Football club finances / FFP

[SM]

Not sure many clubs in the Premier League care for the "spirit of the rules".

Provided we aren't doing anything illegal, it's fine in my book. If the Prem wants to change rules based on this, it'll at least affect the Top 6 hopefully.

And yet you care enough to reply. As I said you haven't been punished but trying to justify it as the same as clubs like Chelsea is funny.

 

[SM]

Can’t say I’m comfortable with what we did. Just selling and buying humans like they’re crops with no footballing purpose behind the deals.

I don’t like what the big clubs do or how they’re protected by the systems in place, but fans are way too comfortable letting rubbish like this happen if it might make the team better or some other club did it first. I’d rather Everton stay shit but be a club you can get behind rather than become another accounts FC.

This

 

[Toffee Lion]

And yet you care enough to reply. As I said you haven't been punished but trying to justify it as the same as clubs like Chelsea is funny.

I'm not justifying anything, I'm just pointing out that once again when Everton try to do something, the league acts.

When are they acting on City & Chelsea? Is that not a fair question to ask?

 

[moomba]

The main issue is that one club is allowed to stall out 115 charges, while other minor level clubs get the hammer immediately.

The PL has written to teams saying to stop trying to play PSR, after 'Everton' have tried to do just that. I didn't see any emails when Chelsea signed massive contracts to do similar.

We have every right to feel aggrieved as supporters.

You pleaded guilty, we didn't. Our case is taking pretty much how long it was expected to take given the number of charged, the complexity and the seriousness of the charges (and potential consequences)

The one part of the charge you didn't plead guilty to hasn't been heard yet.

You guys need to stop whining about other clubs and focus on yourselves.

 

[chef]

I'm not justifying anything, I'm just pointing out that once again when Everton try to do something, the league acts.

When are they acting on City & Chelsea? Is that not a fair question to ask?

What rules have we broken?

 

[SM]

I'm not justifying anything, I'm just pointing out that once again when Everton try to do something, the league acts.

When are they acting on City & Chelsea? Is that not a fair question to ask?

"I'm not justifying it but how come we're the only ones getting in trouble when no one else did"

Not really when them selling youth players for reasonable fees was not done as a guise for player swaps to circumvent psr.

 

[Toffee Lion]

What rules have we broken?

None. In this case Everton haven't broken any rules either. Yet as soon as we try to play the same game as Chelsea, the league says no, not you.

 

[Toffee Lion]

"I'm not justifying it but how come we're the only ones getting in trouble when no one else did"

Not really when them selling youth players for reasonable fees was not done as a guise for player swaps to circumvent psr.

So they're allowed to stock pile youth talent, for the sole purpose of circumnavigating a rule but Everton is not allowed to sell a player to circumnavigate a rule?

I mean FFS, Chelsea sold bloody hotels to avoid PSR but Everton is the bad guy.

 

[chef]

None. In this case Everton haven't broken any rules either. Yet as soon as we try to play the same game as Chelsea, the league says no, not you.

No one is saying no though.

 

[chef]

So they're allowed to stock pile youth talent, for the sole purpose of circumnavigating a rule but Everton is not allowed to sell a player to circumnavigate a rule?

I mean FFS, Chelsea sold bloody hotels to avoid PSR but Everton is the bad guy.

Your allowed to develop and invest in your academy to produce footballers of value to others. This is where FFP sucks, you should get the benefits from using them yourself rather than being pure profit windfalls.

Plus the league voted on the selling things to yourself stuff and majority wanted to keep it. Everyone can do it.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Your allowed to develop and invest in your academy to produce footballers of value to others. This is where FFP sucks, you should get the benefits from using them yourself rather than being pure profit windfalls.

Plus the league voted on the selling things to yourself stuff and majority wanted to keep it. Everyone can do it.

All of which is legal but if you want to follow SM's argument, none of it is in the "spirit of the rules" for Chelsea.

Everton found a decent loophole, used it and then the PL has allegedly sent out emails regarding punishments for fraudulent player transfers. It's frustrating as a fan of a club who keeps having to fight an uphill battle just to compete in the competition.

