Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

[Mr Mojo Risin]

I think they're trying to think, and their brains can't football and think all at once, so they end up doing both badly.

There is a lot of truth to this when trying to remove bad habits and learn a game plan.

 

[Call Me Cake]

If we're going to be using injuries as an excuse every time the team shows insipidness and a lack of effort then we've truly fallen off the trajectory of what builds a solid team structure.

You look at other teams, who also suffer injuries to key players, and while they may not win games with as big of margins or may lose more of them, it won't be at the expense of trying or playing to a structure. The result isn't ideal but you walk away knowing you executed to the best of your ability because that's what the structure has provided - a structure which is handed down by the coach regardless of who is sitting in front of him.

We can talk about cakes all we like but if your entire trajectory, or layer, evades you and you endlessly make the same repeated obvious mistakes and only attempt 50 tackles a game as an entire unit then you have far deeper issues than injuries. That's a cultural and accountability/consenquence issue.

 

[Beerfish]

If we're going to be using injuries as an excuse every time the team shows insipidness and a lack of effort then we've truly fallen off the trajectory of what builds a solid team structure.

You look at other teams, who also suffer injuries to key players, and while they may not win games with as big of margins or may lose more of them, it won't be at the expense of trying or playing to a structure. The result isn't ideal but you walk away knowing you executed to the best of your ability because that's what the structure has provided - a structure which is handed down by the coach regardless of who is sitting in front of him.

We can talk about cakes all we like but if your entire trajectory, or layer, evades you and you endlessly make the same repeated obvious mistakes and only attempt 50 tackles a game as an entire unit then you have far deeper issues than injuries. That's a cultural and accountability/consenquence issue.

You don't think injuries have played any part at all in where we find ourselves currently? Is anybody actually blaming injuries exclusively for this?

 

[Call Me Cake]

You don't think injuries have played any part at all in where we find ourselves currently? Is anybody actually blaming injuries exclusively for this?

They may have played a part in our ability to win matches, but not in our reflection of effort coming away from them.

 

[Beerfish]

but not in our reflection of effort coming away from them.

What does that even mean?

Is anyone blaming losses on injuries alone?

 

[The Donners]

You don't think injuries have played any part at all in where we find ourselves currently? Is anybody actually blaming injuries exclusively for this?

Injuries have played no part in the lack of endeavour but perhaps they have in the inability to run both ways.

 

[Beerfish]

Injuries have played no part in the lack of endeavour but perhaps they have in the inability to run both ways.

injuries have played a part in the inability of the team to implement the system the coaching staff have been trying to implement. i think.

 

[Lore]

injuries have played a part in the inability of the team to implement the system the coaching staff have been trying to implement. i think.

I don’t recognise you with this avatar.

 

[Beerfish]

I don’t recognise you with this avatar.

i don't know how to respond to that

 

[Lore]

i don't know how to respond to that

Someone else has this avatar somewhere I think. I don’t remember who

 

[RearNaked]

Dodo should go before him but if we can get clarko we get clarko it’s simple

 

[JayDon]

To my surprise I'm hearing Clarkson is a big chance!?
Really!?
That would shake things up and attract talent that he would want.
Anyone else? We should be in the 5 year window.
We need something drastic. This might be it?

 

[JayJ20]

Am I the only one that wants nothing to do with Clarko? It's giving me Mick Malthouse at Carlton and Bomber Thompson and Woosha at Essendon vibes.

 

[brain taylor]

i think someone like clarkson or lyon would take one look at the way we chew up and spit out coaches, then block all calls from essendon.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Am I the only one that wants nothing to do with Clarko? It's giving me Mick Malthouse at Carlton and Bomber Thompson and Woosha at Essendon vibes.

Not the only one, no. In fact it's a pretty common take here.

Personally I'd love Clarko. I think we need some of his calibre over a greenhorn in Rutten. Clarko is in another league compared to those guys.

 

[blitzer]

Personally if Clarkson was available I'd be keen to get him. No idea how realistic that may or may not be.

I've been really disappointed at how our ability to execute a consistent game plan has actually got worse than last year. Its not all about wins and losses but even visually the way we play doesn't resemble anything approaching a top tier footy or one on the path to get there.
I look at a team like Adelaide who are no better than us really and are the only team putting out younger sides than we are and honestly its easier to see a path forward for them than us.

 

[bombreys]

i think someone like clarkson or lyon would take one look at the way we chew up and spit out coaches, then block all calls from essendon.

Who have we chewed up and spat out? If anything we’ve kept guys on too long.

 

[JayJ20]

Not the only one, no. In fact it's a pretty common take here.

