Coach Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

[Freshwater]

Imagine we won it and he was uncontracted.

I could live with that very easily. In fact, bring it on. We would then have what we want to achieve. Where the negotiations go after are for then, not now.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

As loyal as Bevo is, if a 6 year offer came his way vs say a 1 year extension from us, it would definitely lead to some conversations. The west coast offer would have to be financially significant also you’d think. It gives everyone involved a really good, clean/respectful out if it happens.

If we panic and give him a multi-year extension because of this I give up. But Bevo would be wise to leverage this interest in exactly that way, knowing how much sway he has over the club.

I would have thought St Kilda would still be in his dreams, not West Coast, which would entail a big upheaval for his family. But Ross the Boss is doing such a good job, there's no likelihood of that in the near future

 

[CarnTheScray]

Going through the season with an out of contract coach would be an absolute disaster.

 

[Freshwater]

Going through the season with an out of contract coach would be an absolute disaster.

Why?
Surely Bevo is bigger than some of these players who are in their 20’s? Bevo is in his mid 50’s, he’s already set up for life financially. If in his position he’d in anyway have a problem, he is not mature enough to lead the footy club. We ask players to keep playing on 1 year terms or Rookie contracts. Bevo’s had 10 years of being one of the highest paid people in the country, he’ll continue to be paid well wherever he landed afterwards. He needs to back himself in and just coach out his contract. At the end we’ll re-assess. If he wants to move on, good and if he wants to stay, good. He has always told us he blocks out media talk, he needs to show us this.

 

[Pugz89]

Going through the season with an out of contract coach would be an absolute disaster.

Re-signing an underperforming coach to a multi-year deal would be an absolute disaster.

I see no issue with the club waiting until the bye and assessing his performance, before extending his tenure.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Re-signing an underperforming coach to a multi-year deal would be an absolute disaster.

I see now issue with the club waiting until the bye and assessing his performance, before extending his tenure.

How is Bevo underperforming?

 

[CarnTheScray]

Re-signing an underperforming coach to a multi-year deal would be an absolute disaster.

I see now issue with the club waiting until the bye and assessing his performance, before extending his tenure.

I didn't say we should sign him on. But we have to stick with one: Back him in and sign him up OR let him go and pay him out.

If he was only a few years into the I'd back him in 100%. But he has been there a long time. Ten years.

 

[doggy_dog]

Not a chance we should extend him. He’s earned next year based on our second half of the season but anything beyond that would be premature at this stage

 

[Whoyagot]

Assuming Bevo isn’t offered a contract until the end of next year, what’s the pass mark?

Lot of water to go under the bridge this off-season trade period but I’d think a finals win should be required for him to be able to extend.

 

[Unorth]

Assuming Bevo isn’t offered a contract until the end of next year, what’s the pass mark?

Lot of water to go under the bridge this off-season trade period but I’d think a finals win should be required for him to be able to extend.

Internally, 2022, 23 and 24 appear to be the standard we accept. I don’t think losing yet another elimination final or finishing 9th would change much. Supporters can and obviously do think differently. Some are ok with where we are most probably aren’t. What defines a pass mark in this context, you can real philosophical about.

As for the club and pass marks - As long as memberships and merch continue to sell i think the club would be happy with the predictable product that is Bevoball. Start poorly, win some games in the back end of the season, sell some hope and crash out in an elimination final or just miss the 8.

It would probably take a demand from Bont for the club to act (very unlikely) or Bevo leaves on his own accord for some reason (gives it up, gets poached by a bigger offer etc).

If next year played out the same I assume we offer a one or two year extension. Doubtful it gets to the point where the season finishes and he’s out of contract. One way or the other it will have resolved by then.

 

[Pugz89]

How is Bevo underperforming?

He has won finals in two out of 10 seasons as coach.
I'd say anyone who manages to perform within the top 33% of his department just 20 per cent of the time is underperforming. Especially with the list he has had in the past couple of years.

 

[Pugz89]

Assuming Bevo isn’t offered a contract until the end of next year, what’s the pass mark?

Lot of water to go under the bridge this off-season trade period but I’d think a finals win should be required for him to be able to extend.