I come in here, post the tweet and my frustrations alongside it and get shouted down as if Everton are rorting the system and breaking the rules.
Selling a player to a club isn't breaking the rules, neither is stretching contracts or selling youth for PSR purposes (Or even apparently selling hotels etc). I was just irked by the immediate action of the PL to combat what WE did, when "similar" situations go unnoticed.

Have a great youth setup? Awesome, sell away to avoid PSR.
Have a big 6 reputation to attract key players on long contracts? No worries, stretch it.
Lower tier club trying to make ends meet by doing a sale swap? Now this is urging on being fraudulent, watch out.

FFP is designed to keep the Big 6 in power, you aren't allowed to play the same game.

 

[SM]

So they're allowed to stock pile youth talent, for the sole purpose of circumnavigating a rule but Everton is not allowed to sell a player to circumnavigate a rule?

I mean FFS, Chelsea sold bloody hotels to avoid PSR but Everton is the bad guy.

I don't really know what you think this discussion is about but you're conflating selling a ton of youth players with doing player swaps at false values.

 

[SM]

All of which is legal but if you want to follow SM's argument, none of it is in the "spirit of the rules" for Chelsea.

Everton found a decent loophole, used it and then the PL has allegedly sent out emails regarding punishments for fraudulent player transfers. It's frustrating as a fan of a club who keeps having to fight an uphill battle just to compete in the competition.

I come in here, post the tweet and my frustrations alongside it and get shouted down as if Everton are rorting the system and breaking the rules.
Selling a player to a club isn't breaking the rules, neither is stretching contracts or selling youth for PSR purposes (Or even apparently selling hotels etc). I was just irked by the immediate action of the PL to combat what WE did, when "similar" situations go unnoticed.

Have a great youth setup? Awesome, sell away to avoid PSR.
Have a big 6 reputation to attract key players on long contracts? No worries, stretch it.
Lower tier club trying to make ends meet by doing a sale swap? Now this is urging on being fraudulent, watch out.

FFP is designed to keep the Big 6 in power, you aren't allowed to play the same game.

Huh? I don't think you really know what we're talking about. Selling youth players is fine, we're doing it this summer too.

 

[moomba]

If FFP is designed to look after us they've got a strange way of showing it, lol.

 

[Toffee Lion]

I don't really know what you think this discussion is about but you're conflating selling a ton of youth players with doing player swaps at false values.

I really don't think you understood the original complaint. Instead as per usual with you, you attack the poster, a common theme from your posting on this board.

Huh? I don't think you really know what we're talking about. Selling youth players is fine, we're doing it this summer too.

Again here, just another potshot to try and big ups a conversation.

You really aren't adding anything of value, I posted an article stating that the Premier League wasn't happy about what we did. I'm not sure why they're not happy with something that's within rules and I complained. You come in and try to act all smarty pants in the matter, laying blame at Everton's feet whether we break a rule or not.

 

[ossie_21]

What rules have we broken?

Isn’t there a bit of glass houses with this?

You got around rules by your owner selling hotels between companies he owns/“is very invested in” to get around a potential PSR charge, absolute tumbleweeds.

Everton & Villa transfer 2 U21 players for pretty moderate fees for English players that are/were ingrained in premier league squads, threat letters go out. Yes, there’s an English tax in existence due to the PL homegrown rules.

Honestly, I just want consistency with things like this lol

My whole point with the situation, which certain posters simply cannot comprehend, despite me laying them out multiple times, is that the PSR rules:

Are.
Not.
Fit.
For.
Purpose.

They were set 10+ years ago, inflation and cost of living is nowhere near comparable and the PSR threshold has not even been reviewed a teeny tiny bit. Multiple clubs have done things around it, playing the game - I honestly don’t care.

I don’t care as the entire thing needs a reset, with ground rules absolutely set in stone and everyone essentially has a clean slate moving forward. It’s been a chaotic mess since the BS started, rules have been made up & changed on the fly, precedents from any somewhat similar cases have been allowed to apply in one instance but not the next.

