Play Nice First transgender player in the AFLW

[PoppedCorn]

It's an interesting representation of her body shape changes after transitioning, I think. Many people are not aware of how significant the changes can be.

So where's the comparison???

Tbh Its just an excuse to post the pic
Its added nothing to the debate
Like the other thread on this subject, that went in circles
It always end up in a complete shit fight, and anyone that doesn't agree that this should be allowed is made to look like some sexiat racist idiot because they have a diff of opinion.
The gang comes out and bullies the less popular opinion as evidenced in this very thread

 

[Forward Press]

There vested interest also doesn't really allow an impartial viewpoint does it?

Of course. I don't think I ever denied that in my posts.

I've done plenty of research into hormones and the endocrine system actually and just because someone happens to be transgender doesn't mean they know more than I do.

I'm no expert on the matter but I can tell you right now without a shred of doubt that 12 months doesnt even come close. In fact I'm note sure you could ever reduce a large mans bone structure to that if a womans with any amount of estrogen, particularly the skull and spine.

Bolded is my response.

Personally, I think there should be more research into the matter. However, also personally, I think anything that encourages participation in sports by athletes not fitting in the traditional male/female binary classification should be applauded. Would hate to see situations where a girl born with boy parts is forbidden from both male and female sports.

 

[kirsti]

YMMV

Timeframe is quite different also, and Kristi has said she thinks one year is far too short a time.

That is an old picture of Hannah's yes I clearly stated early on in the thread that I believe twelve months to be not long enough and when transition occurs later in life I suggest much longer.

 

[HairyO]

YMMV

Timeframe is quite different also, and Kristi has said she thinks one year is far too short a time.

Still not had confirmation if it is 1 year of treatment, or 1 year of testosterone levels below a certain point.

And that point was 3 times higher than the level most women have - which in itself is an advantage.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

I'm wondering why the OP needs to post photos of himself?

C'mon dude. The issue can be debated and you are entitled to believe a trans person is and will always be their biological sex but, OP is putting herself out there to discuss and put forward her opinion in a respectful way.

You really should pay her the respect of referring to her as she wants. You don't have to agree with with it.. but don't be a campaigner.

 

[Quinz]

12 years on vs 1 year on. And in the case of the IOC, you no longer even need surgery. And while you are expected to be on hormone treatment, they are not currently testing the testosterone levels.

So you quite literally could have a guy competing.

The IOC have that completely wrong unfortunately, to the detriment of competitors and public support.

The AFLW though appears to at least be setting some benchmarks.

 

[King Brown]

YMMV

Timeframe is quite different also, and Kristi has said she thinks one year is far too short a time.

That's the medical standard according to Forward Press.

The reality is that medicine isn't certain exactly how long after transition things will be roughly equal (it could be never), and the current rules only exist due to political pressure.

Which is fine, but if transgender women dominate women's sport, what happens to it?

 

[Bostonian]

YMMV

Timeframe is quite different also, and Kristi has said she thinks one year is far too short a time.

I guess even with time they'd still be 190cm and 90kgs, big unit even with some drop off of bulk.

 

[kirsti]

So where's the comparison???

Tbh Its just an excuse to post the pic
Its added nothing to the debate
Like the other thread on this subject, that went in circles
It always end up in a complete shit fight, and anyone that doesn't agree that this should be allowed is made to look like some sexiat racist idiot because they have a diff of opinion.
The gang comes out and bullies the less popular opinion as evidenced in this very thread

I posted pics on page one and page ten.

I have conducted ask me
Anything forums and live AMA's to promote discussion and hopefully some education. I disagree with you that dismiss my photos as being irrelevant to the very thread that I created.

 

[PoppedCorn]

C'mon dude. The issue can be debated and you are entitled to believe a trans person is and will always be their biological sex but, OP is putting herself out there to discuss and put forward her opinion in a respectful way.

You really should pay her the respect of referring to her as she wants. You don't have to agree with with it.. but don't be a campaigner.

I'm sure the OP doesn't give two ****s what I think

 

[Quinz]

So where's the comparison???

Tbh Its just an excuse to post the pic
Its added nothing to the debate
Like the other thread on this subject, that went in circles
It always end up in a complete shit fight, and anyone that doesn't agree that this should be allowed is made to look like some sexiat racist idiot because they have a diff of opinion.
The gang comes out and bullies the less popular opinion as evidenced in this very thread

There are pre and post transition pics of kristi in this thread, although I think they're in different posts.

Most people would find that interesting I think.

 

[HairyO]

The IOC have that completely wrong unfortunately, to the detriment of competitors and public support.

The AFLW though appears to at least be setting some benchmarks.

It wasnt their fault. They were actually coming up with a solid set of guidelines. And then a Court stepped in and made some simply ridiculous findings.

The Court questioned whether high levels of testosterone are beneficial. Have they seen nothing of the last 40 years of doping in sports?

 

[Vitriol]

Are you looking at the comments I'm responding to, or are you just another person trying to discredit my character because you know your argument doesn't hold any merit?

