Rumour Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

[dogwatch]

What is there to learn from the governance, list and coaching practices of hawthorn? Anything for us?

Heaps. You could add Geelong. Hawthorn is still a work in progress but you'd love to be a Hawks supporter right now enjoying the ride. Geelong are a proven case over nearly two decades.

These are all good questions you're asking LP but to give my full answer I'd need a bit of time to put it together. And I'm just an ordinary punter so I have no special inside knowledge. I only see what you see. Maybe less, because most of what I see is on TV.

Maybe in a few weeks when the dust has settled ...

 

[Munnez]

Be careful of over reactions to finals losses.

The glaring example of Adelaide’s misguided reaction to its GF loss to Richmond which subsequently ripped the club apart.

We lost a final, to a team that played very well on a night when we didn’t put our best foot forward.
But if you take the emotion out of it.
We played the game on their home ground, in conditions that suited their style of play more than ours, and also they got favourable treatment from the umpires which assisted them in combating our strengths.

It was not a loss like Port’s on Thursday where the players stopped trying after they were massively outclassed.

It’s simply time to reassess and reload for next year.

Hawthorn were also our worst match up in terms of game style, so over reacting to losing to them (again) would really be foolish and self destructive.

A few players were indeed found wanting under the spotlight, so it’s also time to assess whether they need to be developed more or might need to be replaced. A few tweaks, not a tantrum is the required reaction.

We aren’t far away, the future is still bright.

If frustrated fans and the club want to do something helpful then they should start shouting to the roof tops about the unjust biased application of the rules in last night’s game. Behind the scenes at least if not in public.

People should be posing videos of Hawthorn players constantly holding and illegally interfering with Bulldog players, and getting away with it.

Then contrast these instances with Bulldog players getting penalised for something similar.

We need to be more resilient sure but we must also do as much as we can to stop the ridiculous umpiring treatment which derailed us in multiple games this year, from occurring again in future. No club can withstand such poor treatment in such an even competition, and still expect to win.

That was doing my head in last was the uneven application of the rules. Hawks were allowed a lot of latitude and it emboldened them further.
And if we did anything remotely similar #free-kick Hawks

 

[hutchy31]

Yes they should.

So... explain to me how Beveridge is responsible for what unfolded when across the board and even our more skilled players like Ed Richards were making fundamental skill errors whenever pressure was applied to or when they are being tagged out of the game. As The Bont was for much off the game.

These issues aren't apparent when we are running on top of the ground and dominating sides that allow us to.

Im guessing that the messaging was much the same in both cases.



Sure, and he got the team up and about and ready enough for them to have a relatively comfortable lead at qtr time.



C'mon. It's fine to have had your fill of Beveridge. But, It's hard to take seriously anybody who thinks the finals record of a premiership winning coach is in anyway analogous with a guy who has never gone close to reaching one let alone two Grand Finals. But sure build your argument out of straw if you wish.

Last night was on the playing groups (especially the midfield) inability to cope with, push back against or apply sustained pressure when it counts. And given last night was an elimination final it would be pretty asinine to suggest that pressure wouldn't have been a big factor in any pre-game messaging and the core focus of the players as the huddled just prior to the first bounce of the game. Beveridge can only do so much when his charges are in the middle of completely bottling it against a side that they are structurally not well matched against.

People love to fall back on and moan after a loss about Beveridge not having a magical Plan-B. And then they moan about why The Bont was sitting in the f50 for extended periods. Or Why Naughton spent a few minutes in the ruck. Without ever considering the wider context as to why these things were happening. They do this because it isn't convenient to their narrative that the blame for a loss always begins and ends with the coach. And that the flaws inherent in this side will just be wiped away with a shiny new one.

I’m a fairly rusted-on member of the “Bevo should go” brigade, but I agree with a decent chunk of this. I was incredibly disappointed with the senior players, from the captain all the way down. Not just in performance, but attitude and body language and the ephemeral things you can just see/feel at the ground.

Maybe the hawks are too young, too quick, too confident and will rip the finals apart. My issue with last night is that I don’t think they even got out of second gear, they got the game on their terms early in the second quarter and then coasted home. We were barely an issue for them. And that’s been something we’ve seen in big finals on 3-4 occasions under Bevo in the past 5-6 years.

Maybe we don’t know how good we have it, and replacing him would mean we end up in a death spiral like North or Saints in recent years. But watching kicks continuously find Sicily or Scrimshaw, and Newcombe running around like he was in a training drill, cannot just be on the players. Surely a coach needs to ensure we don’t get beaten by the same players again and again.

