for shame Ian Healy......

[Darky]

Originally posted by Perty4
Just made a top score 46 in the first innings of the Australian youth test against england. Bats at 7 for Richmond.

BTW, he made a duck in the second innings!

Batting position in district teams can be misleading sometimes. Ian Hewett for instance has batted at around 5 for his district side for the last few years, but bats much lower down for Victoria on the rare occasions he's selected.

 

[Dogwatcher]

A keeper here too - and i stand by what I typed b4, sorry Zombie.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Zombie
What a load of crap

Australia averaged slightly over 16 wickets per test during Healy's career. They've averaged 18 during Gilchrists. More wickets, more chances.

You can keep your load of crap.

, healy kept to some of the best bowlers of all time. Alderman on his record breaking Ashes series, Warne for the majority of Warne's career, McDermott, Reid, Hughes, McGrath, etc.

Gilchrist has kept to McGrath, Warne, Gillespie, McGill, Lee etc

You can't use that argument, Healy had the majority of the same bowlers Gilchrist has had but whilst they were in their prime.

Despite McGrath and Warne both averaging more wickets per match during Gilchrists career than during Healy's.

Even if that doesn't convince you we will take out their Test performances and judge them purely on not international first class matches. Healy averaged 2.9 catches a match. Gilchrist averaged 4.1 catches a match.

Which again proves nothing as you don't know how many chances were created by the bowlers. You seem to be assuming it will be the same when in fact it is not.

But if you have to have it your way, we'll take byes into account. From each players first 10 test matches Healy average 7.8 byes per innings whilst Gilchrist kept his byes down to 5.2 an innings.

Lets have a little larger sample shall we. 6.3 over the full 39. It'll take a little longer to do Healy's. 39 down, 119 to go.

I take it from the fact that you're now only arguing about whether Gilchrist is better than Healy that you agree that he is not the best keeper in Australia.

 

[scmods]

Originally posted by Dave
Byes conceded is a better indicator of a keepers ability than dismissals per match.

If you're going to start adding up byes, make sure you don't count the ones from Brett Lee's bowling - nobody could stop those!

 

[Kenny_01]

Gilly does a great job stopping byes. Healy was probably better with the gloves, but all round Gilly is worth far more than Healy ever was.

 

[El Cid]

Keeping is way too overrated to mention Healy's name next to Gilchrist.
I bet even Boof could keep. Let's see, you catch the ball, (just like fielding, except you have gloves) and umm that's it really. Plus i've seen Gilchrist make more run-outs than other keepers, quicker stumpings and dives further than any other.

Good footwork might save a few runs over a day, but it isn't a patch on averaging 50 with the bat.

 

[Yianni]

Re: Re: for shame Ian Healy......

Originally posted by wagstaff
I'm sure no one knew how good Gilchrist would be with the bat when he began his Test career.

Interesting question. How DID Gilchrist bat before he was selected for Australia?

What was his 1st class average before he replaced Healy? Anyone?

 

[CarterS]

Originally posted by Dogwatcher
I think the selectors got their timing right when they made the swap.

He should have got the last test he was promised at the GABBA though.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Gilly does a great job stopping byes. Healy was probably better with the gloves, but all round Gilly is worth far more than Healy ever was.

As far as I know I've never disputed that.

That he's a great allrounder does not make him the best *keeper* in the country.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by Dave
As far as I know I've never disputed that.

That he's a great allrounder does not make him the best *keeper* in the country.

i think the notion of picking soley the best keeper is a bit outdated. the wicketkeeper spot comes as a package. if your keeper can't bat above 10 in the order, he really doesnt deserve a place in the side, no matter how good he is with the gloves.

having said that, if a keeper cannot hold his own with the gloves, missing say 2 chances a game, he should be expected to make at least 80 runs a test more than a keeper who would get everything.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by nicko18
i think the notion of picking soley the best keeper is a bit outdated. the wicketkeeper spot comes as a package. if your keeper can't bat above 10 in the order, he really doesnt deserve a place in the side, no matter how good he is with the gloves.

Not arguing that either.

having said that, if a keeper cannot hold his own with the gloves, missing say 2 chances a game, he should be expected to make at least 80 runs a test more than a keeper who would get everything.

At least.

 

[GoEagles]

Originally posted by CarterS
He should have got the last test he was promised at the GABBA though.

One last test at home may have turned into one last final series in Australia. The selectors made the right decision at the right time IMO.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by GoEagles
One last test at home may have turned into one last final series in Australia. The selectors made the right decision at the right time IMO.

i think what would have happened is that ian healy would have announced his retirement, knowing the selectors only gave him that game as a sendoff. he would have announced it prior to the game, and the gabba would have been packed. instead, it was a game where we saw the great adam gilchrist and scott muller debut.

 

[Bakes]

Originally posted by nicko18
scott muller

Awesome cricketer. Pitty about his bowling.....batting......throwing

 

[Darky]

Re: Re: Re: for shame Ian Healy......

Originally posted by Yianni
Interesting question. How DID Gilchrist bat before he was selected for Australia?

What was his 1st class average before he replaced Healy? Anyone?

His Sheffield Shield (not incl. Aus A & tour games) averages are as follows :

For NSW (not as wicketkeeper) :
1992-93 227 runs @ 28.37 & 8 catches
1993-94 43 runs @ 8.60 & 2 catches

For WA :

1994-95 358 runs @ 25.57 & 51 catches
1995-96 757 runs @ 50.46 & 50 ct, 4 st

Made his ODI debut 25/10/96 having made 1385 runs @ 32.98 in Sheffield Shield games.

1996-97 447 runs @ 31.92 & 52 ct, 2 st
1997-98 421 runs @ 60.14 & 42 catches
1998-99 418 runs @ 38.00 & 34 ct, 1 st

Made his Test debut 5/11/99 having made 2671 runs @ 36.09 in Sheffield Shield games.

 

[Darky]

At the time of his Test debut, Gilchrist had also played 76 ODIs, making 2376 runs @ 33.94, with 92 catches & 18 stumpings.