Fremantle & Ross Lyon

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Hard to gauge after one game but they certainly would have liked to start the new year with a win.

 

[igon value]

How much time? Well more than 1 game for a start.

But are you saying we will make finals this year? If we don't, we still have an abnormally large number of veterans due to retire. If we don't make finals this year then when?

 

[LittleG]

IF Owen is in town for too long, expect Fyfe to head East. No one wants to go through a 4 year rebuild, when you're at your best physically for those 4 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[clivenator26]

Aim high...

Freo finished top of the ladder in 2015. The only players to go since then are Pav who was cooked last year and only played on because there were no alternatives coming through, McPharlin and some role players like Mzungu, De Boer, Mayne etc. who were all let go.

Sandilands, Johnson and Fyfe all back, Brad Hill, Hamling, Kersten and McCarthy all new blood, Ibbotson back and not fighting above his weight class, another pre-season into Weller, Blakely, Langdon etc. I'd have thought Freo would be aiming at least around 11-11 mark.

We can win 8-10 games IF a lot of things go right but too many IFs. Fyfe, Sandi & Bennell's health, the 4 new recruits fitting in, the young guys improving. Also I'd say most teams other than North, Hawks & Carlton are expected to do better than the previous year.

Read this Op. The TLDR is Fyfe (Bachar Houli) carried us over the line in close games to inflate our finishing position.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2015-the-aberration.1161049/#post-49355043

 

[woosha24]

Serious question - does anyone know if Lyon still thinks the side is in "premiership mode"?

The club has recently drafted ready-made players for immediate needs (McCarthy, Kersten), and Lyon seems to still be clinging to the scriptures of "da plan" like a drowning man to a life-preserver.

Has anyone at the club even muttered the "rebuild" word yet?

 

[Fear Boner]

Freo are easier to beat when they average 60 points a game

...

 

[igon value]

Serious question - does anyone know if Lyon still thinks the side is in "premiership mode"?

The club has recently drafted ready-made players for immediate needs (McCarthy, Kersten), and Lyon is still clinging to the scriptures of "da plan" like a drowning man to a life-preserver.

Has anyone at the club even muttered the "rebuild" word yet?

I don't believe he thinks in terms of premiership mode or rebuild mode. I think he simply aims to win each game, each week and picks the team accordingly, and doesn't really think much beyond that.

Which is why he looks utterly stumped at the moment. He is accustomed to winning more games than average, and that hasn't happened for a while.

 

[woosha24]

I don't believe he thinks in terms of premiership mode or rebuild mode. I think he simply aims to win each game, each week and picks the team accordingly, and doesn't really think much beyond that.

As admirable as it is to want to win every game at every opportunity, surely this kind of stubbornness is not a good quality in a coach?

If your team's struggling for a consistent period of time (last 12 months), surely you take a step back and go "yep, something's not working, lets try something else"?

I can tell you that Woosha's last couple of years at West Coast were frustrating as sh*t for this kind of thing. Its a couch-killer!

 

[Whatname]

If this was anyone else bar Lyon the thread would be closed, but we all know everyone loves to bag Ross.

FWIW Freo peaked in 2015 and most real Freo fans, not trolls who hide behind alias or have chips on their shoulder, knew after that Prelim it would be a long way back.
The club now knows its list is inadequate hence the changes made over the summer and there will be even more at the end of this year.
I place more blame on Lloyd and Bond than I do Lyon for our current predicament as they had their chances in 2010 -13 to recruit players that would have suited our needs instead they recruited role players, this was even before Ross arrived.

No one overrides Bond at Freo not even Ross.

Anyway facts are Ross is 1 game into a rebuild in which he has 4 years to get it right.
Bond wont sack him as it will make him look like the fool.
So you still have a couple more years to kick old Ross around, then you will be able to dance on his grave or grovel because he may just get it right.

 

[thewest]

I understand where the OP is coming from and it was a well written post too.