 

[lachy]

I've explained my position. You may not agree but that's just too bad.

And don't create straw man arguments.

Hardly straw man arguments, and I do not always agree with Norm

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TMoney22]

Players with go, campaigner, go to war with, what ever you want to call it...

2016: Morris, Smith, Picken, Stringer, Bont, Dunkley, Wood, Boyd, Wallis, Dahlhaus, Libba, Cordy, Stevens, Minson, Stevens, Redpath
2024: Bont, Libba, VDM, West, Garcia.

 

[lachy]

Players with go, campaigner, go to war with, what ever you want to call it...

2016: Morris, Smith, Picken, Stringer, Bont, Dunkley, Wood, Boyd, Wallis, Dahlhaus, Libba, Cordy, Stevens, Minson, Stevens, Redpath
2024: Bont, Libba, VDM, West, Garcia.

Think you are selling Freijah, Darcy, Lobb, amd probably 1 or 2 others short. Inexperience this year, next year will ruffle feathers

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TMoney22]

Think you are selling Freijah, Darcy, Lobb, amd probably 1 or 2 others short. Inexperience this year, next year will ruffle feathers

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I see it with them for sure. As you say, not right now but definately in the near future. Still not enough though

 

[hutchy31]

Players with go, campaigner, go to war with, what ever you want to call it...

2016: Morris, Smith, Picken, Stringer, Bont, Dunkley, Wood, Boyd, Wallis, Dahlhaus, Libba, Cordy, Stevens, Minson, Stevens, Redpath
2024: Bont, Libba, VDM, West, Garcia.

Honestly, last night the captain and Libba didn’t have it either. It was gruesome.

 

[lachy]

I see it with them for sure. As you say, not right now but definately in the near future. Still not enough though

Enough to build on.

Resign Bailey Smith, develop those on the list properly, draft quick mids and we are already improving dramatically with internal development

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dogs Rule]

Staggering the sort of player we're crying out for is supposedly one and a half feet out the door. Just increase the offer or whatever, sort it out and get it done.

 

[hutchy31]

Staggering the sort of player we're crying out for is supposedly one and a half feet out the door. Just increase the offer or whatever, sort it out and get it done.

Players of the calibre of Dunkley and Smith wouldn’t be agitating to get out of most other clubs. They should be key players in our side and not playing for competitors.

I hate how this makes the club look, but more importantly it just ushers in another period of irrelevance.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Players of the calibre of Dunkley and Smith wouldn’t be agitating to get out of most other clubs. They should be key players in our side and not playing for competitors.

I hate how this makes the club look, but more importantly it just ushers in another period of irrelevance.

Not as if he's going to North or Richmond, it's Geelong, a team likely to make another Grand Final and maybe another flag FFS.

 

[Proffessor]

Umpires had nothing to do with who won last night.

Sure we got some dodgy decisions (who doesn't?) but to focus on that is to do a Sydney and wilfully ignore the fact that we were comprehensively outplayed on the big stage.

We would do ourselves no favours mounting a campaign to the media and the AFL over a handful of dubious decisions.

And we need to stop saying "oh, it's only one bad game". I keep hearing that. Every September and after every inexplicable implosion in an important game. The sooner we are honest with ourselves the sooner we can become the club that wins finals.

It has worked pretty well for Sydney.

And nobody is suggesting we ignore our own failings. It’s possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Be careful of over reactions to finals losses.

The glaring example of Adelaide’s misguided reaction to its GF loss to Richmond which subsequently ripped the club apart.

We lost a final, to a team that played very well on a night when we didn’t put our best foot forward.
But if you take the emotion out of it.
We played the game on their home ground, in conditions that suited their style of play more than ours, and also they got favourable treatment from the umpires which assisted them in combating our strengths.

It was not a loss like Port’s on Thursday where the players stopped trying after they were massively outclassed.

It’s simply time to reassess and reload for next year.

Hawthorn were also our worst match up in terms of game style, so over reacting to losing to them (again) would really be foolish and self destructive.

A few players were indeed found wanting under the spotlight, so it’s also time to assess whether they need to be developed more or might need to be replaced. A few tweaks, not a tantrum is the required reaction.

We aren’t far away, the future is still bright.

If frustrated fans and the club want to do something helpful then they should start shouting to the roof tops about the unjust biased application of the rules in last night’s game. Behind the scenes at least if not in public.

People should be posing videos of Hawthorn players constantly holding and illegally interfering with Bulldog players, and getting away with it.

Then contrast these instances with Bulldog players getting penalised for something similar.

