Future Developments of Sydney Stadiums

[kaypee]

I don't know what to make of this. Is the AFL being crafty and sneaky in trying to screw RL over? As others have mentioned above, the SCG is more than ample for the Swans, as is spotless for the Giants. There are very few occasions where you would expect an AFL match in Sydney to significantly beat a capacity SCG (i.e. >50k). A Sydney Derby in a final, and Swans final, probably a prelim, against a big Victorian team. These scenarios would eventuate once in a blue moon. Yes, there Swans did get a pair of 70k+ crowds last decade, but those days seem a long time ago now.

GWS chairman, and chair of the SCG Trust of course, Tony Shepherd, has also long advocated keeping ANZ in its oval form, so I think you are right about saving the dollars for completing the upgrades to the SCG (which I assume will bump capacity to 50k+).

With Channel 9 and Foxtel actively pushing for more games in smaller stadiums, not to mention NRL crowds dropping DESPITE more games being played in large stadia, how on earth is an upgrade to ANZ justified?

From a policy point of view the NSW govt would consider this: AFL crowds over the past 30 years have effectively quadrupled, and the code invests in the community, even when the community is hostile. THere is no reason to think AFL won't grow still. rugby on the other hand simply says crowds will come if you build us a flash stadium. This is nonsense. I wouldn't invest my money in that, and nor should the NSW gubbermint

 

[dantm]

Exactly, the vast majority of content in Sydney already provides for 'rectangular' sport.

Why rectangular sports continue to use stadia far in excess of their reqiurements is beyond me.
When the SFS stadium was built everybody praised the SFS as the ideal rectangular stadium
yet it has been hardly used and nowhere near to it's capacity.



Swans fans shunned ANZ stadium because the stadium itself is very poor.
Despite this the Swans hold the attendance record for H&A games.
They can easily upgrade ANZ without losing the oval surface.
For $1.6 billion I would definitely demolish and start again.
I don't see the need to spend $1.6 billion on a stadium that held only two games with crowd over 45,000 in 2017.

ANZ Stadium generally averages around 12 events over 45,000 each year.
In 2017, 5 x 80,000+ games + 2 x 100,000 concerts.

 

[Rabman]

From a policy point of view the NSW govt would consider this: AFL crowds over the past 30 years have effectively quadrupled, and the code invests in the community, even when the community is hostile. THere is no reason to think AFL won't grow still. rugby on the other hand simply says crowds will come if you build us a flash stadium. This is nonsense. I wouldn't invest my money in that, and nor should the NSW gubbermint

NSW mafia will do there best to convince them.

 

[Rabman]

Funny AAMI stadium lasted 40 years with 1 minor upgrade, after just 17 years there wanting ANZ to be demolished.

 

[99 Problems]

The country needs a showpiece rectangular stadium so I have no issue with an ANZ redevelopment but it should absolutely not be done to accommodate oval sports. Do it as low cost as possible with the aim to lower capacity and make it a better view for the fans. The sfs should only be touched if the aim is to reduce capacity to make it suitable for its regular tenants who don’t require anywhere near that capacity.

Swans, giants and cricket currently have more than adequate stadiums that look suitable well into the future.

 

[jatz14]

The biggest plus to the AFL proposal in my view, is the complete meltdown on 442 it caused.

 

[Colonial]

The country needs a showpiece rectangular stadium so I have no issue with an ANZ redevelopment but it should absolutely not be done to accommodate oval sports. Do it as low cost as possible with the aim to lower capacity and make it a better view for the fans. The sfs should only be touched if the aim is to reduce capacity to make it suitable for its regular tenants who don’t require anywhere near that capacity.

Swans, giants and cricket currently have more than adequate stadiums that look suitable well into the future.

Nope

SCG has to have its upgrades finished as does Spotless.

If those 2 unfinished stadiums are adequate as of now then so are the 10 rectangle stadiums for those codes.

Especially when you take in the cost.
1.6 bill to upgrade/rebuild the rectangle grounds.
100 mil or so to upgrade the 2 oval grounds.

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[RedV3x]

ANZ Stadium generally averages around 12 events over 45,000 each year.
In 2017, 5 x 80,000+ games + 2 x 100,000 concerts.

Can you provide a link to that because Austadiums says only 2 crowds >45,000 for 2017.

 

[RedV3x]

For $40mil we can update Spotless to 35k.

That's not a lot of money, and preferable to AFL generally
but still doesn't make a lot of sense when you have a stadium with 40,000 good viewing seats already built.
(Unless, that was the plan all along to cut AFL from ANZ, which is a good conspiracy when you consider
they paid some NRL clubs to play at ANZ)

 

[RedV3x]

From a policy point of view the NSW govt would consider this: AFL crowds over the past 30 years have effectively quadrupled, and the code invests in the community, even when the community is hostile. THere is no reason to think AFL won't grow still. rugby on the other hand simply says crowds will come if you build us a flash stadium. This is nonsense. I wouldn't invest my money in that, and nor should the NSW gubbermint

Totally agree, and on top of that is the cost of $1.6 billion which is a
ridiculous amount of money to be spent on a stadium that hosts crowds <10,000.
The new benchmark in stadiums is the Perth stadium and the stadium itself cost about $900 million.
Why not just replicate that stadium ?

