Fremantle 2007 = Richmond 2002

[_RT_]

Well it would seem the coach of Fremantle, Mr. Chris Connolly has caught Frawley Syndrome. It is that rare disease that seems to infect coaches that have not had that much success in their careers but seem to have 1 successful finals campaign and suddenly they believe they are a mere HFF or 2 from a Premiership.

Lets compare the 2 teams. Richmond in 2001 had a successful year under Danny Frawley making the PF and come trade time Mr. Frawley decided that the Tigers were a couple of HFF away from being a genuine contender hence the decision to trade away a first round selection in the last Super Draft, & Nick Daffy and recruit ready made players (Stafford, Hudson, Houlihan)in the hope of being a genuine threat. Result a slide down the ladder and another 4 years of frustration as sides that were below us at that time have gone on to win flags. Ladder Positions after those decisions were made 14th, 13th & 16th.

Fast Forward to the Fremantle Dockers of 2006. Had a successful year under Mr. Chris Connolly winning a lot of games in the second half of the year and ended with a PF berth where they lost to the Runners Up. Come trade time they also seem to believe they are a HFF or 2 away from being a serious contender and target Chris Tarrant, not a HFF at the Pies but likely to be at the Dockers, they also then go on and secure Dean Soloman and give away not just their first round selection, but a young Graham Polak, admittedly troubled but was picked 4 in the last super draft. They also managed to part with their third round selection as well. Result well only time will tell but there is an old saying that goes, 'Those that fail to learn from history and doomed to repeat it.'

Now a few questions for the Dockers fans on this board.

If you fail to make the GF in 2007 will this be the end for Connolly?
What sort of success do you expect in 2008-2011 after throwing away 2 of the first 3 picks you had in this draft?

Please try and answer these questions. They are legitimate concerns that you should have after all you do have a history of making rather dodgy choices when trade week/draft time come around.

 

[Ripper]

Some asute observations there. I will do my best to answer them in October 2007.

 

[sabre_ac]

.

If you fail to make the GF in 2007 will this be the end for Connolly?
What sort of success do you expect in 2007 after throwing away 2 of the first 3 picks you had?

If we fail to take home a flag while Tarrant is around....The gamble didnt pay off.

.


Please try and answer these questions. They are legitimate concerns that you should have after all you do have a history of making rather dodgy choices when trade week/draft time come around.

Post 1999....Our draft choices have been exceptional.
Trade wise, some winners some losers.

As it stands we are one of the flag favourites and rightly so.

Hawks, Richmond, Doggies, Carlton all claim to have young excellent lists, much like the freo of the past.

How many will capitalise and take home flags? Who knows....

We must strike while the iron is hot.

 

[_RT_]

Some asute observations there. I will do my best to answer them in October 2007.

WHy can't you answer these 2 questions as they are asking what you expect to happen:
1. If you fail to make the GF in 2007 will this be the end for Connolly?
2. What sort of success do you expect in 2007 after throwing away 2 of the first 3 picks you had?

 

[Reveler]

Now a few questions for the Dockers fans on this board.

If you fail to make the GF in 2007 will this be the end for Connolly?
What sort of success do you expect in 2007 after throwing away 2 of the first 3 picks you had?

Please try and answer these questions. They are legitimate concerns that you should have after all you do have a history of making rather dodgy choices when trade week/draft time come around.

someone has done this comparision already, and the stats do look concerning, but they are just statistics.

Answers to your Questions

If you fail to make the GF in 2007 will this be the end for Connolly? No, I don't think so. I think if we finish top 4 again he will keep his job.

What sort of success do you expect in 2007 after throwing away 2 of the first 3 picks you had? This is one of those troll questions. Firstly very rarely would pick 8/13 contribute largely to their first year campaign. It would be better to look at the effect this will have over the next 5-6 years. A few people on the freo board think it will have a big effect in 5 years time. Secondly your assuming that Tarrant and Solomon won't be of any value.

 

[_RT_]

someone has done this comparision already, and the stats do look concerning, but they are just statistics.

Answers to your Questions

If you fail to make the GF in 2007 will this be the end for Connolly? No, I don't think so. I think if we finish top 4 again he will keep his job.