Personally I'd love Clarko. I think we need some of his calibre over a greenhorn in Rutten. Clarko is in another league compared to those guys.

Clarko had a strong list compared to some of the Collingwood sides Malthouse coached to a grand final so I wouldn't say he is in another league. Bomber Thompson was also a strong coach.

How did he do after 2018 with an average list? Not great. People are still hanging on to what he did 6 years ago. The game has drastically changed since.

Suppose we were to get Clarko, how long will it take for fans to turn on him? They'll call him washed up and cooked within 2 seasons if we're still average. Some had already turned on Rutten 5 games into the season after an unexpected finals appearance in his first year.

This club is going nowhere if they fire Rutten within the first 5 years.

 

[ghostdog]

Wow.
Clarkson is not a panacea. He achieved premierships in a completely different context than what he would walk into at Tullamarine; different staff, different roles and responsibilities and a different list. There are no guarantees of success simply from bringing him in.

We're not Carlton - we have zero depth in our list to support any serious run to a finals campaign and simply bringing in Clarko won't change that.

Dumping Rutten so early without giving him the chance to rebuild and develop and manifest his system would simply continue the destabilisation and waste careers. As well, Brasher has already said outright that Rutten has the support of the board. Until that changes this isn't even a discussion.

People need to calm down.

 

[CBombers17]

I'm not saying Clarkson is the answer or that Ruttens needs to go- but if you look someone like Matthew's you can have a pretty big gap between flags at different clubs if you are good enough.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Clarko had a strong list compared to some of the Collingwood sides Malthouse coached to a grand final so I wouldn't say he is in another league. Bomber Thompson was also a strong coach.

They did not start with a strong list. They built a strong list which had a lot to do with Clarko and his coaching influence. Ultimately he was responsible for the team performing the way he did.

How did he do after 2018 with an average list? Not great. People are still hanging on to what he did 6 years ago. The game has drastically changed since.

Are we going to pretend like 2015 was 30 years ago? Footy hasn't changed that much since then. Bevo won the flag in 2016 yet nobody here would dispute him having what it takes to achieve glory again in 2022. Bulldogs even made it to a GF again in 2021. Was 5 years ago the cutoff for modern relevance?

After 2018 is a different story. I don't have all the details on a timeline but clearly there were issues with Clarko and the Board who both had different ideas where the club was it and where they wanted to go. Probably a bit of fatigue too. 2005 to 2021 - regardless of how good of a coach you are, 16 years is a long time in Footy. Probably every club needs a fresh perspective after that. Some coaches last a decade and have nothing to show for it.

Suppose we were to get Clarko, how long will it take for fans to turn on him? They'll call him washed up and cooked within 2 seasons if we're still average. Some had already turned on Rutten 5 games into the season after an unexpected finals appearance in his first year.

We're talking purely hypotheticals. I think Clarko would at least be afforded a pass until his 3rd season before criticism is valid, much like Rutten is now.

This club is going nowhere if they fire Rutten within the first 5 years.

Sure, that's your opinion. You could also look at it as the best coach of the modern era and probably of all time is looking for a new club. A legitimate hard ass to drive standards and whip our list into shape. We'd need our heads read if we didn't ask the question.

 

[JayJ20]

They did not start with a strong list. They built a strong list which had a lot to do with Clarko and his coaching influence. Ultimately he was responsible for the team performing the way he did.



Are we going to pretend like 2015 was 30 years ago? Footy hasn't changed that much since then. Bevo won the flag in 2016 yet nobody here would dispute him having what it takes to achieve glory again in 2022. Bulldogs even made it to a GF again in 2021. Was 5 years ago the cutoff for modern relevance?

After 2018 is a different story. I don't have all the details on a timeline but clearly there were issues with Clarko and the Board who both had different ideas where the club was it and where they wanted to go. Probably a bit of fatigue too. 2005 to 2021 - regardless of how good of a coach you are, 16 years is a long time in Footy. Probably every club needs a fresh perspective after that. Some coaches last a decade and have nothing to show for it.



We're talking purely hypotheticals. I think Clarko would at least be afforded a pass until his 3rd season before criticism is valid, much like Rutten is now.



Sure, that's your opinion. You could also look at it as the best coach of the modern era and probably of all time is looking for a new club. A legitimate hard ass to drive standards and whip our list into shape. We'd need our heads read if we didn't ask the question.

