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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Moved Thread For non vic fans who disdain the AFL competition
- Thread starter Carringbush2010
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- Thread starter
- #127
Can I ask why?
- Thread starter
- #128
Nup, coz my club is not in it.Funny thread tbh. CB2020 has finally cracked and is going to support the all Victorian VFA.
Enjoy
Are you going to answer the question?
So you answered your own whinging with this post as to why interstate supporters still follow the AFL despite the inequalities?
Good job
- Thread starter
- #130
Haven't been whinging at all, as much as you wish I was, still haven't had an answer as to why the constant whinging from non vic fans, yet still follow.So you answered your own whinging with this post as to why interstate supporters still follow the AFL despite the inequalities?
Good job
Are you going answer the question?
Your thread, you link them
What do you mean why? I dont like those teams? is that what you want me to say?
- Thread starter
- #133
I have stated one answer, there are no others.Your thread, you link them
That answer doesn't stop or justify the whinging though.
- Thread starter
- #134
You stated you'd rather Freo beat vic teams, even though Freo are your enemy.
So why don't you like vic teams?
This thread has deteriorated quickly due to OP showing his true colours.
I'm out.
Because of the whole reason this thread exists? I have stated my reasons in a comment earlier.
Youre asking some real silly questions mate
- Thread starter
- #137
- Thread starter
- #138
They're not silly questions.
You dislike certain vic teams because they're vic? Or is it something else?
Reasonable questions.
With all due respect I think Carringbush2010 is one of the more knowledgeable and better posters on BF.
In my opinion they are few and far between.
In my opinion they are few and far between.
- Thread starter
- #140
Thanks Sharky!
I think that praise is unwarranted though. Far more knowledgeable posters on BF, you're one of them.
The thing is mate that you are wrong. We live in a sheep world. Whatever works.
The fans should always be bigger than our opinion. Unfortunately now it clearly isn’t. That’s a huge shame.
Many of your points are% legitimate and I totally sympathise with (esp with lack of SANFL, WAFL and other state league recognition)
I am genuinely sorry that non-victorian fans like you feel disillusioned and disenfranchised with our great game and football league.
I will admit I do not appreciate calls from several of your non Victorian club supporters calling for several smaller Vic clubs to fold/relocate or merge. Definitely not accusing you of such a statement, but it's a common theme amongst many discontented non Victorian supporters.
% legitimate and I totally sympathise with (esp with lack of SANFL, WAFL and other state league recognition)I don’t quote very often but will as this is an amazing subject and at the heart of what the AFL means to an interstate team supporter.
I really respect Caringbush and his real politik about money, history and pragmatism.
However, it doesn’t change the fact I am totally disenchanted with the AFL.
As I watch the finals I feel a totally excluded cash cow satellite. I support the equal biggest club in the league and feel massively undervalued.
I think in the first 15 years the AFL moved forward removing home MCG finals and ridiculous travel.
I’ll never forget how shattered my Eagles looked when they came out of the change rooms after the 1991 prelim. That was pure consecutive weeks of travel because we lost to Hawthorn in week 1. It wouldn’t have mattered if Hawthorn lost as the GF was still in Melbourne.
What saddens me most is that the reaction to interstate success was an enquiry and yet now the reaction to interstate failure isn’t an enquiry.
The last 20 years have been about prioritising the large Victorian clubs and I get the financial and historical reasons for this.
I think there are four distinct groups in the AFL: Large Vic (AFL priority) and small Vic (historically retained but not a priority) then Large Interstate (Cash cow) and small interstate (development priority to grow game and provide first round trades back to Large Vic).
To get people like me back the league has to become truly national. I am bitterly disappointed that Richard Goyder hasn’t trumpeted this and fought for equity.
I think about how we can fix this and think the answer is a truly interstate Chairman and CEO who look at the AFL in Melbourne as an outsider.
Watching the finals I feel remote. Even if we make it you need to spend thousands on a GF ticket just on the chance we may make it.
The only way to get me back is equity. That means:
- an 18 round season when Tas join
- no extra rivalry match ups that dilute the fixture.
- all interstate clubs play Vic teams at the vic team home ground, not Darwin or Tas.