 

[Colonial]

That's not a lot of money, and preferable to AFL generally
but still doesn't make a lot of sense when you have a stadium with 40,000 good viewing seats already built.
(Unless, that was the plan all along to cut AFL from ANZ, which is a good conspiracy when you consider
they paid some NRL clubs to play at ANZ)

ANZ is a garbage stadium both viewing and surface for the oval sports.

It was generally thought after the olympics that it would be converted to rectangle. Thats what id heard anyway. Can only think of the investment AFL gave the stadium kept it this way.

Having 2 stadiums for the 2 most attended sports at 50k and 35k for a fraction of the upgrade costs of the rectangle sports rebuilds makes a lot of sense.

Both SCG and Spotless get used year round as well.

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[Bokonon_]

Totally agree, and on top of that is the cost of $1.6 billion which is a
ridiculous amount of money to be spent on a stadium that hosts crowds <10,000.
The new benchmark in stadiums is the Perth stadium and the stadium itself cost about $900 million.
Why not just replicate that stadium ?

Because we're not Perth and never will be. Both new clubs have they're own home ground and no-one wants that to change, and it wont.
ANZ is a big stadium option that wont be used very much. If you were at ANZ For the 2016 QF you would probably appreciatewhat that spectacle does for Sydney AFL. It's far from perfect but can be retained as an option fairly easily and should be.
No other state has the possibility and luxury of an 80k stadium on standby. This reduces the down side of two club stadiums which will always have limited capacity.
Absolutely Spotless should be upgraded long term. Not sure about the SCG and it's largely a matter for Swans fans and the SCG trust. I
I would be thinking move it to an accessible location, and then trying to upgrade the facilities to within a Bulls roar of Spotless.

 

[RedV3x]

Because we're not Perth and never will be. Both new clubs have they're own home ground and no-one wants that to change, and it wont.

I was suggesting that ANZ could be replaced by a replica of the Perth stadium, the new benchmark in world stadiums.
It's so much cheaper, better and suitable for all sports.
Agreed, SCG is another story.

 

[Bokonon_]

I was suggesting that ANZ could be replaced by a replica of the Perth stadium, the new benchmark in world stadiums.
It's so much cheaper, better and suitable for all sports.
Agreed, SCG is another story.

Spotless is actually perfect for us. I don't think ANZ will ever be led by AFl's needs. It's just an option where a big stadium is needed. As GG has said, and a lot of Swans supporters, in many ways it sucks. If the AFL see a use only if we play the Suns in a final, for now at least, they wont be putting their hand up to fund it.
If Perth Stadium is suitable as a square ground,and I dont think it's configurable then maybe.
Remember ANZ was the 2000 Olympic stadium, it's stunning in many ways. In most it's what happens when engineers design a stadium with no budget constraints.

The front seats don't have sufficient elevation for example. It 's ok up high but it's weird getting a lift to your seats and then walking through a bar/shop concourse on your level through a door outside to your seats. Each aisle is separated as well which limits atmosphere.

 

[RedV3x]

ANZ is a garbage stadium both viewing and surface for the oval sports.

ANZ is a poor stadium but it has about 40,000 good viewing seats.
I don't know why the movable section isn't permanently left forward and just 2m in height moved.
The stadium itself needs some upgrading to be finished but it should be a question of demolish or minor upgrade not major upgrade.

It was generally thought after the olympics that it would be converted to rectangle.

I never heard of that. I never heard any thoughts.
Why would you have a movable section then ? You'd have the current movable section permanently out with the extra seating added later.

 

[Colonial]

ANZ is a poor stadium but it has about 40,000 good viewing seats.
I don't know why the movable section isn't permanently left forward and just 2m in height moved.
The stadium itself needs some upgrading to be finished but it should be a question of demolish or minor upgrade not major upgrade.




I never heard of that. I never heard any thoughts.
Why would you have a movable section then ? You'd have the current movable section permanently out with the extra seating added later.

40k still looks horrid and the surface is terrible.

Cant say why i thought that. It was 18 years ago.

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[dantm]

I was suggesting that ANZ could be replaced by a replica of the Perth stadium, the new benchmark in world stadiums.
It's so much cheaper, better and suitable for all sports.
Agreed, SCG is another story.

"The benchmark in world stadiums"
ROFL

Go look at Mercedes Benz Stadium, Atlanta or US Bank Stadium,Minneapolis for a true benchmark in modern stadium design and technology.

Secondly,there would be riots in Sydney if they replicated Perth Stadium.
You obviously are not following the debate closely enough in Sydney to understand that its about the requirements of the codes of Rugby League,Rugby Union and Soccer.
Another large oval,a million miles away from the action.Bring your binoculars!

