Rumour Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

[Anja_Nees]

GWS getting rid of their coach has really turned the club around NOT the four sides left in the finals have all long standing coaches

I think people got very excited when he got them to a prelim last year, but we have no idea what Cameron would have achieved if he stayed. He got them to prelims and a GF so it’s not like Kingsley has taken them to heights he never did.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

I think people got very excited when he got them to a prelim last year, but we have no idea what Cameron would have achieved if he stayed. He got them to prelims and a GF so it’s not like Kingsley has taken them to heights he never did.

Did I imagine the last few years of Cameron’s tenure?

Kingsley has done a good job. This list is talented but nowhere near their 2016 list. These two chokes will sting though

 

[Anja_Nees]

Did I imagine the last few years of Cameron’s tenure?

Kingsley has done a good job. This list is talented but nowhere near their 2016 list. These two chokes will sting though

He made a semi final in 2021, then they started 2022 badly and he was sacked after round 9.

We’ll never know what would have happened if he’d stayed. Easy to believe they might have turned it around.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

He made a semi final in 2021, then they started 2022 badly and he was sacked after round 9.

We’ll never know what would have happened if he’d stayed. Easy to believe they might have turned it around.

I look forward to your Buckley would have turned Collingwood around and McCartney would have turned the Dogs around posts next.

 

[Anja_Nees]

I look forward to your Buckley would have turned Collingwood around and McCartney would have turned the Dogs around posts next.

Buckley might have. They’d played finals three years prior and won finals in each of those years - how do you know he wouldn’t have?

As for McCartney, given we never did anything under him there’s nothing to suggest we would have.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Buckley might have. They’d played finals three years prior and won finals in each of those years - how do you know he wouldn’t have?

As for McCartney, given we never did anything under him there’s nothing to suggest we would have.

Because they’d grown stale and ran out of ideas and were leading quality lists to bottom four finishes.

The teams were in desperate need for a fresh set of ideas and a fresh set of eyes.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Because they’d grown stale and ran out of ideas and were leading quality lists to bottom four finishes.

The teams were in desperate need for a fresh set of ideas and a fresh set of eyes.

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

Richmond played finals three years, dropped out then won a flag in 2017.

Under Bomber Geelong played finals ‘04 and ‘05, dropped out then won a flag in ‘07.

Geelong dropped out of finals ‘15, then last year, and bounced back.

Melbourne made a prelim in 2018, dropped out two years then won a flag.

Hinkley took Port to the top four in ‘20 and ‘21, dropped out, then came back and they’ve made top four the last two.

Sydney dropped out of finals ‘19 and ‘20 and are well and truly back.

In any of the above examples the coach could have been sacked in one of the off years. They weren’t and bounced back.

There’s no way of knowing whether Buckley and Cameron would have turned things back around. I actually think it’s reasonably likely. They were competent coaches.

 

[bigdog54]

So what is the point of the other players on your team, why do they get a free pass?

Blame Naughton for kicking only 3 goals, rather than Marra with his zero goals and paltry 4 possessions.

Don't blame Gallagher for getting only 5 measly disposals in the face of zero defensive attention, blame Bont for not completely carrying the team on his back yet again despite having people holding and blocking him the entire game.

That's a bold strategy, Cotton.

I'm not giving any player a free pass for that performance. We were awful across the board. I just expect better from our more experienced players in a final. Not sure why that's controversial.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

Richmond played finals three years, dropped out then won a flag in 2017.

Under Bomber Geelong played finals ‘04 and ‘05, dropped out then won a flag in ‘07.

Geelong dropped out of finals ‘15, then last year, and bounced back.

Melbourne made a prelim in 2018, dropped out two years then won a flag.

Hinkley took Port to the top four in ‘20 and ‘21, dropped out, then came back and they’ve made top four the last two.

Sydney dropped out of finals ‘19 and ‘20 and are well and truly back.

In any of the above examples the coach could have been sacked in one of the off years. They weren’t and bounced back.

There’s no way of knowing whether Buckley and Cameron would have turned things back around. I actually think it’s reasonably likely. They were competent coaches.