What sort of success do you expect in 2007 after throwing away 2 of the first 3 picks you had? This is one of those troll questions. Firstly very rarely would pick 8/13 contribute largely to their first year campaign. It would be better to look at the effect this will have over the next 5-6 years. A few people on the freo board think it will have a big effect in 5 years time. Secondly your assuming that Tarrant and Solomon won't be of any value.

Tarrant maybe of some value but regarding Soloman he was not able to get a new deal from a club that had finished second last and yet the Dockers deem he as valuable. I will change the second question then and make it what sort of success do you expect in 2009-2011 when Tarrant and Soloman along with most of the list will be in their late 20's-early 30's and you may or may not have won the Flag between now and then.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Trade wise, some winners some losers.

The only good trade you've had was Josh Carr and thats because he demanded to go home and Port wasn't going to just let him go ala Nick Stevens.

 

[Roundhouse]

Tarrant maybe of some value but regarding Soloman he was not able to get a new deal from a club that had finished second last and yet the Dockers deem he as valuable. I will change the second question then and make it what sort of success do you expect in 2009-2011 when Tarrant and Soloman along with most of the list will be in their late 20's-early 30's and you may or may not have won the Flag between now and then.

It depends a lot on our lot draft picks this year, and our rookie listings, as well as our drafting in 2008, 2009, and 2010, and the number of talented WA players who wish to return to WA.

Our rookie list has been emptied this year, and given our success in finding good players through the rookie list in the past, I am confident we will again fill it with some talent.

Our middle to late draft picks have not been too bad lately either, so I don't think we should write of this draft as a complete loss for us just yet. We could easily snare another Mundy, or Crowley with later picks this year.

Next year, we will probably take all of our draft picks, and maybe trade players for a few more. Some of the players we pick up could be ready to make an impact by the time 2010/11 roll around.

There also seem to be a number of young WA players at other clubs that express the desire to move back to WA each year. These players could be used to strengthen the side when the current crop starts to retire.

I think Freo have traded for the now, but they haven't mortgaged the future by any means.

 

[pav_is_god]

Tarrant maybe of some value but regarding Soloman he was not able to get a new deal from a club that had finished second last and yet the Dockers deem he as valuable. I will change the second question then and make it what sort of success do you expect in 2009-2011 when Tarrant and Soloman along with most of the list will be in their late 20's-early 30's and you may or may not have won the Flag between now and then.

If we've won a flag then it really doesn't matter if we drop out of contention in that period and begin rebuilding. Besides, we've got quite a few handy players in the 20-22 age bracket at the moment that will be in their prime from 2009-20011. Whether they'll be as good as Pavlich, J. Carr, Bell, Tarrant etc only time will tell.

 

[goodie]

yep if freo dont win the flag in 06 or 07 they will be gone.

 

[sabre_ac]

The only good trade you've had was Josh Carr and thats because he demanded to go home and Port wasn't going to just let him go ala Nick Stevens.

Simmonds worked out pretty well for us.

Heath Black goes ok..

That is just off the top of my head

 

[SWANNIES RULE]

Nice troll.

 

[Kenny_01]

I'd imagine Koops for #19 (Mundy) was a win.

 

[goodie]

Simmonds worked out pretty well for us.

yeah!! thanks for giving us one of the current best ruckman in the league

 

[peppy la pew]

yep if freo dont win the flag in 06 or 07 they will be gone.

I've been told that drinking the bong water can muddle the brain, in your case, substitute brain for thought process

Besides you will end up with bad breath !

 

[_RT_]

Simmonds worked out pretty well for us.

Heath Black goes ok..

That is just off the top of my head

Worked well for us too, we both won while the Saints who were allowed to name their Tigers player were well served by taking Fiora.

 

[goodie]

I've been told that drinking the bong water can muddle the brain, in your case, substitute brain for thought process

Besides you will end up with bad breath !

pretty much what im saying is that Freo is the most over rated club in the afl. the sooner you get rid of that idiot coach of yours you will win the flag.