We need to be more resilient sure but we must also do as much as we can to stop the ridiculous umpiring treatment which derailed us in multiple games this year, from occurring again in future. No club can withstand such poor treatment in such an even competition, and still expect to win.

Yeah, because our response to a Grand Final loss was so much better.

Second time in three years I’ve attended a final where I knew we were no chance of winning at half time. They have become mental nutcases.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I heard someone on radio yesterday say the umpiring on Friday night was excellent.

I almost drove off the road. It was appalling (but not why we lost).

 

[Dogs Rule]

What is there to learn from the governance, list and coaching practices of hawthorn? Anything for us?

Ruthlessness. Tough calls.

 

[Mutt]

Hardly straw man arguments, and I do not always agree with Norm

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

In his rebuttal, he repeated arguments that others had made—they were not my arguments:

"People love to fall back on and moan after a loss about Beveridge not having a magical Plan-B. And then they moan about why The Bont was sitting in the f50 for extended periods. Or Why Naughton spent a few minutes in the ruck. Without ever considering the wider context as to why these things were happening. They do this because it isn't convenient to their narrative that the blame for a loss always begins and ends with the coach. And that the flaws inherent in this side will just be wiped away with a shiny new one."

 

[TiAn_]

Anyone absolving the coach or the players of blame is equally off the mark. They were both poor. That’s probably the third or fourth final we’ve lost like that under Bev across 5-6 years, with only maybe half a dozen of the same players across all of those games. And it hasn’t just been those same players letting us down every time. When the players change but an issue with inconsistent team wide performance persists the coach is as much a problem as the players are.

 

[Hobdog]

Looks like Murph is finishing up his three year stint at Fremantle. Will have acquired some good skills and knowledge in a different environment.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Bulldogger]

It’s simply time to reassess and reload for next year.

We aren’t far away, the future is still bright.

You do realize this is now the fourth time in 6 years we've seen this exact episode play out?

2019: up and down year, finish in 5th-8th position, beaten immediately by GWS in the elimination final.
2020: up and down year, finish in 5th-8th position, beaten immediately by St Kilda in the elimination final.
2022: up and down year, finish in 5th-8th position, beaten immediately by Fremantle in the elimination final.
2024: up and down year, finish in 5th-8th position, beaten immediately by Hawthorn in the elimination final.

How many more times will we "not be far away"?
How many times do we have to keep telling ourselves "the future is still bright"? What good is having a bright future if we never reach it?

 

[Chalky White]

Anyone absolving the coach or the players of blame is equally off the mark. They were both poor. That’s probably the third or fourth final we’ve lost like that under Bev across 5-6 years, with only maybe half a dozen of the same players across all of those games. And it hasn’t just been those same players letting us down every time. When the players change but an issue with inconsistent team wide performance persists the coach is as much a problem as the players are.

Agree 100%. Selections, poor match planning and adjustment, having the best player in the comp sitting on the bench or camped at CHF is all on the coach. The non respect to Sicily and Newcombe is on him alse.
The players personal insipid efforts and skill failures is on them.
The game was effectively lost or at least not given a chance to be on our terms by the coach. 100%.
However the players in general were pi55p00r in all facets of execution also.
Kane cornes has done an overview of the finals on AFL.com and hits nail right on the head when it comes to us.

 

[Al dente]

Anyone absolving the coach or the players of blame is equally off the mark. They were both poor. That’s probably the third or fourth final we’ve lost like that under Bev across 5-6 years, with only maybe half a dozen of the same players across all of those games. And it hasn’t just been those same players letting us down every time. When the players change but an issue with inconsistent team wide performance persists the coach is as much a problem as the players are.

its why this team was never winning 4 finals in a row. i think 3 maybe 4 games is the most they've bought full commitment to since 2021. GWS bring it nearly every week, we did in 15/16.

 

[Dog 36]

This is a long shot but I would go poach Frank Ponnissi from Melbourne Storm and this is not the first time I have mentioned this.

A very very good General Manager and I know he is regarded as one of the best if not best operators in the game

Do not fear he comes from another code job description would be similar think dealing with and having robust discussions with Bellamy, players, training staff etc etc

Storm is one of the best run clubs in terms of football department both on and off the field and he is the the glue that keeps it together

 

[fred cook]

We just don't seem to have the ability to run teams down. We start well the opposition might get a bit of a run on but in general we usually win those games.

 

[Anja_Nees]

One thing I’d love to know is what we’re doing in our weeks off before finals and whether it’s different to other clubs.

The bye has only ever worked for us once - there wasn’t one until before the GF in 2021 and we know how that worked out.

We very often come out flat.