Fitzroy Vs the Paddle Pop lion court case

[whatboutbob]

http://www.lions.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/5085/newsid/98274/default.aspx

Tbh I think all of these conditions are pointless if the official club logo hasn't been changed. But in the end the terrible jumper will stay and I highly doubt that it will change if the current management team is in charge.

What would it take to get Bowers sacked?

Agreed. A lousy compromise.

What happens after 14 years?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Agreed. A lousy compromise.

What happens after 14 years?

Hopefully we have an admin team in place that doesn't need legal threats to do the right thing.

 

[fitzroy_lions123]

Agreed. A lousy compromise.

What happens after 14 years?

i know..
whats up with that?

so we have 2 logos now yeh?

 

[Judge]

Agreed. A lousy compromise.

What happens after 14 years?

At least there's no more wasting of money on either side.

 

[Mobbs]

At least there's no more wasting of money on either side.

Hear hear + this + what Judge said.

 

[whatboutbob]

At least there's no more wasting of money on either side.

Watch now how Kelly and Bowers explain how they weren't wrong in their approach to the introduction of the new logo. They would have won the case but they were simply saving members money because Fitzroy couldn't afford to pay costs.

 

[LionKing]

Its great to see this issue was finally resolved through mediation. However, I cant help but still feel pissed off with the way Bowers treated all members and supporters. It could have been handled so much better.......its time to go Bowers

 

[lionbear]

Our deal with Puma is up at the end of the year and they are pulling out of footy.

My mail is that the club is talking to Koo Ga.

It would be a good opportunity to change jumper design, but I doubt Bowers will give an inch on that.

Why doesn't the club put the logo on the line.

Straight vote to all members in 2010 and new members signed up by the 15th of October 2010 for the 2011 season.

New Jumper or old. If the new design is so good it will win in a vote. If not the old jumper comes back before a new apparel sponsor makes its first run of the new merchandise.

Let ALL members decide, not just the board and 100 members selected by the board itself.

 

[Stocka]

The Fitzroy connection is important to me but I am far more concerned with the present and the future of the Brisbane Lions. I never supported Fitzroy, I simply inherited their history by a quirk of the AFL and the fact that the FFC went "belly up". Sorry to be so blunt but that is the reality of most supporters in Queensland.
I understand that your passion runs deep... but I am not remotely interested in Vossy's Lions being compromised by court cases about problematic logos. To me that is pedantic history that has absolutely no relevance to the BLFC I support and the team I barrack for. I am also a member of the BLFC, as is my father who "inducted" me into the sport and imbued me with his passion for the Bears and then subsequently the Lions.
I suspect we are from very different eras and I trust the Brisbane Lions have given you some joy (2001-2003 in particular), perhaps much greater than anything you had previously and that you will find happiness in supporting a local team in Melbourne next year.
Sadly for you, the Brisbane Lions are not the FFC or the Brisbane Bears. They are a new entity and as for merger agreements, unfortunately only the lawyers and courts can resolve that issue. If the FFC is "right" they will have achieved little other than to financially hurt the Brisbane Lions. From my perspective this is a win:lose scenario that is just plain stupid.
I respect your views and emotions but I am not interested in anything that compromises the BLFC from going forward.
On another separate matter, I do empathise with your angst as a Melbourne based BLFC supporter and would support anything you do to get a better deal from the Club...we need a strong Melbourne base of Brisbane Lions supporters. To me this is not about logos and court cases this is about the Club and its membership department maximising its market and looking after its members.

I think this has been your best post on the topic, Fairley.

I have a different opinion to what you've explained about your own, but I appreciated the fact that on this occasion you didn't use phrases that you have previously used that have tended to come across as deriding those who have a different opinion.

Your post made much more interesting reading and didn't provoke an astringent response in my own mind that I had to curtail from posting on the boards.

I don't mean this post in any form of sarcasm either, just in case it reads that way, as I do appreciate your more balanced approach.

