Rumour Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

[BarryMorgan]

Bailey Smith gone

SHOCK.

 

[Dogs Rule]

We will be under the most pressure of any club next season and rightfully so.

Good. Turn it right up.

Fresh start is needed and the cult of personality has to end. We've been a failure since 2016 and the 2021 season end f***** us mentally from which we haven't recovered.

Six months to sort it out and get our s*** together.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

We will be under the most pressure of any club next season and rightfully so.

we play the underdog card all too often...

it doesn't work all the time and its not whats needed to win

 

[X_box_X]

Good. Turn it right up.

Fresh start is needed and the cult of personality has to end. We've been a failure since 2016 and the 2021 season end f***** us mentally from which we haven't recovered.

Six months to sort it out and get our s*** together.

Overreaction.

It's amazing some of the stuff you read after a loss. It's NEVER as bad as it seems.

If 2021 mentally effed us, we'd not have won double digit games in the past three years combined. That's a fact. It's hard enough winning matches in a professional environment let alone doing it when you're mentally effed.

Say we're not mentally strong enough, that's fine. But that's on some of the players, not the club.

It's good going to have a positive win/loss record 70% of the time.

Tinkering needed, sure, but posts like this make it seem as though we may as well fill the Whitten Oval with explosives and start from scratch.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Overreaction.

It's amazing some of the stuff you read after a loss. It's NEVER as bad as it seems.

If 2021 mentally effed us, we'd not have won double digit games in the past three years combined. That's a tucked.

Say we're not mentally strong enough, that's fine. But that's on some of the players, not the club.

It's good going to have a positive win/loss record 70% of the time.

Tinkering needed, sure, but posts like this make it seem as though we may as well fill the Whitten Oval with explosives and start from scratch.

Post 2021 we are in no man's land, 8th, 9th, 7th. Either make the leap or blow it up, especially with Tassie on the horizon.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Overreaction.

It's amazing some of the stuff you read after a loss. It's NEVER as bad as it seems.

If 2021 mentally effed us, we'd not have won double digit games in the past three years combined. That's a fact. It's hard enough winning matches in a professional environment let alone doing it when you're mentally effed.

Say we're not mentally strong enough, that's fine. But that's on some of the players, not the club.

It's good going to have a positive win/loss record 70% of the time.

Tinkering needed, sure, but posts like this make it seem as though we may as well fill the Whitten Oval with explosives and start from scratch.

OK, we're not mentally strong enough and yes you're right, it's on the players.

So now we identify those players and weed them out. Nobody wants to be stuck in this middle of the road nowhere rut that we're stuck in.

 

[X_box_X]

Post 2021 we are in no man's land, 8th, 9th, 7th. Either make the leap or blow it up, especially with Tassie on the horizon.

Tinkering required.

I guess it's hard to make a proper assessment when you're not impartial but believe me there are more clubs in a worse position than us.

We're slightly better than average and while from a KPI perspective that's not good enough, it's obvious to me that most clubs who fail to win the premiership only need to do some slight tinkering and maybe have a bit more luck to win the flag. We're certainly in that group.

 

[perro_loco]

Bailey Smith gone

This is not a surprise. The important question is why? We have lost two excellent midfielders in Dunkley and BSmith. Why is the question, WHY?

 

[perro_loco]

OK, we're not mentally strong enough and yes you're right, it's on the players.

So now we identify those players and weed them out. Nobody wants to be stuck in this middle of the road nowhere rut that we're stuck in.

McNeil, VDM, Daniel, Duryea, Harmes, Baker, Bedendo, AScott, JJ, Keith, Gardner. Oh and Tim English. You cannot win a Premiership with that soft c ock of a ruck.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

IMO it’s not about questioning Bev’s relationships with the players. Or most of them.

Getting the players to respect and want to play for you is part of the equation. No doubt about that. And the days of the hard arse psycho coach are over.

But what I question is how we seem to be assessing most of his tenure. Are these the results we’re okay with? I’ve seen a couple of comments around here associating aspirations of success with anything the view that only a premiership is a success. Which I don’t think is the case for anyone - we all know that only one team wins it each year and it doesn’t mean the season is a “failure” for seventeen clubs.

But the serious clubs - which I don’t think we are - expect success (Hawks, Cats, Swans) without acting irrationally to achieve it (Essendon).

