Coach Football department changes going forward

[immortalmike]

I like that the club has taken 5 years and had a multi layered process including a full review to tell them what my dumb arse could have in 2018.

Bev is a very good coach who should not and can not do everything. He needs and has needed support.

 

[VitalDread]

The most successful coach in our history is our current coach. He coached us in a grand final 23 games ago. There are no better alternatives now and it’s impossible to imagine there would be at any stage during 2023. He is not perfect and I hope meaningful changes are made over summer. Re-signing him is one of the all time no-brainers, just behind re-signing Bont and Naughty.

i 1000% agree but i still would have liked to wait a little bit longer, i just feel like Bevo would fall back into his bad selection comfort with a deal already done

I kinda want him to earn it this year (Regardless of his past), we should be a top 4 side and now that we have the sweeper defender and second ruck

There is no excuse for us this year

 

[Doggies_13]

I would have waited till 6-10 rounds into this season to see if the trend down continued or whether there was a trend back upwards. Seems a strange decision to jump at a renewal in the off-season when it was obvious to almost all that we are coming off a very much underperforming season.

Whether there were concerns we’d lose him if we didn’t sign him before the season and there isn’t much out there to replace him at the end of the season played a part.

If we renew him we need to continue to improve the people around him. Lade was a good start but we need to go again next off season and being some more talent and experience into the assistant coaches.

 

[immortalmike]

"Most successful coach in our history" is right up there with "smartest Bomber supporter" for mine.

Not a great field.

 

[dogwatch]

I would have waited till 6-10 rounds into this season to see if the trend down continued or whether there was a trend back upwards. Seems a strange decision to jump at a renewal in the off-season when it was obvious to almost all that we are coming off a very much underperforming season.

Whether there were concerns we’d lose him if we didn’t sign him before the season and there isn’t much out there to replace him at the end of the season played a part.

If we renew him we need to continue to improve the people around him. Lade was a good start but we need to go again next off season and being some more talent and experience into the assistant coaches.

I should have added to my earlier post: we do have a coach at the club who has a 100% winning record in AFL games.
Brendon Lade coached the Saints to a win when Ratten was out during Covid.

 

[dergert]

With this extra $500k getting pumped into our soft cap courtesy of the magic round, we have no excuse to not expand the coaching box now.

 

[JTCWBFC]

So the one new person we bring in was involved in this:

"The review identified the club had significant issues in the coaching department, which resulted in the decision to sack Ratten less than 100 days after he had been re-signed for two more seasons. The review found the Saints did not have the program in place to build a sustainable winning culture."

Forgive me for not being overly excited & feeling like we should have done more.

 

[ringa5]

I too have concerns about whether he is the right man, but if the club has indeed done a big review including interviewing players/staff/coaches etc and the outcome of all of that is a resounding, "He deserves a new contract and there are other things that need to change"... then that is surely more evidence that he's not the problem than we, as fans, have that he is?

There are so many reasons why we may have struggled last season - some confirmed, some unknown - and those inside the club are much better placed to make that decision than we are.

It's not realistic to take a "wait and see" approach in the current climate. If you were in Bev's shoes and your club told you to "wait and see" as a premiership coach, you would explore going elsewhere straight away and there would certainly be interested parties. The review was and is absolutely crucial before offering him another contract - but if there is agreement that that is the right move across the club, of course he should get one.

All in favour of club now. As with Ratten only need to pay out 6 months anyway.Might as well sign Bev for 2 years.Hopefully he turns it into another premiership and becomes our Alex Ferguson or Sheedy.

 

[gordo2016]

So the one new person we bring in was involved in this:

"The review identified the club had significant issues in the coaching department, which resulted in the decision to sack Ratten less than 100 days after he had been re-signed for two more seasons. The review found the Saints did not have the program in place to build a sustainable winning culture."

Forgive me for not being overly excited & feeling like we should have done more.