 

[T Rick]

A good mediated outcome. It is all a load of pedantic nonsense to me but given the angst it has caused, happy with the compromise and outcome. Time to bury the hatchet and move on.

 

[Stocka]

It would be a good opportunity to change jumper design, but I doubt Bowers will give an inch on that.

Yeah you'd have to think it'd be no chance, because the vitriol that you can read between the lines suggests that the key people defending the decision almost embrace it as a personal crusade now.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yeah you'd have to think it'd be no chance, because the vitriol that you can read between the lines suggests that the key people defending the decision almost embrace it as a personal crusade now.

Yep, which is a dangerous mindset to have when you are the man with the finger on the button.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Yeah you'd have to think it'd be no chance, because the vitriol that you can read between the lines suggests that the key people defending the decision almost embrace it as a personal crusade now.

It certainly feels that way. This is no end to the matter, nor the bigger problem.

I'm sick to death of watching a bunch of smarmy ****wits make a mockery of something I love.

 

[JB75]

2011 would be a good opportunity to revisit the jumper design. As we now have 2 logos, our traditional, Fitzroy, merger, premiership lion and our modern marketing one, we should have a 'traditional' strip and a modern strip as the Eagles do. The club has to have a home and away strip anyway.

The club could have the lion's head in the way they originally envisiged on the jumper (without bastardising the traditional lion) and the larger blue yolk on one, and the other should be the traditional premiership guernsey or the 'fitzroy red' jumper with the old lion as an away strip.

This way the club can 'modernise' it's image without throwing the baby out with the bathwater and everyone is relatively happy.

Why the club would want to distance itself from our power and glory years in the first place has got me buggered. Most clubs would give anything to have as much success associated with their jumper.

 

[Jemima]

2011 would be a good opportunity to revisit the jumper design. As we now have 2 logos, our traditional, Fitzroy, merger, premiership lion and our modern marketing one, we should have a 'traditional' strip and a modern strip as the Eagles do. The club has to have a home and away strip anyway.

The club could have the lion's head in the way they originally envisiged on the jumper (without bastardising the traditional lion) and the larger blue yolk on one, and the other should be the traditional premiership guernsey or the 'fitzroy red' jumper with the old lion as an away strip.

This way the club can 'modernise' it's image without throwing the baby out with the bathwater and everyone is relatively happy.

Why the club would want to distance itself from our power and glory years in the first place has got me buggered. Most clubs would give anything to have as much success associated with their jumper.

Great idea! Have you emailed the club with your suggestion?

 

[fitzroy_lions123]

2011 would be a good opportunity to revisit the jumper design. As we now have 2 logos, our traditional, Fitzroy, merger, premiership lion and our modern marketing one, we should have a 'traditional' strip and a modern strip as the Eagles do. The club has to have a home and away strip anyway.

The club could have the lion's head in the way they originally envisiged on the jumper (without bastardising the traditional lion) and the larger blue yolk on one, and the other should be the traditional premiership guernsey or the 'fitzroy red' jumper with the old lion as an away strip.

This way the club can 'modernise' it's image without throwing the baby out with the bathwater and everyone is relatively happy.

Why the club would want to distance itself from our power and glory years in the first place has got me buggered. Most clubs would give anything to have as much success associated with their jumper.

I agree with the bold parts.
and with the unbolded part, i dont think the people up in brisbane will think its fair.

 

[3KZ is Football]

It certainly feels that way. This is no end to the matter, nor the bigger problem.

I'm sick to death of watching a bunch of smarmy ****wits make a mockery of something I love.

Ditto and you know what, I'm almost beyond caring.
They can reap what they have sown.
**** 'em!

 

[adey115]

Why doesn't the club put the logo on the line.

Straight vote to all members in 2010 and new members signed up by the 15th of October 2010 for the 2011 season.