Perth Stadium would be the last design required in Sydney.

 

[Kwality]

"The benchmark in world stadiums"
ROFL

Go look at Mercedes Benz Stadium, Atlanta or US Bank Stadium,Minneapolis for a true benchmark in modern stadium design and technology.

Secondly,there would be riots in Sydney if they replicated Perth Stadium.
You obviously are not following the debate closely enough in Sydney to understand that its about the requirements of the codes of Rugby League,Rugby Union and Soccer.
Another large oval,a million miles away from the action.Bring your binoculars!

Perth Stadium would be the last design required in Sydney.

Plenty of AFL fans have never watched sport on a rectangular ground.

 

[RedV3x]

Spotless is actually perfect for us. I don't think ANZ will ever be led by AFl's needs. It's just an option where a big stadium is needed.

Exactly ANZ is the big stadium option. It also has 40,000 good viewing seats plus more for the big events.
It makes economic sense to go with ANZ not both or do you think spotless will be forever sufficient.

If Perth Stadium is suitable as a square ground,and I dont think it's configurable then maybe.

The Perth stadium is going to hold all sports just like the MCG. The NRL play at the SCG. Rectangular shape argument is totally selective.

Remember ANZ was the 2000 Olympic stadium, it's stunning in many ways. In most it's what happens when engineers design a stadium with no budget constraints.

Nothing could be further from the truth. ANZ was billed as innovative design. But...
Even NRL fans realize a single bank design (as against tiered) puts half the crowd at a great distance from the action.
Only one visit to ANZ and you realize the stadium needs to be enclose to prevent being blasted away by the wind.
ANZ is a really cheap build with no expense spent.

The front seats don't have sufficient elevation for example.

That's because they're set in stupid oval position. Simply put the seats forward in rectangular format and remove front seats.

 

[RedV3x]

40k still looks horrid and the surface is terrible.

40K looks horrid w.r.t. what exactly ?

If the ANZ surface is terrible then fix it. Got nothing to do with the stadium.

 

[Colonial]

40K looks horrid w.r.t. what exactly ?

If the ANZ surface is terrible then fix it. Got nothing to do with the stadium.

Still looks empty and the views are not good in anyway shape or form.

Got everything to do with the stadium. Where the grass is under the moveable sections you have bolts and the like.

It should be a rectangle permanantly. Leave SCG and Spotless to the oval codes.

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[RedV3x]

"The benchmark in world stadiums"

Go look at Perth stadium for a true benchmark in modern stadium design and technology.

Secondly,there would be riots in Sydney if they replicated Perth Stadium.

You obviously are not following the debate closely enough in Perth to understand that the codes of Rugby League,Rugby Union and Soccer are all clammering to play at Perth stadium.

Another large oval,a million miles away from the action.

You are obviously confused with ANZ stadium not Perth Stadium were every seat is guaranteed good viewing.
Perth stadium is very similar to Docklands stadium but with luxurious seating, better facilities and the highest tech specs a.t.m.

 

[RedV3x]

Still looks empty and the views are not good in anyway shape or form.

Then WTF does Sydney need a big stadium for ?

It should be a rectangle permanantly. Leave SCG and Spotless to the oval codes.

That's the type of thinking that has Sydney in the sporting stadium mess it is now.

 

[Bokonon_]

Exactly ANZ is the big stadium option. It also has 40,000 good viewing seats plus more for the big events.
It makes economic sense to go with ANZ not both or do you think spotless will be forever sufficient.



The Perth stadium is going to hold all sports just like the MCG. The NRL play at the SCG. Rectangular shape argument is totally selective.



Nothing could be further from the truth. ANZ was billed as innovative design. But...
Even NRL fans realize a single bank design (as against tiered) puts half the crowd at a great distance from the action.
Only one visit to ANZ and you realize the stadium needs to be enclose to prevent being blasted away by the wind.
ANZ is a really cheap build with no expense spent.



That's because they're set in stupid oval position. Simply put the seats forward in rectangular format and remove front seats.

ANZ has 80k capacity. That's the relevant point. If you think it was a cheap build I'm out

 

[Colonial]

Then WTF does Sydney need a big stadium for ?

80k? Rectangle
World cup qualifiers, Grand Finals, Sydney Derby, the Odd big rugby game.

Hense why the 50k SCG and 35k Spotless are perfect for AFL and Cricket.

That's the type of thinking that has Sydney in the sporting stadium mess it is now.

No. Our mess is because we have a dozen suburban stadiums that were until recently all getting grants to be upgraded. It was garbage.
Also it was because we had a major stadium that didnt know what it was let alone the huge design flaw of how the seating was arranged.

Your nonsense that all stadiums should look to Perths new one is absolute bs.

Rectangle codes will not want to play major games at an oval.
You think the West Coast Pirates (or whatever they are called) will want to play at Perth Stadium or NIB?


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