I wouldn't expect the club to wait until post season to extend him if he gets a new contract, but i'd be wanting a consistent first half of the season next year. If we are 9-3/8-4 at the bye or equivalent, i'd be happy with that.

 

[FoochPackage]

How is Bevo underperforming?

We back to the head in the sand stuff ?

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Assuming Bevo stays, what else can we support him with that could lead to better results? I get we need some speedy mids and I’m sure milesi is all over it but do we think throwing money at one or two additional coaches - even if it took us over the cap - would be worthwhile given the ages of Bont, Libba and Treloar? I’d love to see us go even harder in that assistant coach space for next year to see if that might get us there.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

He has won finals in two out of 10 seasons as coach.
I'd say anyone who manages to perform within the top 33% of his department just 20 per cent of the time is underperforming. Especially with the list he has had in the past couple of years.

He has made grand finals in two out of 10 seasons as coach.
I'd say anyone who manages to perform within the top 11% of his department just 20 per cent of the time is overperforming.
Especially as he's responsible for the list developing well in the past couple of years.

 

[yebach]

He has made grand finals in two out of 10 seasons as coach.
I'd say anyone who manages to perform within the top 11% of his department just 20 per cent of the time is overperforming.
Especially as he's responsible for the list developing well in the past couple of years.

So by that logic Alan Joyce is the greatest coach of all time?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

So by that logic Alan Joyce is the greatest coach of all time?

Moreso that framing the argument in this way is dumb and calling Bevo brilliant if he had won finals or hopeless because he lost a final without the nuance and the context of the final is dumb, that's the point.

In terms of measuring what he can control, what he's changed over the last 18 months, what's a good predictor for the future, I think Bevo is a good coach. https://squiggle.com.au/power-rankings/

We're certainly not going to move on from him now after we didn't move on from him at the end of last year, giving him a chance, with changes around him, to demonstrate an improvement on the other years, which duly happened (we did win more games this season than in all of the most recent seasons), especially as that improvement is more recent.

 

[Dogs54]

So by that logic Alan Joyce is the greatest coach of all time?

Clarkson won three grand finals for Hawthorn and he ceased in 2021. Was Hawthorn wrong?

 

[yebach]

Moreso that framing the argument in this way is dumb and calling Bevo brilliant if he had won finals or hopeless because he lost a final without the nuance and the context of the final is dumb, that's the point.

In terms of measuring what he can control, what he's changed over the last 18 months, what's a good predictor for the future, I think Bevo is a good coach. https://squiggle.com.au/power-rankings/

We're certainly not going to move on from him now after we didn't move on from him at the end of last year, giving him a chance, with changes around him, to demonstrate an improvement on the other years, which duly happened (we did win more games this season than in all of the most recent seasons), especially as that improvement is more recent.

Agree. But you've been framing the argument that if we had won 1 more game and if he had won x amount of finals and that we're/he's disadvantaged because of the draw etc, etc.

It's quite obvious that you think he's a good coach. You have been apologizing and putting a positive spin on everything he and the club have done for as long as I can be bothered to remember.

Your entitled to your opinion and that's fine. I'd rate at least 5 coaches that made finals as better coaches tactically than Bevo.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Clarkson won three grand finals for Hawthorn and he ceased in 2021. Was Hawthorn wrong?

Clarkson has 13 wins from the most recent 41 games he had coached when he was given the flick.

If we were to demonstrate a similar losing record - hell, if we were to demonstrating even a losing record over a rolling 40-game span at the Dogs, I would jump on board.

Our most recent worst span even if you are selective about isolating 24, or 17 or 49 or whatever games, across the most recent years, is when he went 8 wins, 13 losses across 21 games between Round 11 last year and Round 8 this year. This is an unfair characterisation as it ignores the wins immediately before and after that period, but even for the sake of selectively isolating out his worst football, that's as bad as it gets.

Somewhat ironicially, we even scored 180 more points for than points against despite losing more games than we were winning in that period (though this is not to say that we were above average as we had a somewhat easy draw in that time), but at the absolute worst, we were probably about the 10th-11th best team in the league.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Agree. But you've been framing the argument that if we had won 1 more game and if he had won x amount of finals and that we're/he's disadvantaged because of the draw etc, etc.

