two years younger than English.
English broke out two years ago - I see TDK breaking out in 2024 and be our main ruck, and carry the load for 85%.

Either McKay or JSOS will need to do the other 15% of ruck.

I prefer this set up for greater team mobility. Having two pure ruckman makes us too slow.
Let's go TDK!

I think you may be one year early for that assertion. TDK is ready to take the mantle and play bigger minutes, but I would be amazed if a season of that had him fit and firing come finals time. We are going to need rotation. 2022 almost the entire team was “cooked” come the later rounds. 2023, probably half of the team was cooked, including both rucks who had both had somewhat limited pre seasons.

The end game has to be TDK being ready to take up the mantle of 80% plus in the ruck. Should Pitto return to what he promised a couple of years ago (pre Darcy) the club has decisions to make. Potentially come 2025 more forward leaning O’Keeffe or Lemmey is ready to play a support role if that is what we choose.

2024 will clearly see a bigger presence by De Koning, but we still need to manage the players and the mix.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I think you may be one year early for that assertion. TDK is ready to take the mantle and play bigger minutes, but I would be amazed if a season of that had him fit and firing come finals time. We are going to need rotation. 2022 almost the entire team was “cooked” come the later rounds. 2023, probably half of the team was cooked, including both rucks who had both had somewhat limited pre seasons.

The end game has to be TDK being ready to take up the mantle of 80% plus in the ruck. Should Pitto return to what he promised a couple of years ago (pre Darcy) the club has decisions to make. Potentially come 2025 more forward leaning O’Keeffe or Lemmey is ready to play a support role if that is what we choose.

2024 will clearly see a bigger presence by De Koning, but we still need to manage the players and the mix.

This will be more a fitness management of the entire list to make sure we are fit and firing for finals and not stumbling to the finish line. Andrew Russell has his critics but he has experience with this, we need to bank the wins early to set ourselves in a strong position for a top 4 finish and then we can strategically rest our key assets in the back half of the year.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Main Ruck: Keep all 3 fit. Play TDK perhaps 20 regular season games. If he needs a rest play Pitto 2-3 regular season games and 0 finals.

Ruck/Fwd: See if McKay has what it takes to play 20% ruck. If we can play a more mobile forwardline built around Charlie/Harry/Martin as our marking targets + 3-4 smalls (say Hollands, Motlop, Durdin, Owies) we'll look heaps better.

If Harry doesn't work out, then play JSOS as the 20/80 ruck/fwd...and we go in taller but slower.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Pitto - #1 ruck
TDK - 3rd tall, backup ruck
SOS - ressies

 

[AB_Blue]

My 2 cents…..TDK number one ruck and a combo of McKay and Jack to pinch hit when needed.

Pitto and TDK are both number one rucks…TKD is not a forward and i think he needs to be around the ball more


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[4flagsin5yrs]

My 2 cents…..TDK number one ruck and a combo of McKay and Jack to pinch hit when needed.

Pitto and TDK are both number one rucks…TKD is not a forward and i think he needs to be around the ball more


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Disagree to a degree.

Reckon TDK will become a very capable ruck/resting forward....

Just needs to clunk his marks.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Disagree to a degree.

Reckon TDK will become a very capable ruck/resting forward....

Just needs to clunk his marks.

Think his marking will come on further this year, what I want him to learn to do is block & not give away frees.
Honestly believe he’s more useful to us learning how to get the **** out of H & Charlie’s way & help them get the ball.
Will lose my shit if I see all 3 of them contesting the same ball.

 

[BlueJet]

Think his marking will come on further this year, what I want him to learn to do is block & not give away frees.
Honestly believe he’s more useful to us learning how to get the * out of H & Charlie’s way & help them get the ball.
Will lose my s**t if I see all 3 of them contesting the same ball.

A lot of that comes down to coaching.
For many it's as simple/instinctive as see ball, get ball - structures be damned.
What we need to do better of is integrating each player into a cohesive forward line.
Having plenty of fluidity & movement down there will be a problem for the opposition.

 

[katmanblue]

Disagree to a degree.

Reckon TDK will become a very capable ruck/resting forward....

Just needs to clunk his marks.

Just pay the fine and wear a glove.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JustOneTime]

TDK all the way. JSoS/Mckay filling in.

Pitto a horses for courses selection in a couple of games. Pitto is good at hitouts to advantage but it is still a low stat number in reality. Pitto cant mark the ball in the forward 50 and doesn't look like he ever could or can going fwd.

Pitto got caught multiple times in the def 50 by the opposing ruckman. In 2023 was shipping def ruck goals.

In 2024 Pitto has to prove something before he is in the mix to replace TDK. I get the point that it might be injury related but that is what it is. This is similar to any discussion on Mcgovern vs Marchbank. I personally think Marchbank is the better player and option but the truth is, Marchbank has to prove it as he has been impacted by injury.

TDK up first until something changes.

 

[GeorgieBoyBlue2]

TDK with Harry doing the 'Daniher' role.
Better yet.... just swap Harry for Joe! I wish! Contenders for sure..

 

[bradfisher14]

TDK with chop-outs from SOS around the ground, Harry up forward, and Weiters occasionally in the backline if it's against his direct opponent.

 

[BolshyAust]

For the moment? I think that both have to play.
Both have weaknesses but do actually complement each other as the Melbourne final proved, where Pitto "crashed and bashed" affording TDK opportunities later.
What has to happen is that an opposition ruckman doesn't dominate us.

 

[Arr0w]

Not really a fan of a Pitto type ruckman, but with all the available options, 5 on the bench, I think we will run with both Pitto and TDK, as we did this year at the pointy end and it was effective

 

[Cringle]

TDKs best position is as the main ruck.

He is arguably already better than Pittonet. Plus he is younger with more potential.

We would rather him rucking 75% of the game compared to less than 50%.

JSOS is more than capable taking a few centre bounces and is a bazillion times more productive than Pitt.

I personally believe it’s a no brainer.

 

[jackn]

I get what you're saying re: JSOS but for mine, we can get similar output forward/around the ground from TDK and the two bigfellas are miles ahead in the ruck.

You may get similar output forward from tdk to jack as 3rd tall forward, but you're getting much less output around the ground from pitto than tdk as main ruck.

Pitt is at best an anchor to the side once the ball has been bounced. More likely he is a nett negative result as his opponent will enjoy numerous easy marks, often in their forward 50 as Pitt trails a few metres behind.

TDK main ruck, jack as chop out unless Harry gets better over summer. 5 on the bench is irrelevant as every other team has 5 so if we're carrying an extra slow, they're still going to be quicker.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

An ideal scenario, would be TDK has a break-out year and blitzes it. No need for Pitt then, maybe just save him for the gorilla's.

If Tom has an ordinary season, then Pitt becomes more important. Looked to me like Mark was managed with his knee severely hampering him for most of this year. Maybe he will somehow get himself fitter and over his niggles. We can only hope.

With Jack, we know what we are going to get. Undersized, but gives his all. He was playing very well before he hurt his knee, just think a big injury free pre-season and we should see Jack as a valuable part of our best 23.

Big Harry is an interesting one. Most probably we will see him mostly forward again next season. However, maybe he decides that he really wants to improve his ruck work. This may take a little pressure off of his goal kicking yips as well. This could be a really good outcome, Harry certainly has the physical attributes, just really needs to work hard at the craft. Am hoping that this happens.