New Jumper or old. If the new design is so good it will win in a vote. If not the old jumper comes back before a new apparel sponsor makes its first run of the new merchandise.

Let ALL members decide, not just the board and 100 members selected by the board itself.

Given the change in guernsey supplier, it is the perfect time for the Club to ask the question of those it represents - which guernsey design do you as members actually want?

They missed the 'opportunity' to consult members and fans first time round - but now there is no legitimate excuse not to ask.

No doubt that the new design was merchandise sales driven - well given there will be a new guernsey supplier logo next year, that means a new jumper will be available regardless of what is on the front - and thus again, there will be potential new merch sales next year. So why not ask the people what they actually want??? Ask the people who you are meant to represent what it is that they are after in terms of a guernsey design - the old style or the new style???

I'll put my $110 on the table now for one of the new season 2011 jumpers, plus re-instigate my membership, regardless of the result of the vote (old or new) - if the Club actually asked its members the question as to what they want.

That to me would be a positive step forward, after such a negative period on and off the field. Such a massive opportunity for the Club now. But, will they have the brains to take it?

 

[adey115]

I for one am looking forward to the Club's P&L report this year, and it's not often you can say that...! I want to see what positive effects, if any, have resulted from the new guernsey design. Will merch sales have jumped significantly?? Has it resulted in more corporate interest in the club?? Has it resulted in more junior memberships? (to which the cartoon style was meant to appeal?)

Were they not the reasons touted for the change in the first place?

In terms of legal compromise, I think what has resulted was 'fair'. However having two logos and a jumper that is widely disliked by membership to me seems at best disjointed.

Next year. A new season. A new opportunity. Seize the day Lions Board - ask what your members want. Return some Pride in your own activities as representatives of the Membership.... I believe the line from the theme song is "all for one, and one for all".

 

[Hollow Knight]

Given the change in guernsey supplier, it is the perfect time for the Club to ask the question of those it represents - which guernsey design do you as members actually want?

They missed the 'opportunity' to consult members and fans first time round - but now there is no legitimate excuse not to ask.

The lack of consultation was brought up at the AGM and shut down by Tony Kelly in an extremely patronising display of straw man tactics.

Basically said "we are elected to make decisions... what's next, members deciding who is selected in the team *chuckle chuckle*".

As if two situations are even remotely comparable. Knob.

 

[Always a Lion]

Clearly Fairley you don't give a hoot about history.

Next year I'll be a member of just one club, it'll be my local one. I know a few who also think like me.

Is that what you mean by "move on" Fairley?


The Fitzroy connection is important to me but I am far more concerned with the present and the future of the Brisbane Lions. I never supported Fitzroy, I simply inherited their history by a quirk of the AFL and the fact that the FFC went "belly up". Sorry to be so blunt but that is the reality of most supporters in Queensland.
I understand that your passion runs deep... but I am not remotely interested in Vossy's Lions being compromised by court cases about problematic logos. To me that is pedantic history that has absolutely no relevance to the BLFC I support and the team I barrack for. I am also a member of the BLFC, as is my father who "inducted" me into the sport and imbued me with his passion for the Bears and then subsequently the Lions.
I suspect we are from very different eras and I trust the Brisbane Lions have given you some joy (2001-2003 in particular), perhaps much greater than anything you had previously and that you will find happiness in supporting a local team in Melbourne next year.
Sadly for you, the Brisbane Lions are not the FFC or the Brisbane Bears. They are a new entity and as for merger agreements, unfortunately only the lawyers and courts can resolve that issue. If the FFC is "right" they will have achieved little other than to financially hurt the Brisbane Lions. From my perspective this is a win:lose scenario that is just plain stupid.
I respect your views and emotions but I am not interested in anything that compromises the BLFC from going forward.
On another separate matter, I do empathise with your angst as a Melbourne based BLFC supporter and would support anything you do to get a better deal from the Club...we need a strong Melbourne base of Brisbane Lions supporters. To me this is not about logos and court cases this is about the Club and its membership department maximising its market and looking after its members.