I haven't made any argument. Just seems odd how you are conducting yourself after making that first comment. You went from bemoaning a lack of rational discussion to cutting sick and insulting everyone in a very short space of time.
I also don't really think that "they started it" works as an excuse when you become an adult. Shouldn't even be a defense a child would use.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

I haven't made any argument. Just seems odd how you are conducting yourself after making that first comment. You went from bemoaning a lack of rational discussion to cutting sick and insulting everyone in a very short space of time.
I also don't really think that "they started it" works as an excuse when you become an adult. Shouldn't even be a defense a child would use.

I think we're well past that now mate, do you have anything to contribute or do you just want to take stabs from your moral highground?

 

[Furn2]

Science has shown that even a short period of steroid use dramatically increases the number of satellite muscle cells and the number of nuclei in a muscle cell and that the average half life of these nuclei is around 15 years, its also shown that having more nuclei allows for "muscle memory" which is why bodybuilders can regain muscle far quicker than others who haven't trained before. Since testosterone is the gold standard of anabolic asteroids, I see no reason as to why years a being a man wouldn't have the same effect.

So while hormone therapy might reduce muscle mass to the same levels as someone born a women, if a transgender was to take up serious strength training i would suggest they would see significantly superior gains.

 

[kirsti]

T

12 years on vs 1 year on. And in the case of the IOC, you no longer even need surgery. And while you are expected to be on hormone treatment, they are not currently testing the testosterone levels.

So you quite literally could have a guy competing.

Trans athletes have their hormone levels stringently tested intersexed and genetically born females do not at this time.

 

[Quinz]

Still not had confirmation if it is 1 year of treatment, or 1 year of testosterone levels below a certain point.

And that point was 3 times higher than the level most women have - which in itself is an advantage.

The 10 nanomoles/litre I have no idea where that benchmark comes from tbh. Most women competing in top level sports would have higher than average though you'd suspect, I think they wanted to get some flexibility so they don't inadvertently ban current competitors? I'm not sure.

I suspect they'll tinker with the level over time, and hopefully groups like the IOC see sense and looks back to biological benchmarking for trans women.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

Of course. I don't think I ever denied that in my posts.



Bolded is my response.

Personally, I think there should be more research into the matter. However, also personally, I think anything that encourages participation in sports by athletes not fitting in the traditional male/female binary classification should be applauded. Would hate to see situations where a girl born with boy parts is forbidden from both male and female sports.

Exactly, far more research should be done before we allow people born male to compete against physically inferior women. In thr meantime they should join a mens league or form their own league, instead of putting the and safety of women at risk.

 

[kirsti]

T

The IOC have that completely wrong unfortunately, to the detriment of competitors and public support.

The AFLW though appears to at least be setting some benchmarks.

The AFL have adopted the IOC,a policy.

 

[PoppedCorn]

I posted pics on page one and page ten.

Oh so the black n white is you,??
I didn't realise it was a guessing game?
I thought that was a pic of the person discussed in the thread title??

Hey good on you for fighting this fight if that's what you want to do with your life
Do I agree, no I don't, I think if you are born what you are born then that's that...if you believe you can change your sex that then that's your decision but you have to take the good comments with the bad
Tbh it won't mean jack shit in the aflw
If the girls don't have a prob with it that actually play in that league then play on.

 

[Deep]

The AFL would never allow a female turned male into the league even if they were 180cm and 80kg because of how rough men can be.

So this is really unfair they do the opposite and allow a man turned woman beat up on women.

 

[HairyO]

T

Trans athletes have their hormone levels stringently tested intersexed and genetically born females do not at this time.

But at the moment with the IOC because there is no sex testing, so you dont even have to declare yourself transgender? You can simply say you are female.

Show a birth certificate or whatever which states you are female, and no testing is required. Just the standard anti doping.

 

[King Brown]

Exactly, far more research should be done before we allow people born male to compete against physically inferior women. In thr meantime they should join a mens league or form their own league, instead of putting the and safety of women at risk.

I take the opposite view: allow it. Put the political theory to the test in the sporting arena. Will people still hold their views if they see a transgender woman run through a smaller, natural-born woman? If women leave the sport due to safety fears, will the political view survive?

 

[PoppedCorn]

There are pre and post transition pics of kristi in this thread, although I think they're in different posts.

Most people would find that interesting I think.

Here's pic one..this is me before the surgery
Here's pic two this is me now after all my stuff I had to go thru

Chucking up pics randomly with no description posts apart makes it confusing

But carry on

 

[Deep]

Oh so the black n white is you,??
I didn't realise it was a guessing game?
I thought that was a pic of the person discussed in the thread title??

Hey good on you for fighting this fight if that's what you want to do with your life
Do I agree, no I don't, I think if you are born what you are born then that's that...if you believe you can change your sex that then that's your decision but you have to take the good comments with the bad
Tbh it won't mean jack shit in the aflw
If the girls don't have a prob with it that actually play in that league then play on.

They'll all have an issue with it since said person is significantly bigger than all of them. But if they say anything they've just lost their AFLW career, massive headlines all over the news will make them look like pieces of shit and they'll find it next to impossible to get a real world job. Social suicide.