First Pick

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To criticise Vickery is insane.


Vickery needs to fill out a bit. Only then can you start criticising him, and after he has been given some time to learn the rigours of AFL.

At the moment I like him. He has shown smarts , speed , and a bit of mogrel. He isn't a bad kick , and I think this guy can play a dual Ruck/forward role.

But at this stage he ant no Ottens. Give him time and let him develop.

BTW I am not sold on Sidebottom.
 
Vickery will be ok.

However I think Ziebell would be an amazing addition to our mids atm and that is what hurts. I am sort of in line with the thinking that you can pick a ruckman of similar ability up at 20-40 range or even develop a rookie, however top 10 mids are generally the ones that turn into AA stars.
 

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Look tugga you're a smart bloke and all but I have no idea how you can dismiss a ruckman - taken at pick 8 no less - who has only played a handful of games. It really goes against all logic. Of course he's not going to do what NicNat has done, he is a once in a generation freak. It is hard to think of another ruckman who has come in and made an impact so quickly. Vickery has shown some signs and has got plenty of time to develop.
 
Just to compare the freak Naitanui to Vickery at the same stage of their career so far

Click Me

Naitanui is ahead in disposals and hitouts, but that's about it. NicNat has also been playing as #1 ruck for West Coast with Cox getting back to form, his game on the weekend was pretty poor with only 5 disposals. Naitanui also has an extra 6kg on his frame.
 
Infamy said:
Just to compare the freak Naitanui to Vickery at the same stage of their career so far

Click Me

Naitanui is ahead in disposals and hitouts, but that's about it. NicNat has also been playing as #1 ruck for West Coast with Cox getting back to form, his game on the weekend was pretty poor with only 5 disposals. Naitanui also has an extra 6kg on his frame.
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Not having a go at the kid, saw a few things the other night that were very very pleasing, BUT!!! when i see fools like you suggest "Naitanui is ahead in disposals and hitouts, but that's about it", I have to ask, what are the stats that make up the other part of "but thats about it"? ....LMAO...;)
 
CoggaRules said:
Not having a go at the kid, saw a few things the other night that were very very pleasing, BUT!!! when i see fools like you suggest "Naitanui is ahead in disposals and hitouts, but that's about it", I have to ask, what are the stats that make up the other part of "but thats about it"? ....LMAO...;)
Click to expand...

lol, yeah I had a quiet chuckle about that too:p...is there anything as remotely important
 
getthefooty said:
Look tugga you're a smart bloke and all but I have no idea how you can dismiss a ruckman - taken at pick 8 no less - who has only played a handful of games. It really goes against all logic. Of course he's not going to do what NicNat has done, he is a once in a generation freak. It is hard to think of another ruckman who has come in and made an impact so quickly. Vickery has shown some signs and has got plenty of time to develop.
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I'm not having a go at Tyrone as such, although I am critical of him. He doesn't appear to be an obviously gifted player. I am having a go at the club who in my opinion used a No 8 (hmmm lets see who else we've taken at 8 or thereabouts - Pettifer, JON) on a ruckman who I consider to be only worthy of a No 40 pick. I highlighted Natanui and Kruezer as perfect examples of why you buck the trend and draft these kids high up as they immediately and obviously amazing.
The kid did show some good signs in the first quarter. But I haven't seen anything from him that is justified in him being taken at No 8, not even in the top 20.

Infamy said:
Just to compare the freak Naitanui to Vickery at the same stage of their career so far

Click Me

Naitanui is ahead in disposals and hitouts, but that's about it. NicNat has also been playing as #1 ruck for West Coast with Cox getting back to form, his game on the weekend was pretty poor with only 5 disposals. Naitanui also has an extra 6kg on his frame.
Click to expand...
WHat else is a ruckman supposed to do other get the ball and dispose of it and contest bounces and throw-ins?
 
TV looks pretty good to me, given he needs 10+ kgs to be able to even move his opponents. He seems fairly composed, good athletecism, good skills and I like his body positioning. But he runs into the big guys and bounces off - which makes him look pretty insipid.

NicNat started AFL at over 200 cm and around 100 kgs - he is a full sized teenage ruckman, Awesome size and his athleticism is amazing. But if you took 10+ kgs off him what affect would that have?

One of our problems at the moment is that we have young immature KPFs and rucks. That is an indictment of the drafting of the TW era (old ground but we have to live with it). TV will, imho, be fine. But I'd really like Gus or Browne to step up to be at least B grade rucks. This issue was obvious and needed to be dealt with three or four years ago, at least. So we are now building our spine and rucks, after building a midfield(ish).
 
tugga said:
I'm not having a go at Tyrone as such, although I am critical of him. He doesn't appear to be an obviously gifted player. I am having a go at the club who in my opinion used a No 8 (hmmm lets see who else we've taken at 8 or thereabouts - Pettifer, JON) on a ruckman who I consider to be only worthy of a No 40 pick. I highlighted Natanui and Kruezer as perfect examples of why you buck the trend and draft these kids high up as they immediately and obviously amazing.
The kid did show some good signs in the first quarter. But I haven't seen anything from him that is justified in him being taken at No 8, not even in the top 20.