I'm with Stocka. This in IMHO, is your most considered and well constructed post on this matter. I sincerely appreciate the effort you put into it, as much as I appreciate the missing seemingly 'derisive' nature of comments which have appeared in some of your past posts.

I don't follow a club because they win premierships, though that is the aim of all clubs and what all supporters wish for. So the "joy" of 2001-03 is a perk, the cherry, but it is definitely not the cake.

The fact that the Roys were not all that successful on field, did not diminish my devotion for them. As much as my devotion for the BLFC is not diminished by any current or future lack of success.

On your last point, I'd argue the club is more interested in wooing new members and not so much looking after current members, particularly not in Melbourne. And not giving a hoot about what its members think about logos, jumpers or whatever else they think or feel strongly about, "is" what it is all about. Loyalty is a sword that cuts both ways.

 

[Gibbo_88]

The lack of consultation was brought up at the AGM and shut down by Tony Kelly in an extremely patronising display of straw man tactics.

Basically said "we are elected to make decisions... what's next, members deciding who is selected in the team *chuckle chuckle*".

As if two situations are even remotely comparable. Knob.

Absolute knob

Maybe a huge loss will be enough to have these kinds of people have their job in question. Recruiting Fev, playing finals and I think the average crowd is around 29-30k this year. Not suitable to run a club if they can't get every $ out of this year to a small profit at the very least.

 

[Last of the Roys]

2011 would be a good opportunity to revisit the jumper design. As we now have 2 logos, our traditional, Fitzroy, merger, premiership lion and our modern marketing one, we should have a 'traditional' strip and a modern strip as the Eagles do. The club has to have a home and away strip anyway.

The club could have the lion's head in the way they originally envisiged on the jumper (without bastardising the traditional lion) and the larger blue yolk on one, and the other should be the traditional premiership guernsey or the 'fitzroy red' jumper with the old lion as an away strip.

This way the club can 'modernise' it's image without throwing the baby out with the bathwater and everyone is relatively happy.

Why the club would want to distance itself from our power and glory years in the first place has got me buggered. Most clubs would give anything to have as much success associated with their jumper.

Good idea.

I would urge everyone that cares strongly about the jumper issue to again contact the Club outlining what you think should happen - even if it is just a brief email. You may think there is no chance of changing their minds - but I have some hope that another compromise can be reached.

With enough people writing to the Club they may see sense in making some changes (such as those suggested above) rather than having the possibility of far more restrictive member resolutions being put to a vote at the Club's own AGM - which is definitely not out of the question, but is also not exactly easy for members to achieve. (I am not going to go into legal detail of how that can be done here, but I will when I write to the Club).

I am going to write to Bowers and the Board this weekend to see if we can't 'strike why the iron is hot'.

Here are the contact details:

Tony Kelly - Chairman
Chief Executive Officer - Michael Bowers

Brisbane Head Office
The Gabba
Gate 2, Level 5
812 Stanley Street
Woolloongabba QLD 4102

Brisbane Office: club@lions.com.au
Melbourne Office: melbourne@lions.com.au

(If anyone has Bowers direct email address then please post it here as well. I and many others here have emailed him before, he may not directly respond anymore, but it is a good way to ensure he does see the issues that are being raised.)

 

[Hollow Knight]

I think last year showed that Bowers and the board aren't responsive to the threat of special resolutions etc.

They've set up the club constitution in a way that they are extremely well protected and as a result, threats just arouse their ego and give them a "come and get us" mentality.

I'd try appealing to their egos instead.

 

[GingerGreatness]

Thought the exact thing last night - if member's start proposing things, it's pretty much off the cards.

We need a womanly like touch to put an idea accross so subtly that egotistical meatheads will have a "Eureka" moment, then proclaim themselves as being brilliant for coming up with it.

TBD, does Ms Stitchface have any experience in that arena?