I think the fact that both of them resigned was an acceptance that they weren’t going to be able to turn things around

 

[Anja_Nees]

I think the fact that both of them resigned was an acceptance that they weren’t going to be able to turn things around

In both cases they said it was a “mutual decision”. I don’t think anyone believes for a second either one was going to be coaching the following year regardless.

I would find it very hard to believe Cameron wouldn’t have accepted an extension if it was offered.

 

[Proffessor]

I'm not giving any player a free pass for that performance. We were awful across the board. I just expect better from our more experienced players in a final. Not sure why that's controversial.

It's not controversial bigdog54 , in fact it's pretty mainstream. The reason I'm questioning this position is I don't think it is very helpful for us.

Whilst I do agree that a number of our stars significantly underperformed against the Hawks, that is not where I think should focus our attention. The fact is our stars have been amazingly consistent and are clearly not holding us back. Expecting them never to have a bad game is simply unrealistic.

I would argue that it's the supporting cast that need to improve. Focusing on the experienced players having a bad night unfortunately means we are less likely to address the key problem which is likely to hold us back again in the future.

When have our supporting cast lifted and carried a heavy load and gotten us the W when our key guys were down or out?

 

[cherrypie]

Bont must have been injured, why else would they play him forward for half the game?

Can confirm he was not injured. Overheard the man himself say it during the VFL prelim

 

[Proffessor]

Can confirm he was not injured. Overheard the man himself say it during the VFL prelim

Reason he underperformed is obvious. He had some bloke illegally holding him throughout.

The umpires did nothing to stop this and unfortunately neither did his teammates.

If Gallagher had just laid some heavy blocks and cleared the way a few times he might have even have made a positive contribution to the team on the night.

It’s hard to believe how passive most our players were in dealing with the treatment we were receiving.

What’s that saying about pressure revealing character?

 

[Planet Dogs]

Reason he underperformed is obvious. He had some bloke illegally holding him throughout.

The umpires did nothing to stop this and unfortunately neither did his teammates.

If Gallagher had just laid some heavy blocks and cleared the way a few times he might have even have made a positive contribution to the team on the night.

It’s hard to believe how passive most our players were in dealing with the treatment we were receiving.

What’s that saying about pressure revealing character?

This is on Beveridge. Since 2016 he has had cart blanche on team selection, molding the team's culture, game style, etc.

And guess what? As a passionate Doggies supporter, since 2016 it has been a sh*t ride.

We have never made the top four. Yes, we have made finals a number of times, but each time we have been eliminated in a consistently embarrassing fashion (I honestly would have preferred we didn't make the GF in 2016).

The Doggies under Beveridge have become the most embarrassing unreliable team in the competition. The number of games we loose going in as favorites is a total disgrace.

Enough!

To those still rusted on Bevo supports, please explain why (given the above). Why?

 

[Planet Dogs]

Since 2016 Beveridge has had cart blanche on team selection, molding the team's culture, game style, etc.

And guess what? As a passionate Doggies supporter, since 2016 it has been a sh*t ride.

We have never made the top four. Yes, we have made finals, but each time we have been eliminated in a consistently embarrassing fashion (I honestly would have preferred we didn't make the GF in 2016).

The Doggies under Beveridge have become the most embarrassing unreliable team in the competition. The number of games we lose going in as favorites is a total disgrace.

And please don't blame the players, blame the list. That is a total cop out.

Enough!

As supporters, we need to get angry. We need to put real pressure on the club leadership. We need to let them know that we are sick of the insipid Kumbaya culture Beveridge and the other club leaders have fostered.

 

[bigdog54]

It's not controversial bigdog54 , in fact it's pretty mainstream. The reason I'm questioning this position is I don't think it is very helpful for us.

Whilst I do agree that a number of our stars significantly underperformed against the Hawks, that is not where I think should focus our attention. The fact is our stars have been amazingly consistent and are clearly not holding us back. Expecting them never to have a bad game is simply unrealistic.

I would argue that it's the supporting cast that need to improve. Focusing on the experienced players having a bad night unfortunately means we are less likely to address the key problem which is likely to hold us back again in the future.

When have our supporting cast lifted and carried a heavy load and gotten us the W when our key guys were down or out?