WHat else is a ruckman supposed to do other get the ball and dispose of it and contest bounces and throw-ins?
Click to expand...

you gotta stop this witch hunt tugg it;s unhealthy and untugg like, in fact you were mistaken on PRE posting under another alias about this very topic by some other posters, I knew it wasn't you, the culprit is a mainstay villian of OER fame:p

http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=39283.315
 
Bojangles17 said:
you gotta stop this witch hunt tugg it;s unhealthy and untugg like, in fact you were mistaken on PRE posting under another alias about this very topic by some other posters, I knew it wasn't you, the culprit is a mainstay villian of OER fame:p

http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=39283.315
Click to expand...
I just read through that thread. Good old Barnzy saying it's me. I'm not even subscribed to PRE. I am subscribed to OER though.
It's not a witch hunt. I would actually like to see Vickery spend more time at FF instead of bveing molested in the ruck. It's an idictment on the club that man monsters like Graham and Browne are running around in the twos and can't crack it for a game over a hack in Simmonds and a kid. Leave TV at FF for a while so he can spend a LOT of time in the gym. God knows he really needs it.
 
TV doesnt look like a KPP at all to me, what has impressed me is an appetite to get involved in contested ball and can dish off some good handball in traffic...His Q1 was probably the best footy he has played. I accept if we had more viable options he may not play but crisis creates opportunity and he will benefit, Ive seen small steps taken and he is progressing at the snails pace most Big men do...he should be afforded the same ratings that other 2nd yr rucks get benchmarked to...we have all been guilty of marking this kid too bloody hard
 

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:thumbsu:SIDEBOTTOM is an obvious talent - from where I sit - a kid kicks 10 or so goals in a grand final on the biggest stage of all for Under 18 players, geez, that's a hard player to go past for mine!!! We can all say we're wise in hindsight, his grand final performance should have made us sit up and take notice.

The boy at Port, Jackson Trengove ... I'll take him over Vickery. Jordan Roughhead I'd certainly take over Vickery and only two weeks ago was carving the messiah in Graham and Browne up at VFL level (handy debut too).

:thumbsu:Gotta agree with Tugga, could easily have done equally as well with a pick in the 40s with a ruckman. :DWe could have taken McCulloch up, though our recruiters couldn't shut the f*** up!!! And picked a better player up at 8, say Sidebottom, Ziebell or even Swift.

Though drafting ain't an exact science. I comfort myself by believing we made a pretty smart selection with pick 26 in Post, who will be twice the footballer Vickery will be. I think Vickery will be decent and will likely stick for a good few years and we'll give him every opportunity to prove us wrong, but think we could have done better.

maybe because there are so few of them, us Tigers fans seem to ignore the picks we actually get right in preference to those we screw up and I'm sure Post will be one of them.
 
I have no doubt he will be a gun.

I'm not sure what people want from him. He's tiny compared to the guys he's rucking against every week. He doesn't have the fitness most the guys he rucks against also. He's coming alot very nicely.

How many ruckman do you see constantly dropped early in their careers? Jamar, Clark, Hille and Mcintosh were all very ordinary early on.
 
CoggaRules said:
Not having a go at the kid, saw a few things the other night that were very very pleasing, BUT!!! when i see fools like you suggest "Naitanui is ahead in disposals and hitouts, but that's about it", I have to ask, what are the stats that make up the other part of "but thats about it"? ....LMAO...;)
Click to expand...

They have the same kicks per game, NicNat only has 2 more handballs per game.
Vickery has 2 marks per game to NicNat's 1
Same goals per game

NicNat has 7 more hit outs per game and with a leap like he has then that's not surprising, however let's see if his stats drop off like they did last week now that Cox is match fit and back in the #1 spot. Vickery is still playing limited time in the ruck as they hold him back.
 
Infamy said:
They have the same kicks per game, NicNat only has 2 more handballs per game.
Vickery has 2 marks per game to NicNat's 1
Same goals per game

NicNat has 7 more hit outs per game and with a leap like he has then that's not surprising, however let's see if his stats drop off like they did last week now that Cox is match fit and back in the #1 spot. Vickery is still playing limited time in the ruck as they hold him back.
Click to expand...

Back on topic...I think if Darling or Day is available take them, if not I think we should go a midfielder.

Would love to add another top mid like Cotch, Lids or Martin. I think if we do this it would mean we will develop a lot quicker.
 
amcre said:
Back on topic...I think if Darling or Day is available take them, if not I think we should go a midfielder.

Would love to add another top mid like Cotch, Lids or Martin. I think if we do this it would mean we will develop a lot quicker.
Click to expand...

what he said :thumbsu:
 
deledio7 said:
I have no doubt he will be a gun.

I'm not sure what people want from him. He's tiny compared to the guys he's rucking against every week. He doesn't have the fitness most the guys he rucks against also. He's coming alot very nicely.

How many ruckman do you see constantly dropped early in their careers? Jamar, Clark, Hille and Mcintosh were all very ordinary early on.
Click to expand...

yep McIntosh and Hille another couple that took some time to come on...really people need to get some perspective on TV
 
Went and watched two TAC cup games over the weekend at Coburg and their was a heavy Richmond presence keeping a close eye.
 
Lucas Cook is beginning to make run for a top 5 in this years draft. Kicked another 6 on the weekend, 195 cm tall center half forward.
 

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