Perhaps others aren’t as up to speed to the happenings that Everton fans have been. I’ve learnt more than I ever wanted to about that side of the game. But let me put it this way:

The premier league wanted to deduct Everton 18 points last season. DOUBLE what administration could costs clubs and only via appeals was this reduced. The 2nd of which made the point it was excessive and countered many points of the original findings, which we had to accept the appeal of - if there was any chance of appealing the appeal, we could very well have been penalised far less. The original charge even pointed out there has been no sporting advantage, but found it fit to impose a sporting fine - LOL.
The Everton situation is very complex as other clubs in recent times that have built new stadiums have not done so from complete scratch we have, at a heritage listed site. I am not claiming full innocence in what has happened and I don’t know all the ins and outs, there have been some stupid decisions made by a stupid owner who we are on the verge of being done with forever, and I’ll celebrate that in my own way once it’s all confirmed. But the fans haven’t deserved to be punished as we have been.

So for playing the game like other clubs have done for years? Yeah, I have no issue with that. If we were deliberately inflating values to an unrealistic level, everyone would do it and the rules would be utterly pointless.

The PL are completely ****ed trying to save face before an independent regulator takes over, you’re a fool if you think otherwise.

 

[moomba]

If the rules were about fairness the bottom club would be able to spend as much as the top club if they chose to and could afford it.

If the rules were about safeguarding clubs future, selling an academy player and spending the money on a replacement from outside the club wouldn't help you pass PSR.

The rules aren't fit for purpose. Welcome to a 15 year old party. Only wish more people saw the light sooner.

 

[SM]

I really don't think you understood the original complaint. Instead as per usual with you, you attack the poster, a common theme from your posting on this board.


Again here, just another potshot to try and big ups a conversation.

You really aren't adding anything of value, I posted an article stating that the Premier League wasn't happy about what we did. I'm not sure why they're not happy with something that's within rules and I complained. You come in and try to act all smarty pants in the matter, laying blame at Everton's feet whether we break a rule or not.

I don't think saying you're not following the conversation is a potshot and actually the one now getting personal is you. Both chef and Moomba have said the same things as me.

You can't seem to comprehend the difference between inflated swap deals and clubs previously stockpiling young talent to sell. The two scenarios are entirely different unless you can point to a prodigious youth player Chelsea bought for an identical fee to their sale of Tammy Abraham, or a Southampton kid man city are buying to reciprocate the Harwood Bellis sale. Otherwise your attempt to equate what you're doing to them has no basis in fact.

No one is saying you've broken a rule or deserve to be punished, all that's being pointed out is that doing these inflated deals is designed to get around psr. People in fact were similarly critical of Chelsea's hotel sales but clubs voted to not change the rules. Clubs may also be fine to not look to change this rule. Life will go on but commenting on it shouldn't be taken as some sort of victim mentality. Amazingly you might notice I was just as critical of villa and Chelsea's involvement in this but I suspect that's been lost in the "SM just wants to pile on Everton because he's a big meanie" narrative you seem to have.

 

[Toffee Lion]

I don't think saying you're not following the conversation is a potshot and actually the one now getting personal is you. Both chef and Moomba have said the same things as me.

You can't seem to comprehend the difference between inflated swap deals and clubs previously stockpiling young talent to sell. The two scenarios are entirely different unless you can point to a prodigious youth player Chelsea bought for an identical fee to their sale of Tammy Abraham, or a Southampton kid man city are buying to reciprocate the Harwood Bellis sale. Otherwise your attempt to equate what you're doing to them has no basis in fact.

No one is saying you've broken a rule or deserve to be punished, all that's being pointed out is that doing these inflated deals is designed to get around psr. People in fact were similarly critical of Chelsea's hotel sales but clubs voted to not change the rules. Clubs may also be fine to not look to change this rule. Life will go on but commenting on it shouldn't be taken as some sort of victim mentality. Amazingly you might notice I was just as critical of villa and Chelsea's involvement in this but I suspect that's been lost in the "SM just wants to pile on Everton because he's a big meanie" narrative you seem to have.

I really don't want to go around in circles. My original complaint was incorrect to reference youth sales & contract stretching as they're both perfectly legal. I should have referenced the 115 charges & hotel sales as similar PSR skirting behaviour as this swap deal.