It's quite obvious that you think he's a good coach. You have been apologizing and putting a positive spin on everything he and the club have done for as long as I can be bothered to remember.

Your entitled to your opinion and that's fine. I'd rate at least 5 coaches that made finals as better coaches tactically than Bevo.

I'm trying to measure Beveridge by the things that's fair for him to control. He can't control if oppositions kick well at goal, for instance, and a bit better luck for that across the season would have gotten us to the top four. The loss to Sydney when we had in-game injuries was a bit of a bummer (especially at the time people thought it could mean we could miss finals), but many were in the post-match thread talking about how unlucky we were to lose that, because Sydney found a way to kick 16.6 for that game, for example. If we were fair to Bevo in the aftermath of the game, we can be equally fair to the ultimate implications of whether he did or didn't coach us to top 4 by the end of the season.

Many of the things that he can control (like how to set up the team in pre-season, tactically, and decisions of where to play players) distribute themselves randomly, to some extent, across games. I've made this point a million times before, but less more likely to win games in the future, if in the previous two games before that one, we won one game by 10 points and a second by 20, as opposed to losing one game by 5 points and winning another by 55. I'm not saying there's no skill in coaching to a win on game day - if the numbers were +10/+20 and -5/4+0, I think that's fair enough to call the first set of margins better. But not compared to -5/+55.

We had the second-best percentage on the year. I'm not saying it means that we were the second-best team on the year, because it's a somewhat imprecise measurement, because running up scores against non-finals teams isn't really equal to how you measure up in competitive games against other best teams (fair enough). But it's also not a completely worthless measurement and you shouldn't discount it too much, so I would argue that that pushes us down to being the second best team (measured by percentage) to at worst the fourth or fifth best-team on the year. so the fact that it merely manifested itself to sixth on the ladder is somewhat unlucky and, to some extent, out of Bevo's control. Additionally, we were unfortunate to play a team that also had good form in the second half of the year in finals at their home ground (Hawthorn), rather than play a team with patchier second-half of the season form, like GWS, Sydney, Geelong or Carlton, all whom we beat in the second half of the year.

 

[Pugz89]

Moreso that framing the argument in this way is dumb and calling Bevo brilliant if he had won finals or hopeless because he lost a final without the nuance and the context of the final is dumb, that's the point.

In terms of measuring what he can control, what he's changed over the last 18 months, what's a good predictor for the future, I think Bevo is a good coach. https://squiggle.com.au/power-rankings/

We're certainly not going to move on from him now after we didn't move on from him at the end of last year, giving him a chance, with changes around him, to demonstrate an improvement on the other years, which duly happened (we did win more games this season than in all of the most recent seasons), especially as that improvement is more recent.

Literally winning a final is the lowest bar for what many deem is a successful season, hence using that as the argument. It's not dumb at all.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I think Bevo stands a head above the rest with his integrity, he doesn’t approach players still under contract during the season unlike Mitchell and Scott, and others, even though he might have to change this with the ruthless way some clubs go about it.

I don’t think he would ever pull the rug out from Under the Bulldogs, he loves the players and club to much.

 

[ossie_21]

I think Bevo stands a head above the rest with his integrity, he doesn’t approach players still under contract during the season unlike Mitchell and Scott, and others, even though he might have to change this with the ruthless way some clubs go about it.

I don’t think he would ever pull the rug out from Under the Bulldogs, he loves the players and club to much.

This is the big thing these days. It’s all good to come across as a proper club and doing things the right way…but nobody is successful from only doing the right thing all the time.

Maybe we were in the box seat for Barrass, but Hawks swooped (punny). It’s like the Bulldogs are one of those sayings I know that has stuck with me:

Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Literally winning a final is the lowest bar for what many deem is a successful season, hence using that as the argument. It's not dumb at all.

I don't understand this at all. If the finals matchups had orchestrated in a different way and we had defeated an injury-Carlton team kicking 7.19 on the day by 1 point, and then lost by 100 points the following week, it would have been a successful season? That would have reflected better on Bevo as a coach?