It's not controversial bigdog54 , in fact it's pretty mainstream. The reason I'm questioning this position is I don't think it is very helpful for us.

Whilst I do agree that a number of our stars significantly underperformed against the Hawks, that is not where I think should focus our attention. The fact is our stars have been amazingly consistent and are clearly not holding us back. Expecting them never to have a bad game is simply unrealistic.

I would argue that it's the supporting cast that need to improve. Focusing on the experienced players having a bad night unfortunately means we are less likely to address the key problem which is likely to hold us back again in the future.

When have our supporting cast lifted and carried a heavy load and gotten us the W when our key guys were down or out?

Yep, for us to become a better team we need improvement from the supporting cast.

I didn't say our stars/leaders can't have off games. Of course over a season they can and do. And with improved depth and system maybe we can be less reliant on them over 23 games and maybe even have them primed for the business end of the season.

My comment was that they just can't be no shows in a big final. It's unrealistic to think that guys like Gallagher, juh, vdm, jod etc would perform to a level that'll win that final when the better players aren't. But absolutely, their continued improvement makes us better going forward and that should also be a focus.

 

[Proffessor]

This is on Beveridge. Since 2016 he has had cart blanche on team selection, molding the team's culture, game style, etc.

And guess what? As a passionate Doggies supporter, since 2016 it has been a sh*t ride.

We have never made the top four. Yes, we have made finals a number of times, but each time we have been eliminated in a consistently embarrassing fashion (I honestly would have preferred we didn't make the GF in 2016).

The Doggies under Beveridge have become the most embarrassing unreliable team in the competition. The number of games we loose going in as favorites is a total disgrace.

Enough!

To those still rusted on Bevo supports, please explain why (given the above). Why?

The things you and other anti-Bevo crew seem to be overlooking are the Bulldogs' natural disadvantages.

It’s a super even competition, but the playing field is still a long way from even.

Top four would be great, but it’s harder for us than most other clubs and the Bevo approach has delivered better than any other strategy by a long margin.

Had we played Geelong at Marvel instead of Adelaide Oval, we make top four. Had we had a slightly better draw, we make top four. Had we gotten a slightly better run from the umpires, we make top four.

Yes, Bevo makes plenty of mistakes, but so does every coach.

 

[Philthy1]

I am not convinced either way that we should keep him or let him go, and I think that is a bad position to be in.

I get stats can be used to prove anything but Beveridge's win / loss record is better than Clarkson and Hardwick and comparable to Matthews, Kennedy Snr, Malthouse and Sheedy. It's also as good as it gets at the Dogs with it being comparable to Eade and Wallace.

AFL Tables - Coaches

AFL Tables - Western Bulldogs - Coaches

But our record in finals is just not good enough. Would a fresh voice help? It's not like Bevo is incompetent like McCartney, Joyce, or Rhode.

I don't know what the answer is.

 

[stefoid]

Can confirm he was not injured. Overheard the man himself say it during the VFL prelim

In what context? Did someone ask him why the **** he was playing forward so much?

 

[Butabi Brothers]

I am not convinced either way that we should keep him or let him go, and I think that is a bad position to be in.

I get stats can be used to prove anything but Beveridge's win / loss record is better than Clarkson and Hardwick and comparable to Matthews, Kennedy Snr, Malthouse and Sheedy. It's also as good as it gets at the Dogs with it being comparable to Eade and Wallace.

AFL Tables - Coaches

AFL Tables - Western Bulldogs - Coaches

But our record in finals is just not good enough. Would a fresh voice help? It's not like Bevo is incompetent like McCartney, Joyce, or Rhode.

I don't know what the answer is.

Sometimes coaches can have winning records and still need replacing. Take the Toronto maple leafs for example. Made the playoffs the last 8 years in a row but only made it out of the first round once. Coach has one of the highest winning percentages of all time at the leafs but couldn’t get them over the hurdle.

They are also in a similar place to us with a bulk of cap assigned to a few top players only and having to fill the list with scraps. Have just completed board overhaul and new coach so see what happens.

But maybe Bevo is right to coach us in the regular season but just doesn’t have the game plan/structure to coach a finals winning team.