Sam Mitchell stated a flag was the expectation - despite their inexperience. They played like it. Our guys played like it was a 9-5 they couldnt wait to clock out of with full knowledge they wouldn’t be taken to task on what happened. See 2021 GF.

Maybe Bevo would be better suited to some kind of player welfare role. I don’t think tactically he ever recovered from a few rule changes the afl put upon him. Most of what we were doing in the back half of the system was game planning around Tim being wet lettuce in the ruck and winning back possession, which was always playing with fire.

2-5 elimination final record with one flag 8 years ago shouldn’t be enough to guarantee Bevo a job for life. It can get very cult of personality with how we treat him because he brought us our first premiership in decades.

Choking a 40 point lead, missing the 8 then getting smacked by the hawks in the way we did - Meek smashing English, Sicily and Newcombe unaccounted etc - it’s all pretty evident we’ve hit our ceiling with the coaching. The Hawks get us the same way almost every time. Getting beat by what you’re familiar with, with 2 weeks preparation is really a bad reflection. Not saying that it wasn’t prepared for (obviously) - but what preparations were made, were ****ing shit.

I don’t expect us to do much going into next season, it isn’t in the clubs nature. What we’ve seen the last few years is what we’re okay with. Which sucks because we support the club and pay for memberships under the assumption we’re going to watch a team that at least plays with actual competitive ambition - not making up the numbers and patting themselves on the back for merely turning up, or selling thousands of fake memberships.

I think the players would have wanted to win as much as the supporters, none of them treat this as a 9-5 job.

We are yet to see how far Hawthorn go, if they make the GF or win the premiership, it means nothing was going to stop them. Hawthorn have been building a list for nearly a decade, pulling in higher rated youngsters, while we have been making finals or just missing out.

Port go to water in finals, Bevo beat them with Schache playing in defence in 2021 ffs.

We lost the ruck, and then the famed Bulldog strip, thanks to the analyse from King and co, but it showed what we all know, that our midfield is ageing and we need an injection of skill and speed in there against the rising young teams.

We also played a number of young kids in their first final, which will give them great experience, Gags, Freij, JOD, Darcy, these kids are our future. Next year, Sanders and hopefully Buss will cement spots. Yes Jamarra was poor, but the midfield is where we lost the game.

 

[yebach]

We lost because our coach is tactically inept.

We lost because he doesn't put any value in taking away the opposition's strengths.

We lost because he loves to play selection bingo.

We lost because he cannot make any match day moves that can swing the game our way.

Our players would know this, at the very least subconsciously.

And once we're behind, they would have no belief that he could engineer a win. Hence the perceived lack of fight.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

We lost because our coach is tactically inept.

We lost because he doesn't put any value in taking away the opposition's strengths.

We lost because he loves to play selection bingo.

We lost because he cannot make any match day moves that can swing the game our way.

Our players would know this, at the very least subconsciously.

And once we're behind, they would have no belief that he could engineer a win. Hence the perceived lack of fight.

another factor that's ignored - finals intensity and tackling abilities. how many times do the opp run rings around 2/3 of our players. broken tackles. reactive pressure.

been poor since 2016 gf

 

[Dogs54]

I think the players would have wanted to win as much as the supporters, none of them treat this as a 9-5 job.

We are yet to see how far Hawthorn go, if they make the GF or win the premiership, it means nothing was going to stop them. Hawthorn have been building a list for nearly a decade, pulling in higher rated youngsters, while we have been making finals or just missing out.

Port go to water in finals, Bevo beat them with Schache playing in defence in 2021 ffs.

We lost the ruck, and then the famed Bulldog strip, thanks to the analyse from King and co, but it showed what we all know, that our midfield is ageing and we need an injection of skill and speed in there against the rising young teams.

We also played a number of young kids in their first final, which will give them great experience, Gags, Freij, JOD, Darcy, these kids are our future. Next year, Sanders and hopefully Buss will cement spots. Yes Jamarra was poor, but the midfield is where we lost the game.

Hawthorn's rebuild started when they decided to move on Clarkson and appointed Mitchell as head coach in 2021. Clarkson won three premierships but the club realized it was time to part ways. Sometimes you need to sit down and reflect on the issues and work through the alternatives to resolve and once you've made an informed decision you move on and don't look back. Great call by Hawthorn and they will be the standard that clubs will benchmark against.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Hawthorn's rebuild started when they decided to move on Clarkson and appointed Mitchell as head coach in 2021. Clarkson won three premierships but the club realized it was time to part ways. Sometimes you need to sit down and reflect on the issues and work through the alternatives to resolve and once you've made an informed decision you move on and don't look back. Great call by Hawthorn and they will be the standard that clubs will benchmark against.