- Collingwood play teams at the opponents home ground (marvel, gmhba)
- rotating GF
When something is broken, brave people fight to change the status quo and don’t accept it. The AFL is broken for most interstate fans who feel they and the small Vic clubs exist to facilitate the large Vic clubs and their history.
A competition is a blend of financial and fairness. I understand the financial reasons but it’s a sporting competition!
I feel the AFL has lost sight of that.
A disenchanted Eagles supporter who wants equity with the big Vic clubs as we are just as big and important.
Said with respect to all clubs and a desire to include all in a fairer way.
- Thread starter
- #143
Great post Faz,
I imagine you have a wafl club you follow, maybe two now that the eagles are a member, it definitely has more equity than our rebranded vic comp.
Thank you for detailing your misgivings about our inequitable comp, there are reasons for them, I won't go into detail because they've been explained ad nauseam on these boards.
And in my honest opinion the comp can't leveled any further unless there's major detriment to the original vic clubs, and by extension their paying fans and members.
I'm going to ask you the question, why do non vic fans who are obviously heavily disenfranchised with this competition still follow this competition?
Would you be happy if we went back to state league comps? Obviously they'd be more equitable for obvious reasons.
So here is one issue I have mate.
The AFL for Preliminary final weekend could give all sides a minimum 7 day break but instead they will force the giants to play on Friday night when they could easily of fixtures the Pies Giants game on the Saturday.
So all sides get a 7 day break except the Giants.
You can’t tell me this is right in any possible way. Such a simple fix but it’s not considered.
I know you will say it’s just the way it is but cmon mate it’s totally unprofessional and nit acceptable for an élite national comp.
Do you agree?
- Thread starter
- #145
The lions don't.
We could have a double header Friday night, of course HQ won't go for that.
And to be fair to the team that finished top they deserve the biggest break before the big dance, instead of the team that finished 2nd having no disadvantage in that respect.
And those that win through from below 1st and 2nd shouldn't have the same allowances should they.
Not sure this is thread relevant though.
Also the prelims are not locked in yet.
The lions don’t what?
- Thread starter
- #147
Well if they play Saturday they get one less day of break.
As it should be, they finished 2nd, they play the 2nd prelim final.
Has always been that way, the team that finishes top gets the advantage break wise in finals.
Great Question Carringbush
I still attend every Eagles game as I am totally bought in to West Coast and WA footy. To understand why you need to look at what Australian rules football means to me as a Pom who migrated to Perth. I regularly attended WAFL and Eagles games in the 80's and 90's before returning to live in London for 20 years.
In London I regularly watched Fulham FC at Craven Cottage with my uncle who was once a Fulham shareholder. I'm a hugely invested Fulham FC supporter who sits up and watches every game. I returned to Perth two years ago and returned to watching Subiaco and the Eagles membership I have shared with my brother and friend for 30 years.
My Eagles journey started with me attending the Eagles first practice match and VFL game in Perth. I lived in Melbourne in the early 1990's and sat in the Eagles cheer squad at games. I don't think many modern fans will understand how rudely and dismissively we were treated by Vic supporters.
I then moved back to Perth and worked at a Hotel owned by Eagles players.
I gave up a lot for the Eagles. Subiaco won the last WAFL premiership before the Eagles in 1986 and were on the verge of a dynasty until the Eagles squad and other VFL teams ate up most of our elite players. But I made the calculation that although it was an expanded VFL and would be extremely inequitable at the start, progress would be made and we would reach our equitable national competition.
Everything was going the right way until 2005/2006 ish when the Victorian Clubs, Victorian AFL cabal and Victorian Government decided interstate teams were winning too many premierships and moved focus to retaining in built advantages for large Vic clubs.
So now we understand why I can never walk away from something I have been closely invested in for 35 years. I naturally want to fight the inequity and the entitlement and privilege large Vic club supporters feel.
I admire your pragmatism Carringbush, it and my lived experiences have provided me clarity of West Coast's purpose in the AFL. We are a satellite cash cow.
Such a shame considering the idealistic and pure notions I walked into Subiaco Oval with on 29 March 1987. I'm proud of the massive role my club has played in saving the VFL and how we effectively self fund WA football with our maturing little brother.