However, I do think it may be best to wait until around RD 7 or 8 to see how all sides have settled in to the season proper plus who has improved and who hasn't before any real judgement calls can be made.

Having said that, I am not sure that Ross Lyon is as good a coach as many believe he is. At the Saints he inherited a very good developing list and after getting to the big dance, he decimated it by topping up with very poor choices in the hope of prolonging their finals assault. He then jumped ship unexpectedly to Freo who also had a terrific developing list and took them to the GF. Now he faces a massive challenge with some fading stars and player turnover, I'll be interested to see if he jumps ship unexpectedly again (reckon he will go to the Pies next ).

The bloke is a hack with a coaching style from and old era of defensive, boring shit. Harvey would have brought them a cup if they didn't knife him.

The game at the weekend was almost unwatchable. What bothered me the most was that Geelong made a lot of mistakes that were not taken advantage of by Freo.

Kick them out of the comp and bring in a Tassie team.

 

[CakeEater]

Given that its been referred to as a restump, and its a 4 yr plan, yes they have.

As for drafting ready made players- an 18 yr old cant replace Pavlich immediately.

The issue lies with the failure not to generate a Pav/KPF replacement in 2010-12 (when Pav was getting to 28/29), which is the getting towards the end of a career.

Ideally 3+ years of learning under Pav who is one of the modern greats as a decent apprenticeship learning the tricks to the trade, then at 22-24 ready to step in and be the man.

Didnt work out that way, hence the need to source replacements who help bridge the gap and help make the team better

 

[donkeypunchd]

Given that its been referred to as a restump, and its a 4 yr plan, yes they have.

As for drafting ready made players- an 18 yr old cant replace Pavlich immediately.

The issue lies with the failure not to generate a Pav/KPF replacement in 2010-12 (when Pav was getting to 28/29), which is the getting towards the end of a career.

Ideally 3+ years of learning under Pav who is one of the modern greats as a decent apprenticeship learning the tricks to the trade, then at 22-24 ready to step in and be the man.

Didnt work out that way, hence the need to source replacements who help bridge the gap and help make the team better

You tried to buy an instant replacement by chasing Hogan

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Freo are going through a rebuilding phase that has come about much sooner than they would have liked due to a combination of injuries (including with recruits), delays in finding suitable replacements for aging star players, and rule changes that have really hurt their style under Lyon.

Still its very hard to judge from one game, and I reckon they'll be looking at a 9-14 finish this year, but making the 8 is not out of the realm of possibilities.

Is Lyon gonna be the right guy for them to bounce back? Only time will tell, but history shows he's a bloody good coach and i wouldnt be making that change unless you had a clear better replacement available. (Or they repeat 2016 and have another horrible year)

 

[CakeEater]

You tried to buy an instant replacement by chasing Hogan

Which only reinforces my point mate, we had to source ready made replacements from other clubs like McCarthy, Kersten, Hamling & the attempted chase for Hogan as we didnt grow a replacement for Pav when we werent doing so well.

 

[Sttew]

S

Which many people felt was on the back of injuries.

So the opposite could occur on the back of players returning?

 

[Altum Volantes]

They'll come good, but it will take time to get rolling this year I think. They'll play some patches of great footy though.

The gap between Fyfe and their next best is too big at the moment - so they need both Hills, Bennell, Crozier, Blakely and the like to step up full time ASAP to make the most of Fyfe's prime.

Mundy has peaked - Sandilands, admittedly after a long lay off, looked slow and made poor decisions on Sunday. Ballantyne will go at the seasons end - probably should have been last season for all concerned but most could see he was cooked then anyway.

Of the new guys, Hamling will be adequate to squeeze out Dawson when Alex Pearce returns, Brad Hill will continue to be a not quite as good version of his brother - and should see Danyle Pearce out the side once all hands are on deck. McCarthy will be good but I think a #2 forward at best - would benefit having another legit target up there. Kersten isn't going to be the answer there.

As far as Lyon goes - he's still one of the best coaches in the business - I think he deserves the chance to get them back up again.