 

[zero]

geez, i hope not.

im not that annoyed about polak, we have plenty of great KPP players ahead of him, but i was always a fan of medders, who is a long term replacement for farmer, who is 30. and knowing this draft, where there is 5 or 6 real guns, you can be sure that one of them was going to slip to 8 because some bloody team is willing to pass up a selwood because they need a KP defender and will therefore take mackenzie (or whatever).

plus i think tarrant is a talentless ********.

bad trade all round.

 

[Roundhouse]

geez, i hope not.

im not that annoyed about polak, we have plenty of great KPP players ahead of him, but i was always a fan of medders, who is a long term replacement for farmer, who is 30. and knowing this draft, where there is 5 or 6 real guns, you can be sure that one of them was going to slip to 8 because some bloody team is willing to pass up a selwood because they need a KP defender and will therefore take mackenzie (or whatever).

plus i think tarrant is a talentless ********.

bad trade all round.

What's this "we" business Freagle?

 

[rgauci]

If you really want an answer here it is, this is a cut/copy job of a few posts i did a few weeks ago....

POST 1

To all those who think we have no youngsters and are doomed to bottom out sometime in 3-4 years....

I tend to disagree. We have lots of youngsters and could quite easily snatch gems later in the draft who could be better than the 1st rounders.

Robert Warock was pick 42 last year, he's a 205cm ruckman who gave Leuenberger (touted top 5 from this year) a bath a WAFL level.

Leuenberger is around the same height, and actually weighs more than Warnock. So the argument that Warnock is more developed is bollocks. But i will concede that chances are Leuenberger will be better. The whole 18 year old playing a 19 year old.

We have Crowley (21), Drum (19), Duffield (21), Mundy (21), Murphy (21), Peake (23), Sandilands (23), Schammer (21), Warnock (19), Dodd (23), Who have all shown enough to suggest they won't be out of their depth at the top level. All but Warnock are yet to make their debut. And most of that list are or will be regulars by next year.

Our only losses in the next 3 years (presuming you play until 31):
Bell, Parker, Cook, McManus, Farmer (Players over 28)

We'll be in trouble when this group are 30ish:
Pavlich (24), McPharlin (24), Grover (26), Longmuir (25), J.Carr (26), M.Carr (27), Hasleby (25), Hayden (25), Headland (25), Tarrant (25), Solomon (26),

But in 6 years time you would hope to have had enough kids come into the club to see the above players out without a hickup. (note i contradict myself a little later, i eventually concede after this group retires we'll probably bottom out.)

What people haven't realised is the club has completely cleared out its rookie list. So in essence we should bring 7 new faces to the club next year. Of which only 3 need to make it to call 2006 draft a successful one. And looking at the GF, one can see that rookie spots are very valuable.


POST 2

I could of included Dunn, Ibbotson, Gilmore, Campbell, but i wanted to show you a list of youngsters that are definites.

Though its scary with the group around 25. We will bottom out after that at some point.

But the theory that our window is 2 years is bollocks. Its 5-6 years.

Of the 5 that we'll lose in the next 3 years:

Cook, Parker, McManus, Farmer, Bell.

Only Bell and Farmer are truly hard to replace. Parker, Cook and McManus have been great this year. A bit of a reshuffle with Drum, Duffield and Soloman could see Cook, McMaus and Parker leave without the club feeling too much of a glitch. Apart from the sentimental value, they are great servants of the club but aren't key components of the team. Not that they haven't contributed this year, just saying others could contribute equally.

Farmer and Bell on the other hand are harder to replace, though forward pocket can be filled by an exuberant 20 year old with a bit of dash and flare.

Bell is, irreplaceable. Though Schammer seems and always has been an understudy. People forget he's only 21. Could be our 1st 300 game player. Though the big Pav could beat him there.

QED.

 

[ImperialPurple]

The only good trade you've had was Josh Carr and thats because he demanded to go home and Port wasn't going to just let him go ala Nick Stevens.