Hawthorn until Friday had not won a final since 2015. They hadn’t made finals since Mitchell took over, but had focused on accumulating draft picks.

 

[Dogs54]

Hawthorn until Friday had not won a final since 2015. They hadn’t made finals since Mitchell took over, but had focused on accumulating draft picks.

Mitchell took over in 2021 and he recruited coaches and targeted players such as Amon, Ginnivan, Chol, Meek, Ambrosio, drafted players to suit their game style such as Weddle, Watson, Deer and then coached the existing players to higher levels such as Frost, Newcombe, Moore, Impey.

He has shown what can be achieved under his guidance and the support of a knowledgeable Board.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Hawthorn's rebuild started when they decided to move on Clarkson and appointed Mitchell as head coach in 2021. Clarkson won three premierships but the club realized it was time to part ways. Sometimes you need to sit down and reflect on the issues and work through the alternatives to resolve and once you've made an informed decision you move on and don't look back. Great call by Hawthorn and they will be the standard that clubs will benchmark against.

It was made easier though by the fact they had traded a raft of high picks to bring in players like O’Meara, Mitchell etc hoping to stay up but then plunged for three years.

I think if Clarkson had gone for youth at the end of 2016 instead of mortgaging the future, and they’d been on the up by 2021, he would have been allowed to continue.

 

[Dogs54]

It was made easier though by the fact they had traded a raft of high picks to bring in players like O’Meara, Mitchell etc hoping to stay up but then plunged for three years.

I think if Clarkson had gone for youth at the end of 2016 instead of mortgaging the future, and they’d been on the up by 2021, he would have been allowed to continue.

Clarkson went with the model he thought would produce the best results, he was wrong and set the club back many years and he paid the price. However the point I'm making is Hawthorn moved on a three time premiership coach because they could not see a sustainable future in his strategies and his stubborn reluctance for change.

Mitchell has done an outstanding job and has over 90% of his players performing at or over their potential and has one of the youngest lists in the AFL.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Clarkson went with the model he thought would produce the best results, he was wrong and set the club back many years and he paid the price. However the point I'm making is Hawthorn moved on a three time premiership coach because they could not see a sustainable future in his strategies and his stubborn reluctance for change.

Mitchell has done an outstanding job and has over 90% of his players performing at or over their potential and has one of the youngest lists in the AFL.

No they sacked him because they were in no man’s land and were years into a rebuild and years off finals.

If they were playing finals I doubt they would have moved him on.

 

[Dogs54]

No they sacked him because they were in no man’s land and were years into a rebuild and years off finals.

If they were playing finals I doubt they would have moved him on.

Why were they in no mans land?

 

[Anja_Nees]

Why were they in no mans land?

Because they had a raft of retirements and traded their early picks away.

 

[perro_loco]

Hawthorn's rebuild started when they decided to move on Clarkson and appointed Mitchell as head coach in 2021. Clarkson won three premierships but the club realized it was time to part ways. Sometimes you need to sit down and reflect on the issues and work through the alternatives to resolve and once you've made an informed decision you move on and don't look back. Great call by Hawthorn and they will be the standard that clubs will benchmark against.

This is my argument. Some coaches stay far too long who are mediocre. The only exception is the Geelong coach who makes finals each year and wins grand finals.

 

[bobs head soup]

This is my argument. Some coaches stay far too long who are mediocre. The only exception is the Geelong coach who makes finals each year and wins grand finals.

Both teams with a home Prelim this year have coaches in their 14th season.

Longevity in itself shouldn't be a negative. A coach in his 2nd year may have been there too long, a 20th year coach may be a good fit.

 

[perro_loco]

Both teams with a home Prelim this year have coaches in their 14th season.
Longevity in itself shouldn't be a negative. Too long is too long whether it's year 2 or year 20.

How dare you question my amazing intellect, judgement and insight. I invite you to a duel, Sir.

PS Bevo is a spud!

 

[bobs head soup]

How dare you question my amazing intellect, judgement and insight. I invite you to a duel, Sir.

PS Bevo is a spud!

Name the field, I'll be there at dawn

 

[perro_loco]

Name the field, I'll be there at dawn

WO. You buy me a macchiato and I will spare your life.