Took them 4 years to decide Ratten couldn't develop a winning culture and had to hire outsiders to work it out. All their failings are due to their coaches, they reckon. Nothing wrong with their list management though, Lethers has been fantastic. Lade must have something going for him, was interviewed for the Essendon job and been in the system a long time. Don't really care what St.Kilda think about him.

 

[dogwatch]

Took them 4 years to decide Ratten couldn't develop a winning culture and had to hire outsiders to work it out. All their failings are due to their coaches, they reckon. Nothing wrong with their list management though, Lethers has been fantastic. Lade must have something going for him, was interviewed for the Essendon job and been in the system a long time. Who gives a **** what St.Kilda think?

Yes it has the whiff of "find a fall guy and put it all on him" then all the others with a share of responsibility can be let off the hook completely. Then say to the public and the media and the members "see, we did something decisive! Problem solved."

They must have learned that trick from AFL HQ.

Winning culture must start at the top and permeate the whole organisation. You can't just order a pallet load of it from Bunnings.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Heard another disappointing story regarding Grant recently. A few from the footy dept who had offers elsewhere tried contacting him to talk it through and see what opportunities there was to stay… he wouldn’t even return their calls.

We really need an experienced head of footy. Would he have gotten this gig if it was at any other club other than the one he played for?

Maybe the club had decided they were ok with letting them go? Strange not to return calls though.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Maybe the club had decided they were ok with letting them go? Strange not to return calls though.

Pretty poor to not have the respect to return calls for people who have been there a long time though.

For me it’s just more mounting evidence that Grant is by no means qualified or experienced enough to be in the role he’s in.

 

[lachy]

Pretty poor to not have the respect to return calls for people who have been there a long time though.

For me it’s just more mounting evidence that Grant is by no means qualified or experienced enough to be in the role he’s in.

So did your information come directly from one of those who allegedly did not receive a returned call or was it second hand and confirmed by a second source?

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[AJARWA]

Not having a go at you Woof but I think we need to dispense with the line that he is "the most successful coach in our history". While there's a decent case to be made (but could certainly be debated due to the list quality available to each coach) it makes it sound like he is better than anybody we've had going back 140 years and that he's untouchable. It's getting in the way of objective and constructive discussions about his current merits and shortcomings.

Apart from the fact that most arguments ignore our 9 flags in 27 years in the VFA (then a strong competition) there can simply be NO comparison between Footscray/WB after Fightback and whatever existed before.

The reasons are fairly obvious so I won't go into them in detail but they include the fact that we were run by a bunch of well-meaning amateurs for many decades (but who nevertheless managed to bankrupt the club of funds and footballing talent) and the fact that most of the current equalisation measures came into effect in the late 80s and early 90s, in particular the salary cap and the draft giving smaller clubs opportunities to succeed that they never had before. Also prior to 1972 finals was only played by the top 4. From 1972 to 1990 it was a top 5 and since 1994 it has been a top 8 so the proportion of teams making the finals and getting the double chance has increased significantly, even with the expanded competition. Combine that with the almost guaranteed promise of survival through AFL distribution of broadcast revenues and it rapidly becomes obvious that any club or coaching performance comparisons going back beyond 1990 are pretty meaningless.

So out of Wheeler, Joyce, Wallace, Rohde, Eade, McCartney and Beveridge I would probably put Beveridge just in front but he's not the messiah. Winning us a flag made him a legend but six seasons have passed since then and we have won finals in only one of those subsequent seasons.

FWIW, here's a table of coaches and their success rates since 1990. Of those I'd say Beveridge has had the best list consistently available to him, just ahead of Wallace and then Eade. (Wheeler deserves more credit than he has ever received IMO but that's a separate discussion.)

View attachment 1551997
Another observation is that Beveridge ranks ninth of current AFL coaches (minimum one season) in terms of overall winning percentage. Those ahead of him are (in order) C.Scott, McRae, Longmire, Clarkson, Hinkley, Goodwin, Simpson, Hardwick. He's definitely up there close to the better ones but overall is ranked about middle of the current pack.