Bulldogs 2016 was the blueprint of the current era. Richmond took Bulldogs 2016 to another level. The game has changed a lot since Clarkson last won a premiership. From rule changes to ways of scoring etc. He has an average record in the modern era.
Clarkson didn't have a strong list in 2004, but it became very strong very quickly with priority picks. So yeah he did have a strong list. He built the foundation of his list in an era that is completely different to the modern game. We don't even have close to the talent Clarkson had at his disposal.

Fatigue with Clarko is exactly what I'm worried about. Can he really push through constant pressure by a big club like Essendon? He's already been there and done that. It's very Malthouse at Carlton. Clarkson is much more suited to the GWS and Gold Coast jobs as he will be given the time and day to do what he wants with a lot of talent at his disposal.

We're in no shape to be calling for someone's head 3 seasons in.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Bulldogs 2016 was the blueprint of the current era. Richmond took Bulldogs 2016 to another level. The game has changed a lot since Clarkson last won a premiership. From rule changes to ways of scoring etc. He has an average record in the modern era.
Clarkson didn't have a strong list in 2004, but it became very strong very quickly with priority picks. So yeah he did have a strong list. He built the foundation of his list in an era that is completely different to the modern game. We don't even have close to the talent Clarkson had at his disposal.

Fatigue with Clarko is exactly what I'm worried about. Can he really push through constant pressure by a big club like Essendon? He's already been there and done that. It's very Malthouse at Carlton. Clarkson is much more suited to the GWS and Gold Coast jobs as he will be given the time and day to do what he wants with a lot of talent at his disposal.u

West Coast won in 2018 and they had a similar style to Hawthorn's in years gone by. I don't subscribe to the theory he is outdated by any interpretation or can't adapt to changing conditions. That's what separates good coaches from great coaches.

Suggestions that Rutten and his assistants could make it work but Clarko and his assistants couldn't is truly a bizarre notion to me.

He had an average record with a below average list that was decaying and traded away picks to remain relevant. As I said, there was clearly a disconnect between where Clarko wanted to take the team and where the board wanted to take it. I doubt many coaches would want to hang around after 12~ years to start another rebuild and compete once again all whilst fighting internal issues at board level.

I think having a year off from the game would've given him a clear head. He made it very clear recently after his time in America with the GSW how much he missed the action. I think he is wise enough to know what he wants.

We're in no shape to be calling for someone's head 3 seasons in.

We're in no shape, alright.

 

[ant555]

They did not start with a strong list. They built a strong list which had a lot to do with Clarko and his coaching influence. Ultimately he was responsible for the team performing the way he did.



Are we going to pretend like 2015 was 30 years ago? Footy hasn't changed that much since then. Bevo won the flag in 2016 yet nobody here would dispute him having what it takes to achieve glory again in 2022. Bulldogs even made it to a GF again in 2021. Was 5 years ago the cutoff for modern relevance?

After 2018 is a different story. I don't have all the details on a timeline but clearly there were issues with Clarko and the Board who both had different ideas where the club was it and where they wanted to go. Probably a bit of fatigue too. 2005 to 2021 - regardless of how good of a coach you are, 16 years is a long time in Footy. Probably every club needs a fresh perspective after that. Some coaches last a decade and have nothing to show for it.



We're talking purely hypotheticals. I think Clarko would at least be afforded a pass until his 3rd season before criticism is valid, much like Rutten is now.



Sure, that's your opinion. You could also look at it as the best coach of the modern era and probably of all time is looking for a new club. A legitimate hard ass to drive standards and whip our list into shape. We'd need our heads read if we didn't ask the question.

Clarko is a great coach but to say he did not start with a strong list is not totally correct . Hodge Mitchell Lewis where already there and Buddy and Roughy came in the draft before he coached a game. No doubt he moulded the side into what it was.

 

[Call Me Cake]

The whole Mick Malthouse trope being brought up ad nauseum is pretty farfetched tbh.

Mick Malthouse was kicked out literally right after winning a flag. Any person in their right mind would have every right to feel scorned by that. He built that list and wasn't able to go the distance with it. Ever since the succession was planned out he didn't seem on board with it.

He also didn't win 4 flags in the one era.

Compare that with Clarko, who walked away on his own accord 5 years after his last flag with the Hawks team. He was also on record in multiple articles and videos (which I can reference) where he ponders stepping back from coaching the Hawks when he felt he couldn't do much else with them. He didn't claw at his position, he pulled away to allow Sam Mitchell to take full control (who, unlike Buckley, is a total nuff). He also won 4 flags, including an actual dynasty, it isn't unusual for a person to feel that they've gotten all they could from an institution. It happens to all of us.

And out of any person that deserves another go at it, you've gotta hand that to arguably the best coach of the modern era.

You cannot just compare the two like it's black and white, pardon the pun.