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[CarnTheScray]

The things you and other anti-Bevo crew seem to be overlooking are the Bulldogs' natural disadvantages.

It’s a super even competition, but the playing field is still a long way from even.

Top four would be great, but it’s harder for us than most other clubs and the Bevo approach has delivered better than any other strategy by a long margin.

Had we played Geelong at Marvel instead of Adelaide Oval, we make top four. Had we had a slightly better draw, we make top four. Had we gotten a slightly better run from the umpires, we make top four.

Yes, Bevo makes plenty of mistakes, but so does every coach.

What a load of waffle.

Geelong would’ve beaten us regardless of location on that day.

Should we erect a statue of Rodney Eade considering he achieved what you consider to be an unattainable feat of consecutive top 4 appearances.

 

[cherrypie]

In what context? Did someone ask him why the **** he was playing forward so much?

He was with family and friends. A friend asked if he was healthy after the season. Bont essentially said he’d heard the media talking about him being injured in the final but he was completely fine. No surgeries planned for this pre-season. Had some ankle issues during the year but that was it

 

[lachy]

GWS getting rid of their coach has really turned the club around NOT the four sides left in the finals have all long standing coaches

It is never just the coach that is the issue. A myth supporters who have never been involved in building a team or coached do not understand.

We did improve this year by adding some quality support in coaching and in fitness. This still requires addressing.

We are re shaping our list to try and not only catch up to the modern game but be at the pinnacle. This takes time.

The four teams left have put a lot of time in the support of their long standing coaches and try develop a team that can stand up in finals.

We are not that far away and need to continue with the additional support to the coaching group and restructure of the team

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Proffessor]

Yep, for us to become a better team we need improvement from the supporting cast.

I didn't say our stars/leaders can't have off games. Of course over a season they can and do. And with improved depth and system maybe we can be less reliant on them over 23 games and maybe even have them primed for the business end of the season.

My comment was that they just can't be no shows in a big final. It's unrealistic to think that guys like Gallagher, juh, vdm, jod etc would perform to a level that'll win that final when the better players aren't. But absolutely, their continued improvement makes us better going forward and that should also be a focus.

How do our even tackle the problem of our stars having a down night in a final?

What went wrong? How do we avoid it happening again? Do we delve into the mental preparation arena?

Remembering that is the sort of path that Adelaide took when they actively destroyed themselves, when a more levelheaded analysis would have revealed they just had a bit of bad luck early in the GF plus got shafted by some poor decisions in the first quarter. As a result, they didn't get the flying start that they desperately needed when matched up against a very strong finishing Richmond team that was always going to charge home.

But nah, the problem was that the team wasn't mentally tough enough, we know how to fix that, call in the so-called experts!


I'm not saying we shouldn't try to improve our stars but you need to be very careful in how you go about it.

It's much easier to deal with improving the supporting cast, and there is likely to be significantly more bang for your buck if we focus our attention there too.

Remembering continued improvement is far from guaranteed.

 

[Anja_Nees]

The things you and other anti-Bevo crew seem to be overlooking are the Bulldogs' natural disadvantages.

It’s a super even competition, but the playing field is still a long way from even.

Top four would be great, but it’s harder for us than most other clubs and the Bevo approach has delivered better than any other strategy by a long margin.

Had we played Geelong at Marvel instead of Adelaide Oval, we make top four. Had we had a slightly better draw, we make top four. Had we gotten a slightly better run from the umpires, we make top four.

Yes, Bevo makes plenty of mistakes, but so does every coach.

Put a different way, if you’d put Bevo in charge of Geelong or Sydney around 2011 I have no doubt he would have been able to do more than he has with us.

Both of those sides have similar advantages over a lot of other clubs - stable clubs, able to lure top end talent off the back of their location, home ground advantage, great recruiting etc.

That’s not to take away from those clubs. It’s just a fact - we have no real home ground advantage as a Marvel tenant and have always struggled to lure big name players. We don’t really have a unique selling point.

That doesn’t absolve Bevo of criticism but it’s worth acknowledging his job is probably tougher than Scott’s or Longmire’s.