So we're better off having the coach/assistant coach discussions in terms of what's been going right and wrong for the last 2 seasons (especially 2022), not the last 8.

I'm OK with re-signing him if there's been a proper and objective review that recommends it but it mustn't be unconditional. As you say, some changes need to be made.

We need to be ruthlessly focussed on a top four finish. What happened in 2016 is now in the annals of past glories. The satisfaction of it mustn't cloud our decisions about what's best for us in 2023 and beyond. Right now my biggest concern is our inability to sustain a solid competitive effort for four quarters in big matches. Not once or twice but many times since we ran out for the 2021 GF.

Well said.

 

[VitalDread]

Lade will work closely with Marc Webb, who had been midfield coach but now has a greater focus on stoppages and opposition strategy, along with other responsibilities. Dave Newton, who previously managed the club’s next generation academy, has shifted to football operations, working closely with football department chief Chris Grant.

Via the Age

 

[Ash1337]

Lade will work closely with Marc Webb, who had been midfield coach but now has a greater focus on stoppages and opposition strategy, along with other responsibilities. Dave Newton, who previously managed the club’s next generation academy, has shifted to football operations, working closely with football department chief Chris Grant.

Via the Age

Good to see Grant getting help. Sounds like They split up the role Maple had between Lade and Newton. Must of been difficult for Maple to work both areas.

 

[fred cook]

Good to see Grant getting help. Sounds like They split up the role Maple had between Lade and Newton. Must of been difficult for Maple to work both areas.

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[dergert]

Maple was seen as Bevo's right hand man.

We've replaced him internally with a fella that hasn't played AFL (again)... Have I got this wrong?

 

[VitalDread]

Maple was seen as Bevo's right hand man.

We've replaced him internally with a fella that hasn't played AFL (again)... Have I got this wrong?

Newton works for the NGA system and doesn't have direct ties to Bevo and match day

he does a lot of development coaching as part of his already existing role

 

[doggies ftw]

Newton works for the NGA system and doesn't have direct ties to Bevo and match day

he does a lot of development coaching as part of his already existing role

Yeah but now it sounds like he’s taken Maples direct role, another low key internal signing…

This off season has been seriously underwhelming to this point…

 

[dergert]

Yeah but now it sounds like he’s taken Maples direct role, another low key internal signing…

This off season has been seriously underwhelming to this point…

The club has made a big deal about getting support in for Bevo and yet here we are with just one addition and someone internally promoted. Maple has a lot of tactical and analysis input, will Newton have the same?

 

[doggies ftw]

The club has made a big deal about getting support in for Bevo and yet here we are with just one addition and someone internally promoted. Maple has a lot of tactical and analysis input, will Newton have the same?

Yep Mindblowing we haven’t done more - I like what I’ve heard about Newton and he seems to get a lot of credit from the NGA kids in their development, but from the outside again he seems like a promotion into an AFL list development role would make a lot more sense than football operations. We really need experience in Maples old role

 

[Maverick Dog]

Jobs for the boys it appears. Bevo appointment no doubts and the boys clubs gets bigger and he surrounds himself with underqualified people who owe him.

peter Rohde could coach this team to a top 6 finish. No excuse for Bevo this year. Need to finish top 4 but we r stupid enough to give him an extension and pay rise.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Yep Mindblowing we haven’t done more - I like what I’ve heard about Newton and he seems to get a lot of credit from the NGA kids in their development, but from the outside again he seems like a promotion into an AFL list development role would make a lot more sense than football operations. We really need experience in Maples old role

He was GM of Football Operations in the WRFL for a number of years. He’s not exactly coming in green with a lack of experience.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Our defence this year was truly laughable.

I wouldn't be extending any deals until we see significant improvement - regardless of credits in the bank.