We didn't break any rules, this time. If the PL want to send out notices as a threat, then act upon it or shut up. Maybe seeing all the current commotion regarding PSR from most clubs should highlight to them there is a big flaw in the system currently.

And no I don't believe you only spite Everton but it's certainly a past time of yours to highlight the clubs shortcomings on a continued basis. Maybe just stop to think that we as supporters cannot control our clubs actions, if we want to vent then let us vent without telling us how "But it's Everton's fault". We know it's the club's fault for being in this predicament, the Premier League is certainly not helping though with how they've handled PSR in recent times and it's incredibly frustrating.

I just want to watch my club play 38 games of football, finish a mediocre 11th and call it a season. The last few seasons have had far too much politicalness to find any enjoyment, even in the off-season.

 

[SM]

I really don't want to go around in circles. My original complaint was incorrect to reference youth sales & contract stretching as they're both perfectly legal. I should have referenced the 115 charges & hotel sales as similar PSR skirting behaviour as this swap deal.

We didn't break any rules, this time. If the PL want to send out notices as a threat, then act upon it or shut up. Maybe seeing all the current commotion regarding PSR from most clubs should highlight to them there is a big flaw in the system currently.

And no I don't believe you only spite Everton but it's certainly a past time of yours to highlight the clubs shortcomings on a continued basis. Maybe just stop to think that we as supporters cannot control our clubs actions, if we want to vent then let us vent without telling us how "But it's Everton's fault". We know it's the club's fault for being in this predicament, the Premier League is certainly not helping though with how they've handled PSR in recent times and it's incredibly frustrating.

I just want to watch my club play 38 games of football, finish a mediocre 11th and call it a season. The last few seasons have had far too much politicalness to find any enjoyment, even in the off-season.

And people regularly bring up the hotels and the 115 charges so I don't quite understand saying "people are having a go at us over this but not them over that".

It's not a past time to spite your club, ****ing hell. Again I was just as critical of villa and Chelsea swapping kids but their supporters didn't have as much of a whinge about it.

You can't control your clubs actions but you don't have to defend or get your backs up over it quite so much.

 

[moomba]

I really don't want to go around in circles. My original complaint was incorrect to reference youth sales & contract stretching as they're both perfectly legal. I should have referenced the 115 charges & hotel sales as similar PSR skirting behaviour as this swap deal.

We have nothing to do with your situation.

We've not been accused of stretching or manipulating the rules. Or skirting PSR. We've effectively been accused of false accounting and fraud.

I don't know why you need to reference us at all. We have nothing to do with anything you've been accused of and if anything, were the side that has campaigned more than any (including Everton who have supported the current rules for a decade) to avoid clubs like Everton getting themselves in the position they've found themselves in.

In time we'll be found guilty or not guilty of offences and we'll still have nothing to do with the situation Everton find themselves in. That's all down to their own decisions, not City's, not Chelseas.

Furthermore I suspect your swaps will be passed through without any drama and all your bitching about City and Chelsea will be for nothing.

 

[chef]

Isn’t there a bit of glass houses with this?

You got around rules by your owner selling hotels between companies he owns/“is very invested in” to get around a potential PSR charge, absolute tumbleweeds.

There was tumbleweeds as it's legal to do, the clubs in the league voted on this already. And we arent the first club(or last) to do it.

So what rules have we broken?

 

[glenferry23]

There was tumbleweeds as it's legal to do, the clubs in the league voted on this already. And we arent the first club(or last) to do it.

So what rules have we broken?

Yes I am interested to hear more about these alleged emails from the PL, I’m not sure what they can do to “punish” these transactions.

It’s clear what’s underpinning these deals, clubs are exploiting the loopholes prior to June 30. Whilst it doesn’t make it right, can’t see what rules are being broken as these are permissible under the framework the PL have implemented.

 

[ossie_21]

There was tumbleweeds as it's legal to do, the clubs in the league voted on this already. And we arent the first club(or last) to do it.

So what rules have we broken?

What rules have Everton broken?

Or are the premier league allowed to dictate player values?

You see where I’m going with this?

 

[SM]

What rules have Everton broken?

Or are the premier league allowed to dictate player values?

You see where I’m going with this?

Who said you'd broken any rules?