 

[Dan87]

The thing that tells me Lyon is finished is the lame excuse for the loss - "I didn't prepare the team well enough" or words to that effect. He had six months to prepare for Round 1. It's the only game where a team has that luxury, and yet he got it wrong. Just as he did last year when, IIRC, he introduced a new game plan five minutes out from the start of the season.

Lyon may prove us all wrong, but I doubt it.

It was quite clear to me Lyon said that and continues to say words to that affect because he wants the heat on him and not his players, because you know, he's a strong leader that's good to his club

But whatever

 

[JackFlash]

Lyon is way out of touch with the game in 2017.

 

[Randomizor]

It was quite clear to me Lyon said that and continues to say words to that affect because he wants the heat on him and not his players, because you know, he's a strong leader that's good to his club

But whatever

Yeah this. Who of us hasn't wanted a boss that didn't constantly pass the buck?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

So the opposite could occur on the back of players returning?

That was the popular belief but not mine

 

[ess7]

Outside of David King I don't think anyone else rates Lyon's abilities to rebuild the list.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Freo are going through a rebuilding phase that has come about much sooner than they would have liked due to a combination of injuries (including with recruits), delays in finding suitable replacements for aging star players, and rule changes that have really hurt their style under Lyon.

Still its very hard to judge from one game, and I reckon they'll be looking at a 9-14 finish this year, but making the 8 is not out of the realm of possibilities.

Is Lyon gonna be the right guy for them to bounce back? Only time will tell, but history shows he's a bloody good coach and i wouldnt be making that change unless you had a clear better replacement available. (Or they repeat 2016 and have another horrible year)

Good coaches can adapt and innovate. I've never seen that under Lyon. He's had one gameplan his whole career (including at the Swans) and looks at a loss now that that plan is no longer cutting edge and others have moved past him.

 

[Scotland]

I don't buy that they're a 5-6 win side.

Carlton's team at the weekend with 4 x 200 gamers had an average age and games played of just under 25 and 85. They had 3 20 year olds, 3 19 year olds and an 18 year olds. I expect them to stink.

Melbourne fielded a younger, less experienced side than that. They had 12 <50 gamers. They will be inconsistent.

Gold Coast and Brisbane fielded even younger, less experienced and mostly ordinary teams. Both bottom 8 contenders.

Even 'no yoof' North fielded 4 debutants.

Freo's team at the weekend had 4 x 30+ 200+ gamers then a whole bunch of guys who are at or approaching their prime, then 7 <50 gamers. Guys like Weller, Blakely, Langdon etc. have all had multiple pre-seasons in the AFL system also. There's enough talent and experience in the Freo side for a 10-12 win season. If they want to fast track their re-stump/re-plumb etc. then they should be ****ing more older players off and getting the 18/19 year olds in ASAP.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Good coaches can adapt and innovate. I've never seen that under Lyon. He's had one gameplan his whole career (including at the Swans) and looks at a loss now that that plan is no longer cutting edge and others have moved past him.

Hes got a gameplan that has taken 2 different teams to 3 (+1) GF's, and has been unlucky not to win a flag. (A Hawkins poster, a bounce a foot closer to Milne, or Freos fwds kicking straight could all have led to a vert different narrative around Ross).

The thing is - last year they tried to move away from his defensive style at the start of the year (probably too much) and that led to some disastrous results.

Finding a balance is gonna be key - a team that stays tight defensively but is able to also attack and dominate when the opportunity arises - that is the goal they need to work towards and will probably continue to have growing pains on the way.

Time will tell how well they adapt under Ross. His record so far is still very good though, and without a clearly better replacement (please make some suggestions if you think they should sack him) you would have to persist for the time being.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Hes got a gameplan that has taken 2 different teams to 3 (+1) GF's, and has been unlucky not to win a flag. (A Hawkins poster, a bounce a foot closer to Milne, or Freos fwds kicking straight could all have led to a vert different narrative around Ross).

Most recent one was 4 years ago. The game has changed since then.