Not true - other good trades in the last 5 years:

Luke McPharlin as part of the Croad deal
Pick 17 for Jeff Farmer
Troy Simmonds (wasn't going to get 5 years at Freo) for Heath Black (suits our needs more)
Leigh Brown for pick 13 (Byron Schammer)
Steven Koops (retired) for pick 19 (David Mundy - gun)
Adam McPhee (great player when fit) + pick 5 (Jared Brennan - inconsistent) for Des Headland (inconsistent) and pick 55 (Ryan Crowley - gun)
Picks for Josh Carr (dead-set gun)

Not suggesting we "won" all those trades - just that they were good trades for us... pretty fair trades on the other sides also. But to suggest that JCarr was the "only good trade" for Freo is absolute bollocks.

Out of those players that we traded for / drafted with picks we traded for, I would suggest that McPharlin, Farmer, Black, Schammer, Mundy, Crowley and JCarr will all be a part of the team that presses for a premiership in the next 1-3 years, whereas Polak and Medhurst were struggling to get a game at Freo. No reason to say that Tarrant won't play a part of it also. Solomon we got for a downgrade of 5 places on our 4th round pick, plus a pick we received from Richmond for Polak.... ie for free basically.

So, the net loss was a first round pick (yep, I know it's the superdraft). BUT, we got Tarrant (definitely Best 22) and Solomon (possible Best 22) for Medhurst (out of 22) and Polak (out of 22) + first round pick. If that helps then it's another good trade for us. If it doesn't, well we haven't done too badly in other trading over the past 5 years. To continually say that Freo trades badly is to hold on to vastly out-dates myths, from the 90s.

So in reality this is a very poor troll, as probably 8 of our top 22 have come to us via trade week in the last 5 years, the rest through regular drafting, and very much from promoted rookies (Sandilands, Dodd, Grover, Hayden, Webster to name a few).

But meh - think what you want. I've said my bit, now troll to your hearts content....

 

[Ted Ed Fred]

Some asute observations there. I will do my best to answer them in October 2007.

Geez, you Freo fans are a confident bunch.

Just remember, there are 15 other teams just as desperate as you to win it, and history says that a team doesn't win a flag untill they've had 2-3 successive finals campaigns of experience at least.

 

[_RT_]

Call this thread a troll all you like the point was instead of putting up with Pav for AA constant threads about the Tigers (he follows them more than the Dockers) I wanted to get the point of view from other Freo fans as to why they are so confident and I also wanted to know if the success that you believe and the coach believes is so close what will happen if it does not come. Glad that I actually got some well thought out responses and as yet the great Pav for AA has yet to reply to these points yet continually asks for the response of Tigers fans. So again thank you to those that took the time to offer contructive responses. I don't claim to be the know all about the Dockers but trying to get responses out of some fans is not possible when all they are interested in is the opposition.

 

[Ripper]

Call this thread a troll all you like the point was instead of putting up with Pav for AA constant threads about the Tigers (he follows them more than the Dockers) I wanted to get the point of view from other Freo fans as to why they are so confident and I also wanted to know if the success that you believe and the coach believes is so close what will happen if it does not come. Glad that I actually got some well thought out responses and as yet the great Pav for AA has yet to reply to these points yet continually asks for the response of Tigers fans. So again thank you to those that took the time to offer contructive responses. I don't claim to be the know all about the Dockers but trying to get responses out of some fans is not possible when all they are interested in is the opposition.

The one big difference I see is that Frawley got to the PF in his first season. He would have overestimated his list as He hadn;t had time to see the warts and all.

The Freo list is basically what CC has built.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Mate, the best thing to do with Pav_for_AA threads is the old "water off a duck's back". Seriously.

And, after 11 years of either total crap or terrible teasing, it's no wonder we're a little excited. Our club made a PF! We're excited. We know we have a good list, we know the boys were not satisfied with a PF, and we know that we're closer than we've ever been. I don't think we're "confident" in a smart-arse way... just that this is new ground and we're ready!! It's not going to fall on our plate - or on the club's plate for that matter - there's a huge step between a PF and making a GF... let alone winning it. But seriously - this is as close as we've ever experienced with our club and we're hanging for the new season. Bring it on!! Who knows what will happen - but if the club slides in 2007, we won't be taking it like we have in the past. We've had a taste and we want more. Is that wrong?????