I just despair about the future as the AFL, Victorian centric AFL media and Victorian Government have used the last 20 years to cement inequities that favour the large Vic clubs.
The league has to become truly national. I think the answer is a truly interstate Chairman and CEO who look at the AFL in Melbourne as an outsider.
The only way to get me back is equity. That means:
- text in the AFL organisational company policy about the fact the AFL primarily exists as a football competition based on an equitable draft (No NGA or priority picks), fixturing and club rights and that financial success exists to support that and it must not be ignored for financial reasons (MCG Contract or rivalry match ups)
- an 18 round season when Tas join where we all play each other once with the return game the next season
- no extra rivalry match ups that dilute the fixture (Eagles v Dockers or Carlton v Collingwood)
- Interstate clubs play away games at the small Vic team home ground, not Darwin or Tas
- Small Vic teams play their home games against Large Vic at their ground (marvel, gmhba), not the MCG
- rotating GF (MCG, Optus, MCG, AO, MCG, Sydney, MCG, Gabba) in odd years
- Mandated diversity in AFL Media with more people from outside the connected ex player Vic football community hosting shows from Adelaide and Perth
- Richard, Gil and Andrew to be accountable by coming on ABC Perth Sportstalk to answer questions from people like me (ABC Perth have asked for 56 weeks running now and I know they get on Vic radio)
This is all my opinion and open to interrogation and alternate views. I just wish we could all recognise the compromises we have made and need to make going forward. At the moment it seems small Victorian and Interstate clubs make most of the compromises.
It was my understanding it’s about all teams getting the same break as a minimum for the following weeks game. It’s not about giving the highest team a longer break. Never has been.
Giants will play next week after a 6 day break and there is no reason at all for it.
- Thread starter
- #150
When the league rebranded itself as the AFL with two new teams, I remember feeling threatened that clubs might fold permanently. I personally wasn't rude or dismissive and not saying that was warranted. But that probably explains the opposition to a rebranded comp at the time.
South Melbourne & Fitzroy fans have had that threat realised, they're clubs are gone forever from what they knew.
I think the league regrets the loss of these two clubs and their fan bases.
Yes there has been progress, it can only get to a point where it no longer impedes on the largest market base.
I think this gets to the crux of it, being a Perth resident, I often hear the conversations where the narrative is anti vic at games and at work.
It's a club competition, none of the non vic clubs were franchised for the purposes of opposing vic at large, but that seems the wish sometimes, 'down the vics'.
It's gives the impression of being bitter and petulant.
The reason those big vic clubs are entitled is because they're the founding members of this competition, so they'e entitlement is warranted.
Without going into detail, even if the vfl somehow folded, there'd always be enough public interest for the bulk of the vic teams. In short they would have returned in some way shape or form.
There's no known universe where Collingwood or Carlton for example just die off forever after 100 years of history, the fan bases would ensured their survival
It's always been vic centric and always will be, why? I've mentioned this a gazillion times, the vic population outnumbers all other footy states and territories combined by more than 1 million people.
Until the non vic expands their market base, the bulk of the $ are coming from vic.
This isn't a deliberate ploy from HQ coz 'we hate non vics', yet it seems many non vic fans believe HQ is conspired against for this reason.
That's a pretty sad existence
I don't believe that's possible unless we have franchised vic teams, even then I don't think new vic teams for the purposes of making a truly equitable league would garner much if any public interest.
But the $ is king, like anything else in life HQ's biggest interest is the $, there's no balancing.
It's not possible to have a truly national comp that is based on a state competition, that is what we have, and unfortunately we've lost two clubs from this competition as a result
To have a truly national comp, we either have a conference model, or new franchise vic teams. As I said the latter wouldn't garner much interest.
A conference model, where we an all vic, all wa, all sa etc. is what I'd prefer, and maybe we get back two clubs in Fitzroy and South Melbourne.
Yeah I know that would mean the vic conference would have the highest profile and attract the best players etc. etc. but that's not a lot different to the vic centric we have now in this expanded vfl that all the non vic fans complain about.
The difference between wa, sa and vic is that wa and sa people have a league they can turn to, vic people don't have another league they can turn to. Their clubs are already in this league.
Lastly thanks for the civil conversation Faz
